Attention, Rubbermaid roughneck cans pollute saltwater!!!

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 08:36 AM

I have been using food grad cans with an NSF rating for a while now to mix my saltwater. I still have the old roughneck cans in my garage, and I decided to do an experiment. I used these roughneck cans in the past, mixing more than one can at a time. Sometimes the water in one can would turn milky, while the one next to it stayed perfectly clear, just after dissolving the salt. I know that some people use these Rubbermaid garbage cans. Yesterday I decided to see would happen if the saltwater was left in the garbage can overnight, if there would be an interaction. The water was perfectly clear within an hour or so after the salt was completely dissolved. I left my Rio2500 running in the bucket overnight. This morning the water looks like a gallon of milk was poured into it. Apparently, if the water is used within several hours after being mixed there is no visible sign of a problem. If there is a reaction before it clouds, I have no Idea.
I just wanted to put this info out there to warn anybody using these cans.

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 09:29 AM

I posted this info on another board and a guy told me he leaves mixed saltwater in these cans for weeks without a problem. Go figure

HotHotHot · 12/14/2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve_B
a guy told me he leaves mixed saltwater in these cans for weeks without a problem.

Ditto.

Was the can covered or open?

What was the temp in your garage?

Small children?

I think there was some other factor at work here. I've been using them for years without a problem.

HTH
Ed

Biscutz · 12/14/2005, 09:44 AM

Me too, I have two 38G cans, one for fresh, the other for salt and I have had no problems for over 3 years.

john rochon · 12/14/2005, 09:49 AM

hmmm, now, I understand your concern but your title is stating that they will pollute your water when in fact you have no evidence of that at all.
many people including myself have used these for years and there has been tons of debate on these cans and tests and there is no issues.
theres no way the can would turn your water white overnight. if it was leaching anything chances are you wouldn't know it until you did chemical analysis's on the water. salt on there other hand can stay cloudy/ go cloudy for whatever reason I'm not sure. happens to me with IO

DrBDC · 12/14/2005, 09:50 AM

I use the Rubbermade Brute containers. I don't think the roughneck are supposed to be one of the safe ones.

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 09:53 AM

Brute cans are NSF designated, food storage safe.

elephen · 12/14/2005, 09:55 AM

I mix in 2 26g rubbermaid trash containers and never had anything like that.

Was it brand new and did you scrub it out with RODI water to clean it?

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john rochon
hmmm, now, I understand your concern but your title is stating that they will pollute your water when in fact you have no evidence of that at all.

It doesn't happen in my Brute cans. All of the other variables are the same in both cans.

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 10:49 AM

What I meant to say in my last post was that the only variable was the cans.

john rochon · 12/14/2005, 11:12 AM

sorry STEVE B. has to be something else? don't know what. there was a lot of threads about all rubbermaid products and it came down to basically there all okay. I use both brute and roughneck and no issues. I have has saltwater stay cloudy for days for whatever reason.

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john rochon
sorry STEVE B. has to be something else?

No problem,

I just made the topic to warn people. I didn't know so many people use them and have no issues. To answer some of the questions:
I mix my salt in the house.
I have no kids to screw around with the water.
The covers aren't fastened airtight, the lids are just laying on the top of the bucket upside down.
These cans were purchased for the sole reason to mix water in. Nothing but saltwater has ever been in them.
I was thinking maybe I have a bad batch of cans, but they were bought at different times, so that's not it.
Here is another example why I blame the cans. When I'm setting up my isolation tank, I mix the water in the tank. It comes out crystal clear after mixing every time.

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john rochon
I have has saltwater stay cloudy for days for whatever reason.

Anyway, that's why I switched cans. That cloudiness has to be a reaction, and who knows what is leeching into the saltwater.

Hobster · 12/14/2005, 03:44 PM

OK I am confused (nothing new) are talking about Roughnecks or Brutes?

From what I have read the Brutes are OK. I use one for my lime top off and one for mixing salt.

NoSchwag · 12/14/2005, 03:48 PM

From my understanding, Brutes are fine..

inwall75 · 12/14/2005, 03:54 PM

There are very different qualities of the way these products are made. Food Grade/industrial grade/etc. Some of the plasticizers that are used to make cheap cans leach phosphates into the water. I don't know if this is the case with the non-brute rubbermaid cans or not.

Here's a neat web page.

http://www.americanplasticscouncil.o...ID=313&DID=931

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 03:54 PM

Brute cans are rated NSF, safe for food storoge. In other words that is what you want. I have had problems with the roughnecks.

smleee · 12/14/2005, 04:14 PM

Thanks for trying to look out for us. I'm getting ready to get a Brute can for water changes; I'm fearful of the orange HD bucket leaching something now.....

I think your cloudy water problems could be coming from that crazy thing in your avatar.

eee

tangwang · 12/14/2005, 04:22 PM

I believe phosphate is used as a releasing agent on the non food-grade cans. But the Brute cans are food-grade polyethylene. I don't think I would chance the cheaper cans, such as the Roughneck, no matter what people say....

Matt

EmergencyDpt · 12/14/2005, 04:38 PM

I too use the brute can. I use a 32 gallon on a dolley and it's great. I leave water in it for a week at a time. I always keep fresh water just in case of an emergency. Once I had a spawn in the tank that really scared me. After that I always have fresh water mixed, heated, aerated. I've never had a problem with the brute.

Silencer · 12/14/2005, 04:44 PM

Rubbermaid Roughnecks have been known to have leeching problems. You can find information on this both here and at various other websites or forums.

Rubbermaid Brutes are known to be safe and are the ones you want to use. I at least know that you can store 0ppm RO/DI water for a month or longer without any issues (because the 0ppm RO/DI I've had in mine for a month is still 0ppm).

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by smleee

I think your cloudy water problems could be coming from that crazy thing in your avatar.

eee

I never thought of that. It's part cat part human. He is pretty good at opening doors and such.

BtheReef · 12/14/2005, 06:08 PM

maybe totally off base, but what about bacteria blooms?

cycling tanks have this milky look to them when the bacteria begin to multiply

mold, spores, anthing else in the air may cause this.... i think

SPAMREEF · 12/14/2005, 06:41 PM

i have been fighting clloudy water in my tank for some time now,, when just the outher day i saw something that shocked me . when i looked down into my bucket of new water it looked like it to had "milk" in it! i was using the bucket that my "coralife" salt came in. i use ro water and ofcourse coralife salt mix. what could this cloud be???? is it the salt?? the bucket??? a bloom?? this cloudy water has been a thorn in my sid for almost a year now! seince then i have started using annouther bucket for mixing water,, but will this solve the problem?? my tank params are perfact i mean perfact(not to brag lol) so any ideas guys? if i am not alone with this cloudy water problem please feel free to e-mail me at spamreef@aol.com thanks.

Steve_B · 12/14/2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reef Base
maybe totally off base, but what about bacteria blooms?

cycling tanks have this milky look to them when the bacteria begin to multiply

mold, spores, anthing else in the air may cause this.... i think

My largest tank is 225, so I need big containers for mixing saltwater. I could never use the buckets the salt comes in. I use 55 gallon Brute containers for mixing my saltwater.

This cloudiness problem starts in the mixing container, before the water is put into the tank. It has nothing to do with anything that takes place in the tank.

It appears that some have no problem with the containers, while some do. In my opinion, a chemical reaction between the container and saltwater may cause all kinds of unexplainable problems. I always try to find the source for an undiagnosed or unexplainable problem. I read about people just replacing fish that die, without understanding and fixing the problem that caused the deaths. I think that anything that MAY be a problem should be addressed.

This hobby consists of many variables; so lessoning them by using the best procedures, makes diagnosis of problems easier. I keep fish only, no live coral or live rock. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s the simplest method in keeping large aggressive saltwater fish, but will not work for reef tanks.

My methods would not work well in a reef tank because the super low nitrates and phosphates that are not as much an issue for me. I do monthly water changes to dilute nitrate. I believe that partial water changes are necessary for reef tanks as well, but for other reasons. My methods are considered old school, but it works well for the type of setups I have.

12/14/2005, 08:36 AM	#1
Steve_B Moved On Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HERE, IN A PARALLE DIMENSION Posts: 892	Attention, Rubbermaid roughneck cans pollute saltwater!!! I have been using food grad cans with an NSF rating for a while now to mix my saltwater. I still have the old roughneck cans in my garage, and I decided to do an experiment. I used these roughneck cans in the past, mixing more than one can at a time. Sometimes the water in one can would turn milky, while the one next to it stayed perfectly clear, just after dissolving the salt. I know that some people use these Rubbermaid garbage cans. Yesterday I decided to see would happen if the saltwater was left in the garbage can overnight, if there would be an interaction. The water was perfectly clear within an hour or so after the salt was completely dissolved. I left my Rio2500 running in the bucket overnight. This morning the water looks like a gallon of milk was poured into it. Apparently, if the water is used within several hours after being mixed there is no visible sign of a problem. If there is a reaction before it clouds, I have no Idea. I just wanted to put this info out there to warn anybody using these cans.

12/14/2005, 09:44 AM	#4
Biscutz Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New Port Richey, FL Posts: 586	Me too, I have two 38G cans, one for fresh, the other for salt and I have had no problems for over 3 years. __________________ Ian Current Tank Info: 180g all glass tank w/65g sump 600w 10K MH 280w VHO actinic EC-240 Skimmer Tunze wave box

12/14/2005, 09:50 AM	#6
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	I use the Rubbermade Brute containers. I don't think the roughneck are supposed to be one of the safe ones. __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

12/14/2005, 03:48 PM	#15
NoSchwag Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterbury, Ct. Posts: 2,530	From my understanding, Brutes are fine.. __________________ Keeping low levels of po4 without chemicals since 2005. Current Tank Info: Beckett skimmed, penductor flowed, luminarc lighted, UV sterilized, litermeter dosed, Aquacontroller controlled, SPS dominated, 120 BB tank.

12/14/2005, 03:54 PM	#16
inwall75 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 1,877	There are very different qualities of the way these products are made. Food Grade/industrial grade/etc. Some of the plasticizers that are used to make cheap cans leach phosphates into the water. I don't know if this is the case with the non-brute rubbermaid cans or not. Here's a neat web page. http://www.americanplasticscouncil.o...ID=313&DID=931 __________________ Curt If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Current Tank Info: 7.5g nano, 75g Inwall, 18g nano, 12g nano, 200g prop tank

12/14/2005, 09:29 AM	#2
Steve_B Moved On Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HERE, IN A PARALLE DIMENSION Posts: 892	I posted this info on another board and a guy told me he leaves mixed saltwater in these cans for weeks without a problem. Go figure

12/14/2005, 09:49 AM	#5
john rochon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: canada Posts: 2,082	hmmm, now, I understand your concern but your title is stating that they will pollute your water when in fact you have no evidence of that at all. many people including myself have used these for years and there has been tons of debate on these cans and tests and there is no issues. theres no way the can would turn your water white overnight. if it was leaching anything chances are you wouldn't know it until you did chemical analysis's on the water. salt on there other hand can stay cloudy/ go cloudy for whatever reason I'm not sure. happens to me with IO

12/14/2005, 09:53 AM	#7
Steve_B Moved On Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HERE, IN A PARALLE DIMENSION Posts: 892	Brute cans are NSF designated, food storage safe.

12/14/2005, 09:55 AM	#8
elephen Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: kc Posts: 2,763	I mix in 2 26g rubbermaid trash containers and never had anything like that. Was it brand new and did you scrub it out with RODI water to clean it?

12/14/2005, 10:49 AM	#10
Steve_B Moved On Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: HERE, IN A PARALLE DIMENSION Posts: 892	What I meant to say in my last post was that the only variable was the cans.

12/14/2005, 11:12 AM	#11
john rochon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: canada Posts: 2,082	sorry STEVE B. has to be something else? don't know what. there was a lot of threads about all rubbermaid products and it came down to basically there all okay. I use both brute and roughneck and no issues. I have has saltwater stay cloudy for days for whatever reason.

12/14/2005, 03:44 PM	#14
Hobster Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,444	OK I am confused (nothing new) are talking about Roughnecks or Brutes? From what I have read the Brutes are OK. I use one for my lime top off and one for mixing salt.

12/14/2005, 04:14 PM	#18
smleee Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 1,344	Thanks for trying to look out for us. I'm getting ready to get a Brute can for water changes; I'm fearful of the orange HD bucket leaching something now..... I think your cloudy water problems could be coming from that crazy thing in your avatar. eee

12/14/2005, 04:22 PM	#19
tangwang Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,480	I believe phosphate is used as a releasing agent on the non food-grade cans. But the Brute cans are food-grade polyethylene. I don't think I would chance the cheaper cans, such as the Roughneck, no matter what people say.... Matt __________________ You can knock at any door, but wherever you go you know they've been there before........ Current Tank Info: No current tanks..

12/14/2005, 04:38 PM	#20
EmergencyDpt Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 584	I too use the brute can. I use a 32 gallon on a dolley and it's great. I leave water in it for a week at a time. I always keep fresh water just in case of an emergency. Once I had a spawn in the tank that really scared me. After that I always have fresh water mixed, heated, aerated. I've never had a problem with the brute.

12/14/2005, 04:44 PM	#21
Silencer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NW Chicago Suburbs Posts: 655	Rubbermaid Roughnecks have been known to have leeching problems. You can find information on this both here and at various other websites or forums. Rubbermaid Brutes are known to be safe and are the ones you want to use. I at least know that you can store 0ppm RO/DI water for a month or longer without any issues (because the 0ppm RO/DI I've had in mine for a month is still 0ppm). __________________ Going to Brasil for a while so all aquarium stuff is being sold...

12/14/2005, 06:08 PM	#23
BtheReef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 173	maybe totally off base, but what about bacteria blooms? cycling tanks have this milky look to them when the bacteria begin to multiply mold, spores, anthing else in the air may cause this.... i think __________________ -Brandon Of all the things I've lost... I can't remember what I miss the most. Current Tank Info: 75 gallon reef with 30 gallon refugium

12/14/2005, 06:41 PM	#24
SPAMREEF Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: RHODEISLAND Posts: 61	i have been fighting clloudy water in my tank for some time now,, when just the outher day i saw something that shocked me . when i looked down into my bucket of new water it looked like it to had "milk" in it! i was using the bucket that my "coralife" salt came in. i use ro water and ofcourse coralife salt mix. what could this cloud be???? is it the salt?? the bucket??? a bloom?? this cloudy water has been a thorn in my sid for almost a year now! seince then i have started using annouther bucket for mixing water,, but will this solve the problem?? my tank params are perfact i mean perfact(not to brag lol) so any ideas guys? if i am not alone with this cloudy water problem please feel free to e-mail me at spamreef@aol.com thanks.