temp in ocean vs. aquarium

Sooner · 02/21/2006, 08:26 AM

here's a thread for some 'know-it-alls' to shed some light on a question I've had for a while.

Everything I've seen says that in the ocean the temp. is stable at 74. Now, obviously this depends on where, but I'm thinking mainly in the Pacific Islands (Fiji, the Great Barrier, etc). Granted there may be some slight differences. But I've never heard of a coral reef thriving in anything other than that.

Next, I'm reading and seeing info that says that ONE of the reasons that coral reefs are dying are because of global warming, that the temperature used to be 74 but has raised to 75 over the last few years causing reefs to die off.

Okay...that being said:

Now, I don't know about you, but I've been seeing people say to keep your aquarium 75-77, and still others will say 78-80. Whatever the case....there is obviously a big difference here between the aquarium and the ocean. But if corals can stay alive in an aquarium at 78 or 80, why is it they can blame coral reef death on a temperature swing - that is much more gradual than any in a home aquarium - of one degree?

rsteagall · 02/21/2006, 08:50 AM

I'm not a know it all by any means, but I would like to place a well educated guess and pose some mroe questions. First off you'd need to know where the 74F is measured at. With that being said, I doubt they are taking measurements from the shallower waters where coral reefs are found around (65ft on the outter edges of the Great Barrier reef). The ocean's average depth is 12,200 Feet with the deepest point being 36,198 Feet. Shallower waters would definitely be warmer than deeper water, thus the discrepancy you speak of.

adtravels · 02/21/2006, 08:56 AM

I have posted a thread on this topic before
I live and dive in thailand (andaman and gulf) on a regular basis
the lowest temp I have recorded on my very accurate dive computer is 28 degrees celcius and the highest 31

you do the maths for farenheit but thats high
the reefs were healthy and thriving the 28 degrees was at 25 metres depth

My tank is at 28 degrees and doing very well thank you.

Sooner · 02/21/2006, 08:56 AM

The specific recollection I'm speaking of was in an I-Max film on the Coral Reef and also on the educational portion of the Finding Nemo DVD.

So..those types of specifics are not mentioned, but I did get the idea that it was temperature among the reef itself.

dhoch · 02/21/2006, 09:07 AM

Sooner,

Typically when doing generic "ocean temp" measurements it's in large open water, that's where theoretically the temp is most stable, so you would be most likely to measure global changes.

On the reef temps can be pretty dynamic depending on time of day, and actually location of the reef.

Dave

adtravels · 02/21/2006, 09:26 AM

my guess at why the reefs are dying/in trouble is that milloins of tons of plastic, pesticides, oil derivatives etc etc etc are being dumped into the oceans on a regular basis.
the worlds oceans are massive but so are seven billion humans with their lives to get on with, some less scrupulous than others.

this may be the cause but there is no forthcoming solution.
just an opinion the beauty of forums

DrBDC · 02/21/2006, 09:28 AM

A reef tank should have a temperature range of 81-84.

From Marine Invertebrates by Dr. Shimek page 15:

Most coral reefs have temperatures that range between 78 and 86. The average temp. of about 1000 coral reefs spread throughout the world is about 81. Virtually all coral reef animals will do best within this range and I consider the temperature range of 81-84 as the optimal and normal temperature to maintain all reef animals.

lepete · 02/21/2006, 10:16 AM

The key is consistency.

This site list a few weather pontoon along the GBR.

http://www.aims.gov.au/pages/facilit...ies-index.html

The max water temp is 84F. - summer
The min water temp is 71F. - winter

Daily fluxuation is 0.5C.

The temperature are measured at 10m (30 feet) below the pontoon.

Anemonebuff · 02/21/2006, 10:33 AM

I keep mine at 78-80 fall/winter. 80-82 spring/summer, sometimes a 85-86 degree spike in the summer.

brian3 · 02/21/2006, 10:56 AM

The Florida Keys are in the upper 60's in the winter and survived for thousands of years.

Meloco14 · 02/21/2006, 11:04 AM

I was diving in Fiji this past January...water temp 81 down at 80 feet, 82-83 at the surface. Majority of acro's and other stonies are at about 30 feet, in the 82 degree range. In 2004 I dove in Kosrae, Micronesia. Water temp 83-85. One of the best (if not the best) surviving hard coral reefs in the world. At low tide I would walk out in the flats and the water was literally burning my feet since it was so shallow and warm, and I saw a bunch of small acro and encrusting hard coral species growing in this very hot water, exposed to noonday sun only 5 degrees above the equator and partially out of water. This above all else proved to me how resilient these corals can be. As mentioned before, I think the key for us is to maintain stability, not a specific temperature. Personally, I keep my tanks around 78, even though I have first hand proof that in the wild they can and do live in warmer water. My simple reason for keeping the temp a bit lower is for less evaporation. But I know there are people who keep tanks at 80+ degrees with no problems. My father kept a beautiful 180g FOWLR for years at 82. So to answer the OP, the temp you read is probably average over depths and a large area. Specifically, Fiji is a huge group of islands, so when you read a temp for Fiji you have no idea where in Fiji they may be talking about. As far as higher temps causing reefs to die, this is still largely in debate. To most people it does indeed seem like this is the case, however there are also many reefs that have grown due to increasing water temps, and the simple truth is water temps have been rising over the last thousand years. The whole global warming thing is something we definitely don't want to get into. For our home aquariums, IMO any temp between 76-82 is fine, as long as you can keep it stable. And seasonal differences is okay, as many reefs in the wild experience seasonal water temp changes, but then again a lot of reefs don't experience them, due to currents or location relative to the equator. So don't stress about it one way or the other. HTH

jimbo045 · 02/21/2006, 11:38 AM

I like the 75-79, but most times 75-77. JD

moonpod · 02/21/2006, 12:19 PM

Intresting. According to Walt Smith, the areas where he has his stuff (Tonga and Fiji I believe) the water temp where the corals are collected and propogated is in the high 70s. They have dieoffs when the water hits the 80s. Most likely is that the animals can adapt and the key is temp stability.

DrBDC · 02/21/2006, 01:29 PM

That must be a refridgerated section that Meloco14 wasn't diving at and NORA isn't allowed to go!

Meloco14 · 02/21/2006, 07:55 PM

Well I can't speak for Tonga, but Fiji is a very large area so maybe Walt Smith's operation is in an area fed by a cooler current of water or something. I wouldn't find it hard to believe if it was 78-79, but much lower then that and either it's down at depth or there's a current of colder water coming through. Also might depend on time of year. When I was there it was the middle of their summer, but they said the water continues to get warmer until April. So the temp potentially gets up to 83-85. Not sure how cold it gets in their winter, maybe down to 78 or so.

DrBDC · 02/21/2006, 08:02 PM

Here is a great article about temps and stability.

http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php

DaveG99 · 02/22/2006, 06:53 PM

I was just in the keys last weekend and the water was 72 degrees. That is pretty cold. And I have also been in the keys as well as the virgin Islands and jamaica and cayman Islands and mexico and many more places when the water temp was 85 degrees or even a bit higher. So the answer is coral can grow in any where from 70-90 degree water.

02/21/2006, 08:26 AM	#1
Sooner Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 163	temp in ocean vs. aquarium here's a thread for some 'know-it-alls' to shed some light on a question I've had for a while. Everything I've seen says that in the ocean the temp. is stable at 74. Now, obviously this depends on where, but I'm thinking mainly in the Pacific Islands (Fiji, the Great Barrier, etc). Granted there may be some slight differences. But I've never heard of a coral reef thriving in anything other than that. Next, I'm reading and seeing info that says that ONE of the reasons that coral reefs are dying are because of global warming, that the temperature used to be 74 but has raised to 75 over the last few years causing reefs to die off. Okay...that being said: Now, I don't know about you, but I've been seeing people say to keep your aquarium 75-77, and still others will say 78-80. Whatever the case....there is obviously a big difference here between the aquarium and the ocean. But if corals can stay alive in an aquarium at 78 or 80, why is it they can blame coral reef death on a temperature swing - that is much more gradual than any in a home aquarium - of one degree? __________________ Go Sooners! #1 Current Tank Info: 150H Oceanic RR, custom reef sump, Aquatec 6 bulb HO T5 strip, about 40lbs. live Rock, a few small corals and a few fish and inverts

02/21/2006, 08:50 AM	#2
rsteagall Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Rockvale, TN (close to Murfreesboro) Posts: 1,612	I'm not a know it all by any means, but I would like to place a well educated guess and pose some mroe questions. First off you'd need to know where the 74F is measured at. With that being said, I doubt they are taking measurements from the shallower waters where coral reefs are found around (65ft on the outter edges of the Great Barrier reef). The ocean's average depth is 12,200 Feet with the deepest point being 36,198 Feet. Shallower waters would definitely be warmer than deeper water, thus the discrepancy you speak of. __________________ Ryan Current Tank Info: One hand holding a beer, the other in the tank, and my toes typing on the keyboard. Drunks, reefing, and keyboards do mix in a 5GAL bucket with a 1200 MJ!

02/21/2006, 08:56 AM	#4
Sooner Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 163	The specific recollection I'm speaking of was in an I-Max film on the Coral Reef and also on the educational portion of the Finding Nemo DVD. So..those types of specifics are not mentioned, but I did get the idea that it was temperature among the reef itself. __________________ Go Sooners! #1 Current Tank Info: 150H Oceanic RR, custom reef sump, Aquatec 6 bulb HO T5 strip, about 40lbs. live Rock, a few small corals and a few fish and inverts

02/21/2006, 09:07 AM	#5
dhoch Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,762	Sooner, Typically when doing generic "ocean temp" measurements it's in large open water, that's where theoretically the temp is most stable, so you would be most likely to measure global changes. On the reef temps can be pretty dynamic depending on time of day, and actually location of the reef. Dave __________________ Check out my tanks website... click the red box above my post Current Tank Info: 180 gal Acrylic, 29 gal refugium, 40 gal sump, Mag 18 -> 2 Sea Swirls, Tunze 6100, 8 x 80W overdriven T5 Lights, ASM G4 skimmer

02/21/2006, 09:28 AM	#7
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	A reef tank should have a temperature range of 81-84. From Marine Invertebrates by Dr. Shimek page 15: Most coral reefs have temperatures that range between 78 and 86. The average temp. of about 1000 coral reefs spread throughout the world is about 81. Virtually all coral reef animals will do best within this range and I consider the temperature range of 81-84 as the optimal and normal temperature to maintain all reef animals. __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/21/2006, 08:56 AM	#3
adtravels you cant buy blue fingers Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,542	I have posted a thread on this topic before I live and dive in thailand (andaman and gulf) on a regular basis the lowest temp I have recorded on my very accurate dive computer is 28 degrees celcius and the highest 31 you do the maths for farenheit but thats high the reefs were healthy and thriving the 28 degrees was at 25 metres depth My tank is at 28 degrees and doing very well thank you.

02/21/2006, 09:26 AM	#6
adtravels you cant buy blue fingers Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,542	my guess at why the reefs are dying/in trouble is that milloins of tons of plastic, pesticides, oil derivatives etc etc etc are being dumped into the oceans on a regular basis. the worlds oceans are massive but so are seven billion humans with their lives to get on with, some less scrupulous than others. this may be the cause but there is no forthcoming solution. just an opinion the beauty of forums

02/21/2006, 10:16 AM	#8
lepete Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 12	The key is consistency. This site list a few weather pontoon along the GBR. http://www.aims.gov.au/pages/facilit...ies-index.html The max water temp is 84F. - summer The min water temp is 71F. - winter Daily fluxuation is 0.5C. The temperature are measured at 10m (30 feet) below the pontoon.

02/21/2006, 10:33 AM	#9
Anemonebuff Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: LI,NY Posts: 3,877	I keep mine at 78-80 fall/winter. 80-82 spring/summer, sometimes a 85-86 degree spike in the summer.

02/21/2006, 10:56 AM	#10
brian3 Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: PA Posts: 216	The Florida Keys are in the upper 60's in the winter and survived for thousands of years.

02/21/2006, 11:04 AM	#11
Meloco14 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 112	I was diving in Fiji this past January...water temp 81 down at 80 feet, 82-83 at the surface. Majority of acro's and other stonies are at about 30 feet, in the 82 degree range. In 2004 I dove in Kosrae, Micronesia. Water temp 83-85. One of the best (if not the best) surviving hard coral reefs in the world. At low tide I would walk out in the flats and the water was literally burning my feet since it was so shallow and warm, and I saw a bunch of small acro and encrusting hard coral species growing in this very hot water, exposed to noonday sun only 5 degrees above the equator and partially out of water. This above all else proved to me how resilient these corals can be. As mentioned before, I think the key for us is to maintain stability, not a specific temperature. Personally, I keep my tanks around 78, even though I have first hand proof that in the wild they can and do live in warmer water. My simple reason for keeping the temp a bit lower is for less evaporation. But I know there are people who keep tanks at 80+ degrees with no problems. My father kept a beautiful 180g FOWLR for years at 82. So to answer the OP, the temp you read is probably average over depths and a large area. Specifically, Fiji is a huge group of islands, so when you read a temp for Fiji you have no idea where in Fiji they may be talking about. As far as higher temps causing reefs to die, this is still largely in debate. To most people it does indeed seem like this is the case, however there are also many reefs that have grown due to increasing water temps, and the simple truth is water temps have been rising over the last thousand years. The whole global warming thing is something we definitely don't want to get into. For our home aquariums, IMO any temp between 76-82 is fine, as long as you can keep it stable. And seasonal differences is okay, as many reefs in the wild experience seasonal water temp changes, but then again a lot of reefs don't experience them, due to currents or location relative to the equator. So don't stress about it one way or the other. HTH

02/21/2006, 11:38 AM	#12
jimbo045 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Aiea, HI. Posts: 1,788	I like the 75-79, but most times 75-77. JD

02/21/2006, 12:19 PM	#13
moonpod Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: B.H., Los Angeles Posts: 13,053	Intresting. According to Walt Smith, the areas where he has his stuff (Tonga and Fiji I believe) the water temp where the corals are collected and propogated is in the high 70s. They have dieoffs when the water hits the 80s. Most likely is that the animals can adapt and the key is temp stability. __________________ Excuses are just the nails for the house of failure. Current Tank Info: 32" Leemar starfire cube now empty and not quite so stinky

02/21/2006, 01:29 PM	#14
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	That must be a refridgerated section that Meloco14 wasn't diving at and NORA isn't allowed to go! __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/21/2006, 07:55 PM	#15
Meloco14 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 112	Well I can't speak for Tonga, but Fiji is a very large area so maybe Walt Smith's operation is in an area fed by a cooler current of water or something. I wouldn't find it hard to believe if it was 78-79, but much lower then that and either it's down at depth or there's a current of colder water coming through. Also might depend on time of year. When I was there it was the middle of their summer, but they said the water continues to get warmer until April. So the temp potentially gets up to 83-85. Not sure how cold it gets in their winter, maybe down to 78 or so.

02/21/2006, 08:02 PM	#16
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	Here is a great article about temps and stability. http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/22/2006, 06:53 PM	#17
DaveG99 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Forney Texas Posts: 1,597	I was just in the keys last weekend and the water was 72 degrees. That is pretty cold. And I have also been in the keys as well as the virgin Islands and jamaica and cayman Islands and mexico and many more places when the water temp was 85 degrees or even a bit higher. So the answer is coral can grow in any where from 70-90 degree water.