Need Input Please, Custom Tank

[virex27th]

Hi,

I am fairly new to the reefkeeping. I currently have a nano(10 gallon) but I am thinking of upgrading. I have been kicking around some ideas so here is what I am thinking so far.

1. I like the low and long look and the bowfront look. So I was thinking an acrylic tank with euro-bracing(so no center brace) and nice round corners.
Length - 48-50 inches(leaning toward 50)
Width - 20 inches
Heigth - 12-14 inches(leaning toward 12)

I havent seen any pre-made bowfronts this long and low, I dont see why it wouldnt be possible if the acrylic was thick enough but I dont build tanks so what do I know.

2. False back. I am thinking 4 inches would be big enough to get my hand back there and other equipment I want to hide so that leaves 16 inches for the display.

3. Plumbing/Flow. This is the part I am most worried about cause I have never done this before. I was thinking a center overflow cut into the false back. I figured I would get better skimming off the surface this way. Then the skimmer would be in this compartment? I been reading about skimmers but I am not exactly sure how the tank water is passed thru them. Then the water from the center back compartment would spill right and left. Then I could have more rock and macro on the right and chemical filtration/heater on the left then a right and left return. Then a closed loop with 2 returns.

4. Make my own rock. I want a lot of open space and I have a specific rock structure in mind and I figure the best way to achieve structure is to make the rocks in the shapes I want.

Of course I will keep researching on my own but I would appreciate any comments especially from anybody who has designed there own tank. Research helps a lot but eventually I need someone to bounce ideas off of.

Well I could probably babble some more but this is a good start.

Thanks

[bertoni]

To Reef Central

16" is pretty shallow. You could hide the equipment in a sump under the tank. Same with the skimmer. The center overflow sounds fine to me.

12" is very shallow, IMO. My 29g is 18" and it looks rather shallow.

If you have a space you're trying to fill, those dimensions might be your best choice, but it's going to be a tight squeeze for a lot of animals, I think.

[thouston]

what are you planning to keep in your tank? the reason that i am asking is because if you want to go with a canopy for something like halides in it or alot of vhos then you might want to think twice about the bow front. making a canopy is a real pain in the you know what. i had to search high and low for someone to build me a canopy and let me tell you it was not cheap either. just some food for thought

[virex27th]

Thanks for the input guys here are my thoughts.

Yes 16 and 12 are a bit on the shallow side but I was hoping the length of the tank would make up for the room. But since I will have to have holes for the CLS I guess drilling a hole for drain to a sump wouldnt be that big of a deal. So I could have 20 inches for display if I did that. Is that better? Thats pushing 60-70 gallons, I dont to get to heavy, I dont want to have to figure out how much weight my bedroom floor on the 2nd floor can hold. Here is my reasoning for stretching out the tank instead of up. I want rock along the back then lines of rock coming off the back rock tapering toward the front. This would help divide the tank up and make the rock structures stable since I dont have to stack it up. I wish I could draw and I could post a pic :-). Plus I really like the long look.

I wasnt planning on keeping any large fish, maybe 3-4 nano type fish, 2 shrimp, various snails; no crabs. I dont want a lot of bioload. I want a 4 inch sand bed and lots of open sand for maybe a cuke if I can find a species that stays small, I wouldnt want it to starve.

As for corals, I am thinking mainly softies and LPS maybe a few low-light SPS if I have some rock built up close enough to the light.

As for lights I was thinking VHO, I dont want to deal with the heat of halides and I want a lid to cut down on evaporation. I wasnt planning on any corals up close to the bowfront cause I figured that would be a low light area, was zoning that area off for free fish swim area anyway. So you think the curve part of the canopy is the hard part to build? I was thinking 4 lights would be enough. 2(daylights) 2(actnics or 50/50s).

Thanks guys.

[bertoni]

That sounds pretty reasonable, although 8" of water column after the 4" of sandbed sounds very shallow to me. It will work, but you might need to be careful about overheating. VHO should be okay for those corals.

I don't know about the loading on the floor. You would want the tank along a structural wall, with the tank perpendicular to the joists (if I have the right terminology). I would definitely prefer 20" width to 16", but it is a personal choice.

[virex27th]

Thanks for the input Bertoni.

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of 20 width and probably going up to 14-16 range for height. I know they have standard size lights at 48'' that is why I picked a 50'' length but you want the tank a little longer than the light right? Just makes it easier to build the canopy I would think give you some space at the end of the light, or is it better for the tank to be 48'' in length?


I guess I shouldve asked this in the original post. Anybody know any good custom acrylic tank builders near NC. I have checked around my town and there dont appear to be any. So looks like I am going to have to get this tank shipped to me.

[bertoni]

The hood should be a little longer than the bulbs to fit the mounting equipment, etc. I guess I'd make the tank wide enough to fit the hood precisely, but it's really a personal choice. I'm not all that knowledgeable about VHO, so you might want to do some research on the specifics.

[insanereef]

vho's are perfect. esecialy in tanks under 24 inches deep.
iv restored several bleached rbta's to full color under vho's

as for the tank. let me say this. i have a tenecor and it is a bow front. ... problom with that.. it isnt suppose to be a bow front. the quality is very low so stay away from them and customer service is terriable. living color ( i think it is called) is suppose to be good.

[virex27th]

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Just sent off some info to get my first quote on building the tank 50x20x14, center external overflow. Hopefully the sticker shock wont be to bad :-).

I did some looking around at lights thought maybe I could get some input.

I found these

http://www.hellolights.com/484xcoluaqde.html

260 watts but it is only 7'' inches wide 4 bulbs so I am concerned about the coverage on 20 inches. I could but 2 units in the canopy but that might get a little hot.

http://www.northcoastmarines.com/lig...tems_fluor.htm

Scroll down midde of page to TL-T4854 47 3/8" x 10 5/8" x 3 7/8" unit.

324 watts 10'' wide, 6 T5 HO bulbs so I could have it maybe offcenter a little more towards the back with the corals with the combination 2daylight, 2actinic, 2 daylight, or should I just do every other bulb daylight then actinic?

[insanereef]

. when i got my tank a bigger tank was cheeper because it was standard size. the tank taht was custom and 30 gallons smaller woulda cost 300 bucks more.


anyways, what company did you decide to get a quote from?

[virex27th]

I sent off some info to socalcreations to get a quote. I like their webpage layout and it was easy to request a quote.

I also have references from other people to look at

Aquatic Design Habitats
Myreefcreations
Aquatic Systems Design LLC

[virex27th]

Just sent off info for quote from Aquatic Systems Design.

[Kinetic]

Hi virex27th,
It's always really exciting to see new custom tanks being made. I have a couple suggestions, even though your plans sound awesome maybe some opinions I have may help you out.

Height:
In nature, most fish don't live next to a reef, usually inside or on top. I'd highly recommend a taller tank. There are advantages and disadvantages here. Advantages: More water, more space for corals to grow, less claustraphobic looking, you have options of what kind of fish to keep (more room on top means more room for fish who like to swim). Disadvantages: need stronger lighting for any clams / anemone's on the substrate, though putting all SPS on the tops of aquascape would be fine.

Rock:
Custom DIY rocks are the way to go to get exactly what you want. You could also leave room for a select couple pieces of LR from a local fish store as well. You could get some cool hitchhikers and more "seed" bacteria.

Substrate:
I've read tons about deep sand beds, and 4" may be too deep. Since your tank is 14", that means you'll only have about 10" to work with. That's pretty shallow, and you'll start running out of room on top. Nano fish will be fine, but the corals etc may need more room to grow. You could do a 1" - 2" substrate in the main tank, and put a 4" in the fuge.

bowfront:
in my opinion, my current bowfront distorts things too much. First, it hurts my photos. I'm also a photograph hobbiest, and the bowfront distorts thing in a bad way. Viewing things at different angles is weird too. Also curving acrylic uniformly is difficult, and having curves means more possibility of having distorted viewing. These tanks will be custom, probably made by hand, which would increase the risk of distortion. For really superior viewing, I'd say flat front with curved corners. I agree though, sitting straight on the bowfront is awesome. Also it curves water flow nicely around the front of the tank.

Lighting:
I've never had any VHO's, only pc's and mh. Water evap is going to be inevitable no matter what, even with VHO's. Remember to invest in an auto top off system. I highly recommend Reef Fanatic's Level controller. It comes with two sensors and different modes to use them in. I've had great success! I'm a strong advocate of Metal Halides, especially HQI. They provide great lighting. If you're worried about evap and heat, I'd recommend two 70 watt hqi lamps as well as your vho's, though then you wouldn't need so many vho's. Throw in a nice fan and it'll really not be too bad of evaporation. In my 37 gallon tank, I get about 2 gallons of evap a week, running my fan the heat stays at a constant 78.5 - 78.8 degree farenheight. I have a single 70watt hqi over a 30" tank, along with a fuge light, 55watt actinic pc. So I think 70watt metal halides that are HQI will provide HUGE amounts of lighting without the crazy heat you'd find in higher power mh. Also the HQI provides more light output thus the smaller wattage. Your tank is also pretty shallow, so it will penetrate well. But again, not sure about VHO's, they could be just as good if not better =)

Overflow:
get an external overflow! Looks better for your display area (no crazy box in the middle of the tank. I'd recommend at least a 18" span of notched teeth for the overflow to get good surface skimming.

hope that gave some kind of help =/

keep us updated!

[insanereef]

hey im happy to see someone admiting that they know nothing about vho's/ iv been in many convos at fish stores that go like this
them : generic anti vho pro mh comment
me " have you ever tried them"
them " no but they suck"

alot of people talk out of there a** in this hobby.
i think lighting isnt that important as to the type. basicaly a watt is a watt. in deeper tanks you do need point souce lighting to get the light down deeper. but in shallower tanks. no difference.
iv kept anenomes under vho that others couldent keep under mh or hqi. its more important to focus on water quality.
most people that use florecant style lights are newbs and the real reason things arnt doing well is the water. look into that and youll see its usualy true.

[insanereef]

btw with vho i know it looks best with a 1 to 1 ratio of daylight to actinic and you should alternate them ( day act day act) ho bulbs as far as i know dont have as good of actinics so there may be a better combonation but im guessing it would be the same

[Kinetic]

haha insanereef, I sense some anger towards the vho inexperienced =)

btw any pix of your vho setup? just curious =)

[insanereef]

i got some of my old tank but due to no ro unit i had algae probloms and it wasnt much to be proud of.( altho the things in it were happy )

ill go to storage later and see if i can find the disk with the pictures on it

[virex27th]

hmmmmm.....

Koden you have given lots to think about thanks for all the input much appreciated.

What kind of radius do you have on your bowfront? Do you think the less the radius the less the distortion? And I was assuming it would be curved uniformly. Having a bowfront was the big selling point for me getting a custom tank. Wish I could see some established bowfront tanks. If I went rectangular my dimensions arent far off from a standard 50 gallon long 48x18x13(70 bucks!!!) so I am finding it hard to justify spending the extra money just for a custom tank 10 gallons more than the standard 50 long. I could use that extra money to go halide :-p, buy a nicer sump, maybe a squirt, etc.....

As for the height it is interesting you say longs are claustraphobic thats how I feel about cubes and I think longs are spread out, lol. Guess it comes down to taste.

I hear you about the fish living around and in the reef. I have a pretty elaborate design in mind with caves and arches with lots of openings for the fish to swim thru even a mini-cove. If I can get it to work I think its going to look pretty good. I have been researching DIY rock and some ppl have done some interesting shapes. I have a big piece of DIY rock in my nano now that I bought.

Well I havent got any quotes back yet but I guess I will have to take those into account and decide what I am going to do about the bowfront.

Thanks

[Kinetic]

hi virex,
I'm not sure what my radius is, it's the 32gallon m-tank made by finnex (www.finnex.net). It is only slightly bowed, but even then I get a little distortion. The larger the radius, the less distortion. (flat = infinite radius). It should be curved uniformly, but that's pretty hard to do unless you got some high tech equipment etc. I'm sure the places you got quotes from will have good tools for it though. In my opinion I like flat because you can view it at many angles, and the extra gallons could be made up with higher tank, wider, or longer dimensions. Remember, your tanks getting pretty big, so an inch or two makes a HUGE difference. If you get rounded seamless front corners with a flat front, that would be pretty cool too (which is what I'm getting). As far as I know, larger dimensions to get extra gallons would be much cheaper than getting the front bowed.

Nicer equipment should be a high priority too, less maintenance and better living condition for your livestock probably

Longs are claustraphobic width wise imo. As long as you have enough depth, it's not bad at all. (18" is pretty good =). Length wise, definately not claustraphobic! haha. I want some depth to my tank, my current only has 12" in the display of width. I feel VERY claustraphobic, like all my rock is pushed against the wall. In my cube I"ll be making a "C" formation with my rocks, the opening of the C being in the front. Though you have enough space width wise so it's really just a cube that's LONG. So definately not claustraphobic

your aquascaping ideas sound good too. i know angels / tangs like to swim in and out of caves, so do schooling cardinals / chromis (chromis are aggressive tho).

Keep us updated!

Checkout my 82g link, last post, my tank build has been started!

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...howtopic=70893

[insanereef]

chromis arnt that agressive. damsils are the evil ones .

as for diy rock. sounds like ya know what your doing ^^ if i wasnt so obsessed with the stuff that comes on lr i would do the same thing.

acrilic tanks distort even if flat " supirior viewing" my butt.. all acrilic tanks have a bend in them weather you like it or not

[Kinetic]

that's kind of like saying "all flat surfaces are completely flat" when the reality is, nothing is perfect I'm guessing you're saying glass can be much flatter?

[insanereef]

glass is almost always flatter. i (stupidly) went with acrylic. and DARN THAT THING BOWS but they say its normal.....

so make your selfs happy. unless your doing somthing that need s acrylic go glass.

[virex27th]

So does the thickness of the acrylic decide if a flat sheet bows? How thick was the walls for the tank you had insanereef?

[Kinetic]

yeah you'll get a little warping, but if you get really thick acrylic and don't heat it up with tons of MH and if you use eurobracing, you'll get minimal warping.

what thickness is your acrylic? euro or center braced?

[insanereef]

they are about 5/8ths inch and tank is 60 inches long. 20 wide and 24 tall.
even the acrilic covers on my tank bow ( and these are 1 ft by 1 ft and you can really see the bowing.. and its made of the same stuff as teh tank) " another fine product by tenecor" thats the sticker that is on my tank... if i was them i would not advertise the piles of cra they male

as for bracing. no clue what euro bracing is. heard of it. just never cared to look into it ( whats done is done and dont wanna upset my self by finding out there was a better way)
anyways my tanks top "panel" has about 3 inches running all theway around. and a cener brace.. not sure what you would call that