Pickling lime

nellie54914 · 04/03/2005, 01:22 AM

I was reading through a bunch of posts today trying to find a good DIY kalk doser and came across some threads about using pickling lime instead of kalk. I was just wondering if anyone in the club has tried that, and if you noticed any differences between that and kalkwasser. It seems like a good $ savings if it actually works, but I'm a bit leary of trying it!

~michelle

HaKs310 · 04/03/2005, 01:24 AM

Pickling lime and kalkwasser are the same thing. It is called pickling lime at supermarkets and kalkwasser at aquarium hobby stores.

z28cam · 04/03/2005, 01:40 PM

Pickling lime is hard to find I usually look at the grocery stores everytime I go. So if your looking good luck

. But I think its easier to find during canning season.

FEEDERFISH · 04/03/2005, 03:28 PM

I use it, try a search on Yahoo for Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime, I bought 5 huge cans of it for 10$ I think It was shipped for 2$ more, it works great

aberg12012 · 04/04/2005, 01:40 PM

I get mine from Festival Foods in Oshkosh. Just picked up 5 bags this winter. I was suprised to see it on the shelves in the winter.

Kalkwasser is simply German for lime. Pet stores and manufacturers such as Kent, capitolize on this, and sell the same thing in tiny containers for much more. Some people feel it's an issue of pickling lime not being as pure as the lime sold in pet stores. Truth is, it's all food grade...

FlipFlops24/7 · 04/04/2005, 02:04 PM

So next big question would be:

Where in the Fox Valley can we find it? I've looked at quite a few supermarkets with no luck. I guess I can just order it online

aberg12012 · 04/04/2005, 02:22 PM

Well, good question. Since I've never looked any where but Festival. I've only had to buy it twice, and from what you guys are saying, I was lucky to find it both times.

I would assume late this summer Festival will stock it.

ReeferAl · 04/08/2005, 07:31 PM

I order it by the case (12 bags/jars) from :
http://store.yahoo.com/mrswages/mrswagpiclim.html
You can also buy them singly there.
Allen

ReeferAl · 04/08/2005, 07:39 PM

Wow! I just checked the website. They have doubled the price. The last time I bought from Mrs Wages about a year ago it was under $2 a pound. Now they are charging $3.85. I heard Ball's has quit making pickling lime. Maybe the lack of competition has driven up the price.
Allen

nellie54914 · 04/08/2005, 08:40 PM

I'm convinced, much cheaper to go this route! My husband doesn't like the idea, maybe I'll just have to buy the pickling lime and put it into the kalk container!

aberg12012 · 04/08/2005, 11:36 PM

Still... 4 bucks a bag. Nothing compared to buying "kalkwaser" from a pet store for 10 bucks for a tiny little petri dish size container! Stop complaining.

aberg12012 · 04/08/2005, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nellie54914
I'm convinced, much cheaper to go this route! My husband doesn't like the idea, maybe I'll just have to buy the pickling lime and put it into the kalk container!

What dosn't your hubby understand? "Kalkwaser" is GERMAN for PICKLING LIME!

Pickling lime is food grade, same as "Kalk" only sold for much less as it's not marketed for "aqurium use."

nellie54914 · 04/08/2005, 11:41 PM

maybe i'll just have to add on to the label..."For pickling and marine use"

aberg12012 · 04/09/2005, 12:00 AM

Perfect.

nellie54914 · 04/09/2005, 01:44 PM

ok, so I made the doser, made up a batch of kalk last night (the expensive stuff, we had already bought a container before I had seen anything about pickling lime), and I'm going to sart dripping it in tonight. My question is, I know it has to sit for stuff to settle, can I make up a separate container and pour that into the doser for the next batch? If I let that sit in another container, and then pour it into the doser, will I have to let it sit again since the stuff settled to the bottom would get stirred up when i transfer it to the doser? Or doesn't that matter as long as most of the stuff that settled to the bottom stays in the original container when I pour it? Just want to make sure I'm doing it right!

aberg12012 · 04/09/2005, 05:39 PM

Exactly what I do. Use a siphon hose and stop siphoning once you get close to the bottom. Then you can drip it right away, as long as the dosing container dosn't have any sediment on the bottom, which would get stirred up. If thats the case, I usually wait about 8 hours and it's fine.

nellie54914 · 04/09/2005, 09:21 PM

That makes sense. So does the calcium level affect fish? Can it hurt them if it's raised too fast? What do you guys keep yours at?

aberg12012 · 04/10/2005, 12:09 AM

Calcium levels aren't nearly as big of a concern if all you have is fish. High calcium and alkalinity levels are needed for many corals, as they use both to build their inner structure. I'm sure you've seen a skeleton of a dead acropora or other sps coral. That nice white structure is made mostly of calcium and KH (alkalinity.)

As for adding a bunch of an additive at a time. It's not recommended at all. Assuming your talking about a calcium or KH additive other than lime water - additions should be made in smaller doses more frequently rather than in one big dose all at once. Especially with KH buffers, as they have a huge impact on PH.

Although I don't fully understand it, the easy explanation is that calcium and KH are a delicate balance with eachother. One affects the other. This is where the 2 part additives and lime water come in. They are "ionically" ballanced. Add equal parts of a 2 part additive to raise both equally. If your system is out of balance you can add more of one than the other. But in most cases, what's really needed is to add equal parts of both to bring them back into balance. And obviously with lime water you just drip it, and adjust the balance with either a 2 part or other sperate additives. But unless things are severely out of wack, I would say just keep driping the kalk, try to replace 100% of evaporation with it initially untill the levels come up to where they should be, and most likely they will balance eachother out. Otherwise it'll be a calcium/alkalinity roller coaster ride.

After the levels come up to where you want them you can probably back off the lime water solution. I personally like to keep the lime water saturated, and just drip less of it, as I also use an auto top off system. But you can also lessen the saturation of the lime water and continue replacing 100% of evaporation with the less concentrated solution. Either way accomplishes the same thing.

For those with heavily sps dominated tanks, even saturated lime water won't keep up with calcium consumption. This is were reactors come in. They use CO2 to lower PH in a reaction chamber that is filled with crushed coral. The crushed coral disolves in the low PH, releasing calcium, KH, and many other trace elements.

Most of us strive for calcium around 450 and KH of at least 10dkh. Give or take. If you have no hard corals you can get by with lower calcium levels. For those with SPS dominated tanks, 450 is probably the lowest they want to go(?)

If you feel your calcium is low, probably best not to go add a bunch of just a calcium additive. Drip the lime water, and give it a week or two. It'll bring up your calcium and KH in balance to where you want them.

Hella · 04/12/2005, 03:12 PM

When using the pickeling lime, how much do you add to a Gal. of water?

cmcgehee01 · 04/12/2005, 03:33 PM

3 tsps. per gallon.

FlipFlops24/7 · 04/12/2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cmcgehee01
3 tsps. per gallon.

I think it more depends on your tanks capacity, and your drip rate (if you are dripping the kalk). I have a 29 gallon and if I used 3 tsps/gal my PH would jump past 8.4 in a few hours!

ReeferAl · 04/12/2005, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Debaser
I think it more depends on your tanks capacity, and your drip rate (if you are dripping the kalk). I have a 29 gallon and if I used 3 tsps/gal my PH would jump past 8.4 in a few hours!

That is if you don't want saturated kalk. The question I have had is, how much does it take to saturate the water? Anything beyond that amount of kalk is wasted (if you discard the solids after each batch).
Allen

aberg12012 · 04/12/2005, 05:08 PM

It all depends on what you want to do, and how much your tank uses through calcification in corals. You can either saturate the solution (add more than 2 tsps per gallon) and even oversaturate it by adding vinigar. Any extra above the saturation level just settles to the bottom, and resaturates when you add fresh water. Then you can adjust by only replacing, say 50% of your reef's evaporation with it, and using an auto top off system as well. This is what I do. The other option is like Debaser said. Figure out how much less lime you need below the saturation to just keep up with your reef's demands.

aberg12012 · 04/12/2005, 05:25 PM

Allen...

Is there any particular reason you discard the sediment? It's actually benificial, as it can be re-disolved. And it also has properties that are believed to precipitate phosphates and other undesireables from your top off water. This, according to Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley. He's got a TON of info on dripping lime water, and I would highly suggest browsing his topics. It will answer alot of these questions with out having to listen to a moron like me try to babble about something I only pretend to know anything about!

FlipFlops24/7 · 04/12/2005, 06:21 PM

by sediments, do you mean the nasty leftover stuff in the bottom of my kalk dripping bottle? So I shouldnt dump that crap out?

04/03/2005, 01:22 AM	#1
nellie54914 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 611	Pickling lime I was reading through a bunch of posts today trying to find a good DIY kalk doser and came across some threads about using pickling lime instead of kalk. I was just wondering if anyone in the club has tried that, and if you noticed any differences between that and kalkwasser. It seems like a good $ savings if it actually works, but I'm a bit leary of trying it! ~michelle

04/03/2005, 01:24 AM	#2
HaKs310 Forever Learning Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 1,241	Pickling lime and kalkwasser are the same thing. It is called pickling lime at supermarkets and kalkwasser at aquarium hobby stores. __________________ IM Fusion Pro 20 Peninsula \| Nanobox Duo Plus M \| AquaIllumination Nero 3 \| XP Aqua Duetto Dual-Sensor ATO \| Eheim Jager 75w Heater

04/03/2005, 01:40 PM	#3
z28cam Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Maywood, IL Posts: 1,373	Pickling lime is hard to find I usually look at the grocery stores everytime I go. So if your looking good luck . But I think its easier to find during canning season. __________________ Hmmm do I buy groceries or coral. Decisions decisions... Current Tank Info: 29gal BioCube

04/03/2005, 03:28 PM	#4
FEEDERFISH Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Waupun, Wisconsin Posts: 1,060	I use it, try a search on Yahoo for Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime, I bought 5 huge cans of it for 10$ I think It was shipped for 2$ more, it works great __________________ --Roads?..... Where were going...... We don't need.......Roads --Doc. Brown Current Tank Info: Custom AO 30 Gal Starphire Display , 2x150DE Hamilton Reefstar - Reeflux 12k / XM 15K, IceCap 430 24" T5-UVL Super Actinic, Aqua C EV-180 w/ Mag 9.5, Closed Loop on a Panworld 40px, Return Mag 12

04/04/2005, 02:04 PM	#6
FlipFlops24/7 I'd tap that glass Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,247	So next big question would be: Where in the Fox Valley can we find it? I've looked at quite a few supermarkets with no luck. I guess I can just order it online __________________ T.J. Current Tank Info: 40g Breeder with 29g sump. 1x150w 10K MH HQI & 2x96w PC actinics

04/04/2005, 01:40 PM	#5
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	I get mine from Festival Foods in Oshkosh. Just picked up 5 bags this winter. I was suprised to see it on the shelves in the winter. Kalkwasser is simply German for lime. Pet stores and manufacturers such as Kent, capitolize on this, and sell the same thing in tiny containers for much more. Some people feel it's an issue of pickling lime not being as pure as the lime sold in pet stores. Truth is, it's all food grade...

04/04/2005, 02:22 PM	#7
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	Well, good question. Since I've never looked any where but Festival. I've only had to buy it twice, and from what you guys are saying, I was lucky to find it both times. I would assume late this summer Festival will stock it.

04/08/2005, 07:31 PM	#8
ReeferAl Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Fond du Lac, WI Posts: 2,040	I order it by the case (12 bags/jars) from : http://store.yahoo.com/mrswages/mrswagpiclim.html You can also buy them singly there. Allen

04/08/2005, 07:39 PM	#9
ReeferAl Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Fond du Lac, WI Posts: 2,040	Wow! I just checked the website. They have doubled the price. The last time I bought from Mrs Wages about a year ago it was under $2 a pound. Now they are charging $3.85. I heard Ball's has quit making pickling lime. Maybe the lack of competition has driven up the price. Allen

04/08/2005, 08:40 PM	#10
nellie54914 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 611	I'm convinced, much cheaper to go this route! My husband doesn't like the idea, maybe I'll just have to buy the pickling lime and put it into the kalk container!

04/08/2005, 11:36 PM	#11
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	Still... 4 bucks a bag. Nothing compared to buying "kalkwaser" from a pet store for 10 bucks for a tiny little petri dish size container! Stop complaining.

04/08/2005, 11:41 PM	#13
nellie54914 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 611	maybe i'll just have to add on to the label..."For pickling and marine use"

04/09/2005, 12:00 AM	#14
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	Perfect.

04/09/2005, 01:44 PM	#15
nellie54914 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 611	ok, so I made the doser, made up a batch of kalk last night (the expensive stuff, we had already bought a container before I had seen anything about pickling lime), and I'm going to sart dripping it in tonight. My question is, I know it has to sit for stuff to settle, can I make up a separate container and pour that into the doser for the next batch? If I let that sit in another container, and then pour it into the doser, will I have to let it sit again since the stuff settled to the bottom would get stirred up when i transfer it to the doser? Or doesn't that matter as long as most of the stuff that settled to the bottom stays in the original container when I pour it? Just want to make sure I'm doing it right!

04/09/2005, 05:39 PM	#16
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	Exactly what I do. Use a siphon hose and stop siphoning once you get close to the bottom. Then you can drip it right away, as long as the dosing container dosn't have any sediment on the bottom, which would get stirred up. If thats the case, I usually wait about 8 hours and it's fine.

04/09/2005, 09:21 PM	#17
nellie54914 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Appleton, WI Posts: 611	That makes sense. So does the calcium level affect fish? Can it hurt them if it's raised too fast? What do you guys keep yours at?

04/10/2005, 12:09 AM	#18
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	Calcium levels aren't nearly as big of a concern if all you have is fish. High calcium and alkalinity levels are needed for many corals, as they use both to build their inner structure. I'm sure you've seen a skeleton of a dead acropora or other sps coral. That nice white structure is made mostly of calcium and KH (alkalinity.) As for adding a bunch of an additive at a time. It's not recommended at all. Assuming your talking about a calcium or KH additive other than lime water - additions should be made in smaller doses more frequently rather than in one big dose all at once. Especially with KH buffers, as they have a huge impact on PH. Although I don't fully understand it, the easy explanation is that calcium and KH are a delicate balance with eachother. One affects the other. This is where the 2 part additives and lime water come in. They are "ionically" ballanced. Add equal parts of a 2 part additive to raise both equally. If your system is out of balance you can add more of one than the other. But in most cases, what's really needed is to add equal parts of both to bring them back into balance. And obviously with lime water you just drip it, and adjust the balance with either a 2 part or other sperate additives. But unless things are severely out of wack, I would say just keep driping the kalk, try to replace 100% of evaporation with it initially untill the levels come up to where they should be, and most likely they will balance eachother out. Otherwise it'll be a calcium/alkalinity roller coaster ride. After the levels come up to where you want them you can probably back off the lime water solution. I personally like to keep the lime water saturated, and just drip less of it, as I also use an auto top off system. But you can also lessen the saturation of the lime water and continue replacing 100% of evaporation with the less concentrated solution. Either way accomplishes the same thing. For those with heavily sps dominated tanks, even saturated lime water won't keep up with calcium consumption. This is were reactors come in. They use CO2 to lower PH in a reaction chamber that is filled with crushed coral. The crushed coral disolves in the low PH, releasing calcium, KH, and many other trace elements. Most of us strive for calcium around 450 and KH of at least 10dkh. Give or take. If you have no hard corals you can get by with lower calcium levels. For those with SPS dominated tanks, 450 is probably the lowest they want to go(?) If you feel your calcium is low, probably best not to go add a bunch of just a calcium additive. Drip the lime water, and give it a week or two. It'll bring up your calcium and KH in balance to where you want them. Last edited by aberg12012; 04/10/2005 at 12:29 AM.

04/12/2005, 03:12 PM	#19
Hella Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Green Bay Posts: 599	When using the pickeling lime, how much do you add to a Gal. of water? __________________ The only problem with people that preach about freedom of speech is they also believe it comes with a license to speak without thinking. Click the red house for my 125 build thread. Current Tank Info: 125 gallon reef Solaris H4, 2x2 frag tank 125 gallon fuge/sump, Lifereef VS3-60 skimmer GEO Kalk reactor.

04/12/2005, 03:33 PM	#20
cmcgehee01 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Plant City, Florida Posts: 280	3 tsps. per gallon. __________________ Charles

04/12/2005, 05:08 PM	#23
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	It all depends on what you want to do, and how much your tank uses through calcification in corals. You can either saturate the solution (add more than 2 tsps per gallon) and even oversaturate it by adding vinigar. Any extra above the saturation level just settles to the bottom, and resaturates when you add fresh water. Then you can adjust by only replacing, say 50% of your reef's evaporation with it, and using an auto top off system as well. This is what I do. The other option is like Debaser said. Figure out how much less lime you need below the saturation to just keep up with your reef's demands.

04/12/2005, 05:25 PM	#24
aberg12012 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,587	Allen... Is there any particular reason you discard the sediment? It's actually benificial, as it can be re-disolved. And it also has properties that are believed to precipitate phosphates and other undesireables from your top off water. This, according to Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley. He's got a TON of info on dripping lime water, and I would highly suggest browsing his topics. It will answer alot of these questions with out having to listen to a moron like me try to babble about something I only pretend to know anything about!

04/12/2005, 06:21 PM	#25
FlipFlops24/7 I'd tap that glass Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 1,247	by sediments, do you mean the nasty leftover stuff in the bottom of my kalk dripping bottle? So I shouldnt dump that crap out? __________________ T.J. Current Tank Info: 40g Breeder with 29g sump. 1x150w 10K MH HQI & 2x96w PC actinics