Clam Question followup...

puntific · 02/10/2002, 10:12 PM

I have been doing some reading and I think I have determined the cause of the death of my beautiful clam: improper acclimation. In a word, when I brought the clam home, I called the store and asked what I needed to do to acclimate the clam properly. The answer was no acclimation was needed. Just set him in. On reading further on the boards and doing searches, it seems that careful acclimation is necessary. Is there a definitive source that I can quote as I return to the LFS to demand my money back? How much responsibility should I be willing to hold?

Thanks,

puntific

Mushroom Boy · 02/10/2002, 11:27 PM

Ouch! They told you no acclimation was necessary? I think pretty much any piece of literature will address the issue of proper acclimation. I'd check in TRA V1, 2, Natural Reef Aquariums... Any of the big named books (which the LFS probably carries) should back you up. Also, research in advance should have forewarned you to the dangers of no acclimation (don't mean to bust your chops, but....). I hope the LFS is at least willing to take some responsibility for this (I would expect at least half compensation). You called and asked them a legitimate question, which any quality store should have been able to help you with. Sorry to hear about your loss!!!

GH Sniper · 02/11/2002, 08:10 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Careful acclimation is important espically for clams. I have even gone as far as to do testing on my tank the day of purchase and compare it to the tank reading of the tank I was purchaseing from to ensure that I was going from the same environment to the next. (Thanks Jim !!)

This is a precaution that I am willing to take in order to ensure survival and compatability of my specimens. You may want to look at simular testing methods going forward.

puntific · 02/11/2002, 08:41 AM

I did read all of Delbeek and Sprung's section on clams. They didn't talk about acclimation. That's why I asked at my LFS. They have seemed pretty competent in the past.

puntific

toptank · 02/11/2002, 07:35 PM

I have a great link by Daniel Knop regarding Giant Clams on my clam page.

Barry

clams page:

http://barryreef.homestead.com/clams180.html

Mushroom Boy · 02/11/2002, 08:01 PM

That really does stink that they told you that. Were they willing to take some responsibility?

smokinreefer · 02/11/2002, 09:42 PM

i agree that acclimation is the safe way to go, but...different strokes for different folks.

i usually dont acclimate, fish, corals, snails or clams that go into my reef. FYI i have a Tmax,Tsquamosa,and a Tderesa.

then again i shop at a good lfs, so water conditions should be quite comparable to mine.

thats not to say i never acclimate tho'...i will if i deem the creature to be extra sensitive...ie blue spot stingray...banded shark and FW stingrays.

just my experience.

puntific · 02/11/2002, 09:50 PM

I went back to the LFS today and spoke with them. They maintain that it could not have been the acclimation that killed the clam. Further, they state that when they bring in there clams, the just stick them in their tanks without any acclimation. It is their belief that the cause of the death of my clam is bristle worms and I need to go on a worm hunt. I shall proceed to do this and see if I can change my fortunes.

puntific

ps. They are willing to sell me my next Maxima at cost but recomend that I go with a cheaper clam after I have caught me a few worms. It's a reasonable response.

Hammer · 02/11/2002, 11:01 PM

No it is not. The worms only eat the dead animals. Not the live ones. And the sheer chance that you happen to have one of the few bristle type worms that eat corals or live animals is not even worth worrying about.
This is yet a second point saying the LFS does not know what they are talking about.
And yes, a few LFS will acclimate temp, then drop in whatever they are selling. And for them, most things are either sold that day, or are dead, and they just claim it from their distributor. So usually no loss to them (depends on distributor on this part).
Do a search under Dr. Ron's forum to prove that bristle worms are not the cause.

toptank · 02/11/2002, 11:08 PM

puntific, sorry to hear about your lose. I think LFS should be responsible enought to question someone regarding the setup before selling them a animal. Such as how long has your system been setup, what is you chemistry, what kind of lighting do you have, etc. etc. Some LFS are in it JUST for the money, no regards to the animals they are selling and that is sad. I wouldn't sell someone a Ultra maxima if I knew they had only NO lights or if they had a fish in there system that they knew had a reputation of nipping at clams.

Also as a buyer, when I buy something I ask about there system as well.

I guess I am from the old school, I accimate everything. If I know a clam is being shipped more than 24 hrs or if the person that is selling me the clam and has had it under VHO, I am not going to throw it in my tank under 400watt MH. Not only do I accimate to water chemistry, also temperature and lighting as well. I might have to shield the clam if he isn't use to my lights for a time period but I would rather do that then to lost a animal.

We have ALL made mistakes but we do learn from them. I have made a few myself, if if someone tell me that they have been in saltwater reef and have never lost anything, I would tell them they are lying...

smokinreefer · 02/12/2002, 12:09 AM

i doubt worms are the cause of the clams death. bristleworms will eat clams that are already on the way out, whether the look like it or not.

unless you already have a good relationship with that LFS, the fact that they will give you your next clam at cost, i think in not so many words they are accepting some fault.

if i were you, i would make sure that your tank and its parameters are all up to par and ready for a clam. then go to the LFS, pick out a nice healthy clam, regardless of price and acclimate it to your tank.

since you now have time to make sure your tank is OK for a clam, do a little research on how to pick out a healthy clam, Knop's book is awesome, and take adavntage of the LFS offer to let you get a clam at cost! get a nice one, regardless of its retail cost.

sorry about your loss, but good luck with your next addition!

Mushroom Boy · 02/12/2002, 09:10 AM

I whole heartedly agree with what Hammer said. If they think that bristle worms are the culprit, then I really think it's time to start shopping for another LFS. Bristle worms are nothing but beneficial to your aquarium (with RARE exception).

jim norris · 02/12/2002, 07:18 PM

Worms---I hate worms! I agree with everybody---The LFS gave you some bum imformation. Always adjust clams to your system just like fish even more so. It is always a great idea like Barry stated if possible find out---lighting, SG, CA, ALK and temp. To just drop a clam into a different tank setup is the WRONG way to get repeat customers. I sorry to hear this story. Clams are special to me.
Jim

jim norris · 02/12/2002, 08:07 PM

Punific,
What size was the clam?

puntific · 02/12/2002, 08:31 PM

I would say 4-5 inches.

jim norris · 02/12/2002, 08:45 PM

A clam that size is one tuff creature. And very $$$!
Jim

02/10/2002, 10:12 PM	#1
puntific Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Portland OR Posts: 68	Clam Question followup... I have been doing some reading and I think I have determined the cause of the death of my beautiful clam: improper acclimation. In a word, when I brought the clam home, I called the store and asked what I needed to do to acclimate the clam properly. The answer was no acclimation was needed. Just set him in. On reading further on the boards and doing searches, it seems that careful acclimation is necessary. Is there a definitive source that I can quote as I return to the LFS to demand my money back? How much responsibility should I be willing to hold? Thanks, puntific __________________ 100 gal reef system w/ 20 gal refugium and 10 gal sump. 400W MH 20,000K + 105 w VHOs 150 lbs live rock, live sand in tank and refugium, filter bag, precision marine protein skimmer, CA reactor. Current Tank Info: 100g w/ 20g Refug. & 10g sump. Rock and Sand.

02/10/2002, 11:27 PM	#2
Mushroom Boy Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,068	Ouch! They told you no acclimation was necessary? I think pretty much any piece of literature will address the issue of proper acclimation. I'd check in TRA V1, 2, Natural Reef Aquariums... Any of the big named books (which the LFS probably carries) should back you up. Also, research in advance should have forewarned you to the dangers of no acclimation (don't mean to bust your chops, but....). I hope the LFS is at least willing to take some responsibility for this (I would expect at least half compensation). You called and asked them a legitimate question, which any quality store should have been able to help you with. Sorry to hear about your loss!!! __________________ Blumenpflücken während der Fahrt verboten! Current Tank Info: Currently tankless

02/11/2002, 08:10 AM	#3
GH Sniper Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Round Rock, Texas Posts: 406	Sorry to hear about your loss. Careful acclimation is important espically for clams. I have even gone as far as to do testing on my tank the day of purchase and compare it to the tank reading of the tank I was purchaseing from to ensure that I was going from the same environment to the next. (Thanks Jim !!) This is a precaution that I am willing to take in order to ensure survival and compatability of my specimens. You may want to look at simular testing methods going forward. __________________ Creating anything I can to make a better reef... :P Current Tank Info: 120G Reef Tank .... boy they do get big

02/11/2002, 08:41 AM	#4
puntific Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Portland OR Posts: 68	Reeding... I did read all of Delbeek and Sprung's section on clams. They didn't talk about acclimation. That's why I asked at my LFS. They have seemed pretty competent in the past. puntific __________________ 100 gal reef system w/ 20 gal refugium and 10 gal sump. 400W MH 20,000K + 105 w VHOs 150 lbs live rock, live sand in tank and refugium, filter bag, precision marine protein skimmer, CA reactor. Current Tank Info: 100g w/ 20g Refug. & 10g sump. Rock and Sand.

02/11/2002, 08:01 PM	#6
Mushroom Boy Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,068	That really does stink that they told you that. Were they willing to take some responsibility? __________________ Blumenpflücken während der Fahrt verboten! Current Tank Info: Currently tankless

02/11/2002, 07:35 PM	#5
toptank Moved On Join Date: May 2000 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,327	I have a great link by Daniel Knop regarding Giant Clams on my clam page. Barry clams page: http://barryreef.homestead.com/clams180.html

02/11/2002, 09:42 PM	#7
smokinreefer Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Burnaby, B.C., Canada Posts: 995	i agree that acclimation is the safe way to go, but...different strokes for different folks. i usually dont acclimate, fish, corals, snails or clams that go into my reef. FYI i have a Tmax,Tsquamosa,and a Tderesa. then again i shop at a good lfs, so water conditions should be quite comparable to mine. thats not to say i never acclimate tho'...i will if i deem the creature to be extra sensitive...ie blue spot stingray...banded shark and FW stingrays. just my experience.

02/11/2002, 09:50 PM	#8
puntific Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Portland OR Posts: 68	I went back to the LFS today and spoke with them. They maintain that it could not have been the acclimation that killed the clam. Further, they state that when they bring in there clams, the just stick them in their tanks without any acclimation. It is their belief that the cause of the death of my clam is bristle worms and I need to go on a worm hunt. I shall proceed to do this and see if I can change my fortunes. puntific ps. They are willing to sell me my next Maxima at cost but recomend that I go with a cheaper clam after I have caught me a few worms. It's a reasonable response. __________________ 100 gal reef system w/ 20 gal refugium and 10 gal sump. 400W MH 20,000K + 105 w VHOs 150 lbs live rock, live sand in tank and refugium, filter bag, precision marine protein skimmer, CA reactor. Current Tank Info: 100g w/ 20g Refug. & 10g sump. Rock and Sand.

02/11/2002, 11:01 PM	#9
Hammer Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Onalaska, wa Posts: 343	No it is not. The worms only eat the dead animals. Not the live ones. And the sheer chance that you happen to have one of the few bristle type worms that eat corals or live animals is not even worth worrying about. This is yet a second point saying the LFS does not know what they are talking about. And yes, a few LFS will acclimate temp, then drop in whatever they are selling. And for them, most things are either sold that day, or are dead, and they just claim it from their distributor. So usually no loss to them (depends on distributor on this part). Do a search under Dr. Ron's forum to prove that bristle worms are not the cause. __________________ "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand" - Homer Simpson

02/11/2002, 11:08 PM	#10
toptank Moved On Join Date: May 2000 Location: San Diego Posts: 1,327	puntific, sorry to hear about your lose. I think LFS should be responsible enought to question someone regarding the setup before selling them a animal. Such as how long has your system been setup, what is you chemistry, what kind of lighting do you have, etc. etc. Some LFS are in it JUST for the money, no regards to the animals they are selling and that is sad. I wouldn't sell someone a Ultra maxima if I knew they had only NO lights or if they had a fish in there system that they knew had a reputation of nipping at clams. Also as a buyer, when I buy something I ask about there system as well. I guess I am from the old school, I accimate everything. If I know a clam is being shipped more than 24 hrs or if the person that is selling me the clam and has had it under VHO, I am not going to throw it in my tank under 400watt MH. Not only do I accimate to water chemistry, also temperature and lighting as well. I might have to shield the clam if he isn't use to my lights for a time period but I would rather do that then to lost a animal. We have ALL made mistakes but we do learn from them. I have made a few myself, if if someone tell me that they have been in saltwater reef and have never lost anything, I would tell them they are lying...

02/12/2002, 12:09 AM	#11
smokinreefer Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Burnaby, B.C., Canada Posts: 995	i doubt worms are the cause of the clams death. bristleworms will eat clams that are already on the way out, whether the look like it or not. unless you already have a good relationship with that LFS, the fact that they will give you your next clam at cost, i think in not so many words they are accepting some fault. if i were you, i would make sure that your tank and its parameters are all up to par and ready for a clam. then go to the LFS, pick out a nice healthy clam, regardless of price and acclimate it to your tank. since you now have time to make sure your tank is OK for a clam, do a little research on how to pick out a healthy clam, Knop's book is awesome, and take adavntage of the LFS offer to let you get a clam at cost! get a nice one, regardless of its retail cost. sorry about your loss, but good luck with your next addition!

02/12/2002, 09:10 AM	#12
Mushroom Boy Premium Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,068	I whole heartedly agree with what Hammer said. If they think that bristle worms are the culprit, then I really think it's time to start shopping for another LFS. Bristle worms are nothing but beneficial to your aquarium (with RARE exception). __________________ Blumenpflücken während der Fahrt verboten! Current Tank Info: Currently tankless

02/12/2002, 07:18 PM	#13
jim norris Moved On Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 760	Worms---I hate worms! I agree with everybody---The LFS gave you some bum imformation. Always adjust clams to your system just like fish even more so. It is always a great idea like Barry stated if possible find out---lighting, SG, CA, ALK and temp. To just drop a clam into a different tank setup is the WRONG way to get repeat customers. I sorry to hear this story. Clams are special to me. Jim

02/12/2002, 08:07 PM	#14
jim norris Moved On Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 760	Punific, What size was the clam?

02/12/2002, 08:31 PM	#15
puntific Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Portland OR Posts: 68	I would say 4-5 inches. __________________ 100 gal reef system w/ 20 gal refugium and 10 gal sump. 400W MH 20,000K + 105 w VHOs 150 lbs live rock, live sand in tank and refugium, filter bag, precision marine protein skimmer, CA reactor. Current Tank Info: 100g w/ 20g Refug. & 10g sump. Rock and Sand.

02/12/2002, 08:45 PM	#16
jim norris Moved On Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 760	A clam that size is one tuff creature. And very $$$! Jim