Unwanted Nitrates...Water Keeper thoughts? :)

[JRPhd]

My tank has been up for 4-5 months now and ever since my cycle ended, I have always had about 5ppm of No3 (but interestingly never had any significant algae bloom). Along with my crew of a few micro hermits, nass snails, and cerith's, I have added one fish (~2� CB butterfly) and he's been the sole occupant for about a month. I feed him ~a dime size chunk of mysis 2x per day. He doesn't get to all of it as some floats to the bottom and he's kinda picky once it hits the sand

Anyhoo, I do a 12.5% water change per week (RO water with no testable nitrates), which includes every other week siphoning sediment out of my shallow sand bed (~2inches). I also routinely blow crap off my LR. I also have a DIY HOT fuge with a double softball size clump of chaeto. In the fuge I also run a Marineland filter with carbon that's changed out every 3 weeks.

Yesterday did a 15% change and did a thorough sand bed cleaning. Checked nitrates today and they are up to 10ppm! I want to add some LPS, but am concerned that I can’t keep nitrates down even with such a small bioload.

Why?
Too much uneaten food?
Aggravating the send bed too much?
I know large water changes will drop the No3 level, but I'm sure they'll jump back up if I don't change my husbandry somehow. My skimmer is a highly revered brand, but it pulls only a 1/4 cup of wet skimmate a week. Is that the problem?

For those of you who know a little about Greek mythology: Some days I feel Promethius is hiding somewhere in the back of my LR and every night he's "providing" organics, and regenerating by day, only to expel more organics the next night, etc.

Thanks all,
Jon

[idua]

Skim wet and limit feeding. I would slowly decrease the feeding from twice a day to once a day and after a while you may want to try every other day, and less food as well.

[JRPhd]

Ok, that's probably a good start.
I actually do skim wet and get 1/4 of skimmate a week, and still not sure if this is enough or if my skimmer is inefficient.

Just concerned that if I cut down on feeding, he'll only get 3-4 good pieces of mysis per day. Is that acceptable for a growing CBB? I don't think there are any feather dusters left for him to munch, but maybe he can find stuff in the rocks.
J

[JRPhd]

other ideas? I still can't figure out why my nitrates have never gone below 5ppm especially since there was a period of almost 2 months after the rock had been cycled where no nutrients were added to the tank.

[bheron]

1/4 cup of skimmate is pretty low. i what's your bioload (livestock). I also second the feeding question.

finally, do you use macro algae? thats not the problem, of course, but will help.

[mg426]

Any chance you have some bio balls or bio wheels Still installed??
Also A DSB really helps a lot. What kind of skimmer????

[mg426]

Sorry Aqua c must ahve missed it before

[idua]

The Remora may be fine right now but if you plan on adding more fish you may want to consider upgrading it in the near future. Despite manufacturer recommendations/guidelines I probably would not use it on anything bigger than a 25-30 gallon tank and that would still depend on bio load.

[Fred_J]

Are you removing the nylon screw and using a brush to clean up the skimmer. Mine did wonders after a good cleaning.
Fred

[Steffish]

I believe that if you keep stirring up the sand bed the nitrates will rise. Everything that is trapped in it will be released into the water column.

[pro99line]

Mine has been at 20 for 1 year now and everything has been fine. Mine tank is mainly softie and lps.

[JRPhd]

Fred J, yeah I remove the nylon screw and clean the "spray nozzle" every 3 weeks or so. Otherwise, I don't clean any of the chambers or anything. Do you? I clean my PH's (including the MJ-1200 attached to my skimmer) every month or so as well.

Idua, have to say that's the first time I've heard the Remora being inefficient for smallish tank sizes (20-40). What would you recommend otherwise?

Steffish, I'm thinking I agree with you on that one. I'm running a shallow sand bed here, and not sure the best way to take care of it. Right now I guess I'm treating it more like a bare bottom, trying to keep nutrients out of the sand by vacuuming it routinely. And stirring up is releasing crap into the water column, and my % of water changes isn't enough to get all that stuff out.

I've started to feed the CBB 2-3 small mysis 2x a day and he gobbles them up in ~2 minutes. Will just keep monitoring him to ensure he doesn't starve.

Jon

[Amphiprion]

With a ssb, you need a good deal of current over it with as much diversity in it as possible (may not be as effective as a dsb, but it will keep it cleaner and from producing as much nitrate). Basically, treat it as if it were a dsb. I agree on the water change percentages. If you want any real effect on NO3, you need to do larger water changes. Other than that, don't be entirely defeated by nitrate if you can't get rid of it. While it is optimal to be undetectable, the levels that you stated would not be enough to be a detriment to anything you could be trying to keep. Just continue what you are doing and keep them as low as you can for your particular tank.

[JRPhd]

I have some good current. As far as diversity, all I got is nassarius snails and hermits, and I don't think the latter sifts the sand all that well. Stars have not been recommended. Any other ideas? Also, I never used live sand, only a good deal of LR, which I thought would seed the sand. Is it possible the sand isn't seeded enough yet. It's been about 3 months.
thnx
J

[JRPhd]

recommended "diversity" in the sand bed for a 40g?

[JRPhd]

also, would it be unwise to add some live sand now for denitrification, or just wait the seeding process out.

[Silverado]

I also was having a big problem with nitrates.

I took a large trash can and mixed up some water. I heated the water to tank temperatures, and used the trash can for a water swap. I used a piece of hose and made a siphon into the trash container. I used a pump to pump water back into the fish tank.

I decreased my nitrates to almost 0 in about two days of letting the water circulate. After the nitrates were lowered, I through out the water in the trash can.

Works by diluting the nitrates over a short time. Safer than doing a large water change.

All worked great with no loses.

Hope this helps.

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Jon,

That is one risk one takes with a shallow sandbed. I'm not sure why but in some tanks the LR cannot reduce nitrate without assistance from a DSB. That is one of the reasons I still advocate their use.

I think that skimmer needs some fine tuning or better placement. Anthony Calfo suggest shortening the intake tube on HOB skimmers. He feels pulling water near the surface improves results. Here are his other Tips.

I really see no problem in increasing the water change volume. Try a few 8 gallon changes to see if that helps matters.

Lastly, that copper banded may bother your corals. Although better behaved than most butterflies they still may pick at corals and injure them.

[Fred_J]

JRPhd You are cleaning it better than I am. I did not mean any anything about cleaning past the screw, it's just I've run into several people that did not know about it.
Fred

[JRPhd]

Silverado, that seems like a bright idea. What's that line? the best way to remove pollution is through dilution, or something like that .

Ahh, Mr. Keeper, or is it Dr. Keeper. I figured the SSB might be an issue. I read much of Calfo's post, and for the HOB Remora, the only option to get better skimmate production is as you said, get the PH closer to the surface. Those pre-skimmers are way too chunky, so not an option.

As for the CBB, he's one of the family now, so if/when I get corals, he will be given certain allowances , not unlike the cat we keep despite her peeing on the rug all the time .

J

[Fred_J]

I agree with JRPhd about the add-on the pre skimmer is installed by two plastic screws that tighten to the PH. It is almost impossible to get them properly installed. Avery poor design.

Fred