My new striated angler changing color

woven1web · 01/23/2006, 03:54 PM

I bought a striated angler a week ago, and he was more of a pale green color, with less distinct dark stripes. It appears now that the more distinct stripes are becoming more apparent on the top of his head?? Is this normal

Petstorejunkie · 01/23/2006, 09:35 PM

generally most fish will change color depending on several factors, light, (day night) tamperature, mood, tankmates, etc. it is generally normal and is nothing to worry about.

warren4066 · 01/23/2006, 11:06 PM

i agree, they tend to change colors depending on their mood swings.

woven1web · 01/24/2006, 06:34 AM

Well he died this morning. He was gaping at the bottom and not interested in feeding. He then just starting swimming, like he was in a spasm. He was swimming on his side, upside down, and then he sank to the bottom... and died... If I go with another frogfish, where is the most reputable place to get one online. I don't think I will mess with the LFS on the next frogfish purchase.

Going to wait a couple weeks though..

Petstorejunkie · 01/24/2006, 09:39 AM

hmmm, sounds like a crummy acclimation to me. did you drip acclimate for several hours? and did you check temperature, salinity, and pH before releasing him? did you use a net or a cup?

if you are looking for a good place to buy livestock online i have heard good things about liveaquaria. i have never ordered from the net because i think it is very important to SEE a fish before i put any money into it. plus with my crazy achedule i would be afrais that the box and i would arrive home at different times.

warren4066 · 01/24/2006, 10:09 AM

check your parameters if they are okay.

woven1web · 01/24/2006, 12:17 PM

I dripped him for about one hour and then I added him into the tank with a cup. I know I should check the parameters of the tank. What I did is took som of the water out of my 75 gallon reef tank and put it in the 30 gallon tank, but I did not check the parameters first... I figured that if my 75 gallon reef tank is thriving and has been set up for over 3 years that the parameters would be okay... Well maybe not. Will check and get back.. I know that all of the parameters are important, but I heard nitrate levels are crucial, and you want those at zero..

Monkeyfish · 01/24/2006, 12:37 PM

See if the LFS you got him from runs copper in their tanks. Frogfish are very sensetive to copper and this may have caused his demise.

Petstorejunkie · 01/25/2006, 10:37 PM

very true, although i dont know if the copper would have cause devistating results such as these this quick. generally if a fish is copper sensitive you will see them move off of food, and then after several weeks die.
if you pulled the water from your reef tank and you do religous water changes like reefers do, then your water should be okay. many lfs s keep their salinity at 1.014, and to get it up to 1.023-25 it should take you several hours. if this part of the process is done too quickly, that can kill a fish. we all own a hydrometer, and it takes less than 10 seconds to read it, so use it. i just use the hight tech thermometer located in my finger to match temperature, and when it is a particularly delicate fish (such as an angler, or seahorses, or a fu man chu, i will also check the pH to make sure they match. acclimation and transport is where most of the industries' fish loss happens, whether it is on the way to the wholesaler, retailer, or into your aquarium at home.

sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, hopefully when you try your next one it will go more smoothly.,

uberfugu · 01/26/2006, 09:43 AM

This has happened to many frogfish keepers. Death within a few days.
From my experience and others (LisaD, Scott Michael), Anglers come in with a variety of parasites and hitchhiking bacteria. There is a link in the Forgfish Files to a document where several wild-collected A. striatus were infected with a Mycobacterium species. There is the possibility that Vibrio may also come in on these guys. Both bacteria are difficult to treat in fishes and require strong, difficult-to-get-without-a-prescription antibiotics. Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium can also be present and difficult to detect on frogfishes.

I think that it is very important to quarantine and prophylactically dip your new frogfishes. The stress and trauma that a fish goes through from collection to your tank is incredible. Ammonia spikes, low O2 levels, varying temperature and salinity levels can all contribute to activation of dormant or controlled levels of pathogens.

Monkeyfish · 01/26/2006, 10:42 AM

Uberfugu - "...and prophylactically dip your new frogfishes. " What kind of dip are you recommending?

uberfugu · 01/26/2006, 07:35 PM

I've been using a malachite green/formalin combo. concentrations of .05mg/l and 15mg/l respectively (rid-ich+/kordon). 30 minute dips once a week for the four weeks in QT.

I also run a constant level of metronidazole or 5-nitroimidazole for a few weeks in the QT tank.

Seems to work with Histiophryne anglers which seem very sensitive to protozoal attacks. But I've been having problems with Antennatus anglers which have been succumbing to bacterial infections.

Petstorejunkie · 01/26/2006, 09:11 PM

hmmm. very interesting information!
i have never had such problems with my anglers, but it sounds, uberfugu, like you have come up with some nifty QT solutions

01/23/2006, 03:54 PM	#1
woven1web Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Smithfield, Va. Posts: 82	My new striated angler changing color I bought a striated angler a week ago, and he was more of a pale green color, with less distinct dark stripes. It appears now that the more distinct stripes are becoming more apparent on the top of his head?? Is this normal

01/24/2006, 12:37 PM	#8
Monkeyfish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Long Island (NY) Posts: 4,077	See if the LFS you got him from runs copper in their tanks. Frogfish are very sensetive to copper and this may have caused his demise. __________________ Eric "One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not." Current Tank Info: Taking a break

01/26/2006, 10:42 AM	#11
Monkeyfish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Long Island (NY) Posts: 4,077	Uberfugu - "...and prophylactically dip your new frogfishes. " What kind of dip are you recommending? __________________ Eric "One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not." Current Tank Info: Taking a break

01/23/2006, 09:35 PM	#2
Petstorejunkie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 350	generally most fish will change color depending on several factors, light, (day night) tamperature, mood, tankmates, etc. it is generally normal and is nothing to worry about.

01/23/2006, 11:06 PM	#3
warren4066 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 181	i agree, they tend to change colors depending on their mood swings.

01/24/2006, 06:34 AM	#4
woven1web Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Smithfield, Va. Posts: 82	Well he died this morning. He was gaping at the bottom and not interested in feeding. He then just starting swimming, like he was in a spasm. He was swimming on his side, upside down, and then he sank to the bottom... and died... If I go with another frogfish, where is the most reputable place to get one online. I don't think I will mess with the LFS on the next frogfish purchase. Going to wait a couple weeks though..

01/24/2006, 09:39 AM	#5
Petstorejunkie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 350	hmmm, sounds like a crummy acclimation to me. did you drip acclimate for several hours? and did you check temperature, salinity, and pH before releasing him? did you use a net or a cup? if you are looking for a good place to buy livestock online i have heard good things about liveaquaria. i have never ordered from the net because i think it is very important to SEE a fish before i put any money into it. plus with my crazy achedule i would be afrais that the box and i would arrive home at different times.

01/24/2006, 10:09 AM	#6
warren4066 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 181	check your parameters if they are okay.

01/24/2006, 12:17 PM	#7
woven1web Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Smithfield, Va. Posts: 82	I dripped him for about one hour and then I added him into the tank with a cup. I know I should check the parameters of the tank. What I did is took som of the water out of my 75 gallon reef tank and put it in the 30 gallon tank, but I did not check the parameters first... I figured that if my 75 gallon reef tank is thriving and has been set up for over 3 years that the parameters would be okay... Well maybe not. Will check and get back.. I know that all of the parameters are important, but I heard nitrate levels are crucial, and you want those at zero..

01/25/2006, 10:37 PM	#9
Petstorejunkie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 350	very true, although i dont know if the copper would have cause devistating results such as these this quick. generally if a fish is copper sensitive you will see them move off of food, and then after several weeks die. if you pulled the water from your reef tank and you do religous water changes like reefers do, then your water should be okay. many lfs s keep their salinity at 1.014, and to get it up to 1.023-25 it should take you several hours. if this part of the process is done too quickly, that can kill a fish. we all own a hydrometer, and it takes less than 10 seconds to read it, so use it. i just use the hight tech thermometer located in my finger to match temperature, and when it is a particularly delicate fish (such as an angler, or seahorses, or a fu man chu, i will also check the pH to make sure they match. acclimation and transport is where most of the industries' fish loss happens, whether it is on the way to the wholesaler, retailer, or into your aquarium at home. sorry to hear you had such a bad experience, hopefully when you try your next one it will go more smoothly.,

01/26/2006, 09:43 AM	#10
uberfugu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oak/SF Bay Area Posts: 358	This has happened to many frogfish keepers. Death within a few days. From my experience and others (LisaD, Scott Michael), Anglers come in with a variety of parasites and hitchhiking bacteria. There is a link in the Forgfish Files to a document where several wild-collected A. striatus were infected with a Mycobacterium species. There is the possibility that Vibrio may also come in on these guys. Both bacteria are difficult to treat in fishes and require strong, difficult-to-get-without-a-prescription antibiotics. Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium can also be present and difficult to detect on frogfishes. I think that it is very important to quarantine and prophylactically dip your new frogfishes. The stress and trauma that a fish goes through from collection to your tank is incredible. Ammonia spikes, low O2 levels, varying temperature and salinity levels can all contribute to activation of dormant or controlled levels of pathogens.

01/26/2006, 07:35 PM	#12
uberfugu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Oak/SF Bay Area Posts: 358	I've been using a malachite green/formalin combo. concentrations of .05mg/l and 15mg/l respectively (rid-ich+/kordon). 30 minute dips once a week for the four weeks in QT. I also run a constant level of metronidazole or 5-nitroimidazole for a few weeks in the QT tank. Seems to work with Histiophryne anglers which seem very sensitive to protozoal attacks. But I've been having problems with Antennatus anglers which have been succumbing to bacterial infections.

01/26/2006, 09:11 PM	#13
Petstorejunkie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 350	hmmm. very interesting information! i have never had such problems with my anglers, but it sounds, uberfugu, like you have come up with some nifty QT solutions