The cost of this hobby, and buying the best ( or cheapest? )

[JimR]

What amazes me around here in RC, is the guys who rant and rave to buy all the very best of equipment. This isn't a cheap hobby to get into, and some of us are on limited budgets, and have to purchase equipment that "WE" can afford. I have even had a couple rude people let me know that if I couldnt afford the best, I shouldnt even be in this hobby.....Aint that some crap?Sure, maybe the best will last longer in the long run, or cost less in the long run, but if a person cant afford to purchase the best, then let them at least get into the hobby and enjoy it like you do, with the cheaper equipment.

A few examples:

My $95 ebay RO/DI system...People having fits because I didnt spend $199 for the TyphoonIII. Tell me, how come this TyphoonIII is better than the $500+ RO/DI systems out there? If it costing more is the recommending factor, why are you not recommending everyone spend the $500? SURELY the $500+ units are far superior than the $199 TyphoonIII's.

Overflow Boxes. People condeming the QuietFlow that cost me $40, instead of the brand that cost $100 ( damn if I can remember the manufacture name...Life-something? ).

My $109 260watt PC Odyssea light instead of a $300 Corallife ( or even more expensive models ). I was in the LFS, and just to buy the replacement bulbs was more than what I paid for everything.

Then, to take the cake...When I spent $45 for 40lbs of Carribsea aganite sand, people laff about not just buying the 40lb bag of $5 play sand. ROFL

I guess what I'm trying to say is, please give your opinoins of what you think works and dont flame others for giving thier opinions, if they dont agree with yours. Everything I have bought, I have had plenty of members here who have bought the same equipment and are happy with it, and recommended it to me. It is this that is making it reasonable enough for me to get into SW.

[Kabong]

LOL well said.
My personal favorite is when every one raves about a certain product. Then 3 month's later it a piece of crap.

[doox00]

I agree, this is a very expensive hobby, I just got done purchasing most of the items I need to get me started and I am sitting at about 1200 dollars now spent, that hurts lol What I did was asking in forums such as this one, some people said to get the very best most expensive stuff, others recommended cheaper alternatives that would overal give the same result.

I bought some of my stuff used, like the typhoon III, was not used but was an open box, so I got 30 percent off, asm g1-x skimmer I got for 150 for a 3 month old one, instead of over 200 for new. I bought a used pc 4x65 lights for 75 dollars (this is going to be a fowlr tank). I wanted to make sure I did it right the first time, so spent a little more to get started, and I am sure I still made some mistakes.. buying used helps save you some money. (rest of my equipment I bought new, shopped around online, ebay etc).

[Recife]

That's a very good point. I see people asking for advice here on what brand/model to buy. The answers are normally "you can use that but I really recommend x product".
Newbies are not in the position to judge, so they end up going for the more expensive stuff even when it's not necessary. It's like buying those supermarket own brand products that are sometimes half the price of leading brands. A good example of that is buying ASM skimmer x Euroreef.

It would be great if we could extend this thread to list all the pieces of equipment needed or optional for a marine (reef or not) tank and list the most popular brands with the average price and pro's and con's of each.

What do you guys think? It would be a great source of information for newbies.

[apapas]

sounds great I'm new to the hobby and need help

[roader247]

Well said I'm on a tight budget too I am saving to set up my new tank and buying a little bit at a time. Good Luck

[FormulatedFire]

i kno everyone tells you to read and read and read.....and thats the best way to do it......but form you own opinions because most people just buy the expensive because they think its the best......just like a toyota will last as long as a lexus and guess what its the same company just with more features........the best way to do things is be patient and buy most of you stuff used......i got 60-90 lbs of lr from someone breaking down a tank for 120 bucks.......i'm getting a 1000 light setup MH 2 x 150 aqua medic.....for only 400 only used for 4 months......when people get out of this hobby they get out fast and sell stuff cheap

[kevensquint]

HMMM, I agree with alot of what you say, especially about the people comming down on you about your choices (look at my sig). I do have to say that as E.Borneman says in his book, to keep corals successfully, besides good lighting, you need to maintain these params as stable as possible and at the correct levels-Temp,S.G,PH, Ca,Alk..period, there is no magic potion or piece of equipement. If you can do this, it does'nt matter what equipement or brand your using to acheive it. That being said, I did'nt choose to go the Ca reactor route. I instead chose to use the 2-part method, and to maintain levels super stable, I got the Aqua-medic reefdoser Twin. At $190 it is way cheaper than a Ca reactor. I am totaly satisfied as is a reefer buddy who tried the same thing. My Ca is 420ppm and Alk is 9.5, I have a well stocked mixt reef and my levels don't move at all.

[Spuds725]

Thanks for directing me here Jim....

I will point out, one of the reasons people recommend quality equipment so you don't have to buy it again-- it is frequently the case with lights and protein skimmers....

I'm not too new to the hobby but only last year discovered message boards... have learned alot and got some bad recommendations... last year I bought a AquaC Urchin based on recommendations... it wasn't much better then my seaclone--- For not alot more I could have got a quality ASM skimmer-- I am now running a 135 gallon tank with a homemade (Euroreef clone) recirculating skimmer--- skims circles around my urchin-- cost me $200 from a local reefer (bought it with my tank off him).

For lights-- the PC JEBO/Odysea is fine for softies or FOWLR-- I bought one for my 72 last year--- yes it sucks-- one cord for 3 seperate lights precluded me from putting them all on seperate timers, fans were loud the first month (until they quit), the ends don't fit together very well... but it lights my tank (does its job)... so in this case I'm satisfied with my crappy purchase...

per our discussion in the RO/DI thread... it will depend upon the quality somewhat, but also the source of raw water--- in many cases a less efficient unit can be more cost effective... my pending RO/DI calculator will be able to show this if I can get some reliable data on resin deioniztion capacity........

my point is (do I have a point??) there are many choices and methods to make in this hobby, some people are very serious about particular methods and hardware... if you disagree with them, be prepared to defend your recommendation....As Jim found in the RO/DI thread.....

Good luck everyone... remember this hobby is supposed to be relaxing....

[FDinPA]

To be honest, I prefer to build as much of my own stuff as possible. Anything that is made specifically for the aquarium industry is either flimsy or way over priced. I am also new to message boards but one of the things that I have noticed is that there are a great many 'snotheads' who like to brag about their equipment. It reminds me of a midlife crisis thing (maybe they are just too cheap to buy a Corvette!!) My favorite thus far are protein skimmers. People love to post pics of their 'foam fractionator'. Mine is a homemade PVC counter current that uses an airstone. I bet it cost less than $40 to make. I will admit that it is ugly as sin but it does produce some really nasty brown goo and that is all that matters. To top it off, I have never cleaned it except to empty the cup and wipe out the neck!! (I have gone through about 10 airstones over the past 6 years though).

[Lakeside518]

Its harder when you keep more then one tank setup.. Many members like myself have 2, 3 or even 4 tanks. I have also learned IMO it is best to try and get the most quality that you can afford. Even if it means waiting it out the extra week or two, perhaps even the extra month.

We are piecing together our 1st 6 ft tank. Defin not cheap.
Currently saving up for the lights. Which will range from $600 to $900. I don't want to do it twice.

Everyone makes mistakes and learns from them.. I'm also trying not to make bad choices and wasted money decisions. More often then not, people on RC know from experience when they recommend something. Having learned from their mistakes and trying to save someone else from the same. Is only understandable

Other times, Sure they rant and rave and cause alittle to much Drama. Ahhh well thats Online for you. Take it with a grain of Salt lol Anyhooo

If you have togo the cheaper route, it doesn't matter whatever it takes to take part & share in a great Hobby that benefits from all those involved. Where else would RC be without us? It would be as empty as some of the local clubs here that many fellow hobbyists have not discovered yet!!! Is hard to get the word out there.

Seems as tho LFS frown upon recognition of this site. Prolly to affraid they will either be out shined or brought to light and questioned on many of their practices..

Thats just my .02

Kris

[IslandCrow]

Anything that's going to save me some money is a good thing. I have to agree with you 100%, Jim! Fortunately, when it comes to equipment, although I get second opinions here, the owner of my not so local LFS is both pretty knowledgeable and not just trying to make a profit, so if the $100 unit works as well as the $500 he'll tell me, and if he has a used one he can give me for $50, so much the better. I'm often times too lazy for DIY, but I'll probably start getting more adventurous in that area as well.

[Agu]

There are all kinds of ways to have a successful reef tank and people tend to defend what works for them. Doesn't make them wrong, right, or snots, just makes them opinionated. A lot of what is expressed on RC is opinion and if you look the opinions are all over the spectrum. The diversity of opinion is one of the values of RC , but that's just my opinion .

When it comes to equipment I've found that I get what I pay for. However the law of diminishing returns says that there's a point where cost/effectiveness is no longer in sync. That point is different for each person (and their finances).


Just realize that most people want to help each other and hope to help them avoid the mistakes they've made. However they come across, they have other members best interests at heart. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to post.

Have more to post but I have to clean my rose colored glasses
..............

[Scuba_Dave]

I started out cheap, 1st three tanks were free & am Iwaki pump.
But I researched my lights & bought a dual PFO HQI 250w used at a great price
I bought my Typhoon III used from another member
I bought 100 lbs of LR for $100
I bought a nice skimmer, and after 2 years finally found out how to get it to skim properly
Expensive does not mean quality or that it will work as expected
It's like buying an expensive camera. You have to know how to use it, or the pics you take will still be junk

Research, know your equipment, stay away from the real cheap stuff that is junk. It's easy to get into this hobby, easy to get discouraged, very easy to spend $10k in 4 years

I'm still on a tight budget w/house construction
DIY CA Reactor, home made top-off, deals on MH lights & fish & corals.

As far as keeping your parameters strictly regulated - bunk IMO
My tank runs best in the winter 76.5-79
In the summer it can range from 77 or so during a rainy week, to a high around 85 on a hot day
Anyone who dives in the ocean is well aware of the temp swings encountered by a reef from a hot day to a cool night

You keep a tank at a 2 degree swing with heaters & chillers & guess what happens when something fails & there is a 4-5 degree increase...?

But that's just my opinion based on 7+ years of diving & 5 years of Reef & SW

I had to clean out my tank because I had all sorts of stuff growing all over. I still have more to clean out, in prep of upgrading my system

There's more then one way & brand of equipment to build a better mousetrap GLHF

[doox00]

Originally posted by FDinPA
My favorite thus far are protein skimmers. People love to post pics of their 'foam fractionator'. Mine is a homemade PVC counter current that uses an airstone. I bet it cost less than $40 to make. I will admit that it is ugly as sin but it does produce some really nasty brown goo and that is all that matters. To top it off, I have never cleaned it except to empty the cup and wipe out the neck!! (I have gone through about 10 airstones over the past 6 years though).

I would love to know how to make a cheap but effective protein skimmer, I would sell the asm g1-x I just bought then

[JimR]

Sweet tank Dave.

i'm getting a 1000 light setup MH 2 x 150 aqua medic.....for only 400 only used for 4 months......when people get out of this hobby they get out fast and sell stuff cheap

One of my points. Sounds like someone bought the best, found out the hobby wasnt thier cup of tea, and it cost them $600 just on that item alone. Of course some people can afford to do that, I cant. I have $650 in my setup so far ( no skimmer, LR or Fish yet ). If it doesnt work out for me, then I wont be out as much.

[MiddletonMark]

And do consider buying used.

My first skimmer was underpowered for my tank - so I kept an eye out on the used forum for 6 months ... and one day, a local was selling a much nicer skimmer [used] for $50 more than I could sell mine for.
Couldn't be happier with the upgrade - and I saved 40% on `list' price.

As mentioned above - it's easy to buy cheap + have to upgrade in this hobby - in my experience one of the more expensive parts as you pay twice.

Also, realize people weigh different factors. While I didn't pay any attention to the amount of power they use to run - I've started to put a premium on energy-efficiency ... and some of those more expensive pumps/powerheads/etc I have realized are `long-run' cheap vs. the cheap-purchase-price stuff that will cost me more month-to-month for the next years.

As for attitutudes - it's what you make of it

[FDinPA]

Originally posted by doox00
I would love to know how to make a cheap but effective protein skimmer, I would sell the asm g1-x I just bought then

There are a lot of DIY plans on the net for skimmers. The problem is that it will be big and ugly. Counter current airstone driven skimmers can be extremely efficient. They just need to have a relatively tall column to maximize contact time. If you are restricted to a 'normal' sized sump arrangement (< 36") you are out of luck unless you can plumb it remotely and stick it elsewhere. Mine is 3" PVC with flow driven by a maxi jet 400. I have a mid sized air pump driving 2 stones. I forget the exact measurements but I think that my water column is about 40 inches and overall height is about 50 (ish) inches.

[aquaman67]

Why do people recommend name brand products?

This is why...

Originally posted by RobbyG
You filterdirect guys with good units are lucky, I still have mine that I scraped and put in the closet, The first day I set it up, it had 300 ppm in and 50-60 ppm after the RO. I ate through the pint sized DI resin in about 3 weeks and then after trying just about everything I gave up. Then I got smart and bought a unit from airwaterice.com that unit is built so much better and works very well.

For $50 more why take a chance.