The Future of Controllers

ianward · 02/28/2006, 01:26 PM

I was about to buy a controller, AC3pro, Lighthouse etc.

What I realy need (want) is to be able to monitor the controller from the WWW the lighthouse does this just geat but has limited capabilities, the AC2Pro has the capabilities but limited WWW ie: no graphing capabilities (from what I can see).

So what do you all think.

Will there be an explosion of controllers abilities in the next 6 months or so??
Just wondering if I should wait a bit.

ErikS · 02/28/2006, 01:44 PM

Explosion of capabilities? I'd say no, not really. There will be some new features (i.e. the ACIII/Pro line feature built in web servers).

It's a nitche market with few competitors - not likely competition will fuel a massive price or feature war.

RobbyG · 02/28/2006, 03:44 PM

The only thing that may help you out is the Webserver addition that Aquatronica should be coming out with in June. If it does happen, that will make it the most expandable complete controller on the market.

Julio · 02/28/2006, 04:15 PM

controllers IMO are only good for tank that are not bigger than 180 gallons as they will not hold enough amps for a tank much bigger.

horkn · 02/28/2006, 07:24 PM

maybe the aquarium specific controllers, julio..

throw a PLC on a tank, and you are not really limited in any way.. but they will cost you more. an Allen Bradley micrologix 1100 is ethernet ready, and is nearly limitless for expandability.. but.. retail at over a grand. even the price i buy them for at my job is jsut shy of 500 dollars....

Julio · 02/28/2006, 07:44 PM

ok, but is the maximum amps you can run on the controller?

horkn · 03/01/2006, 07:46 AM

well, if we use these AB PLCs to run wastewater treatment centers, they can easily handle any amount of amps we throw at them.

there is a limit to the number of amps, but, its very high. i doubt that any aquarium would max one out, well, unless you are seaworld

ErikS · 03/01/2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

ok, but is the maximum amps you can run on the controller?

There is no real maximum amps on controllers such as Aquatronica or Neptunes.....the limit is on the attached controllers & both are expandable.

You can daisy chain 4 of Neptune's DC8s = 32 outlets with a max of 60a. In addition you can add X-10 to these & control even more (up to the max of the controller, for an ACIII Pro that would be 32 devices).

Yes, controllers like ReefKeeper & Lighthouse with fixed #s of outlets are limited but those like IKS, Aquatronica, & Neptune are in a different league (as evidenced by the price

)

perpetual98 · 03/01/2006, 09:37 AM

You can always isolate the controllers with relays too if you're that concerned about amps.

horkn, I just started a thread in the DIY section yesterday about a Micrologix 1500 that i'm playing with. I'm kinda stumped right now with temperature control/monitoring.

Zaphod · 03/01/2006, 10:28 AM

I like the aquatronica they are coming out with a firmware update that should fix some things and add more functionality. It is still a pretty new product but I think in ime they can dominate because of the sheer expandability. If you have or plan on having multiple tanks it is worth it.

Fliger · 03/01/2006, 10:52 AM

I'm in the same boat, I like Aquatronica but its not mac compatible so I had to get rid of mine. There are things I didn't really like but there were things on past Aquacontrollers I didn't like either. ErikS and others have really helped me out with ACIII Pro. It is a nice unit, a couple folks don't like the DC8's so I'm still on the fence. Thru the RC group buy you can get the ACIII Pro, probes and a DC8 for $1,000 - not bad. I don't feel like I can get the support for IKS that I need on a $2K controller. I'm pretty much down to the Elos Bio II or the ACIII Pro. In the meantime I sold the Aquatronica because I don't need to get any more attached to it ;-) and I'm buying a Lighthouse. Its cheap, like $350 with a ph probe so it should be fine for me for now. DaveB told me that he was online in less than 3 minutes. The Elos Bio II is very expensive but extremely well thought out. Open source, lots of add-ons and more to come. Here is a thread on it if you're interested -

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=764738

I'm also considering a Bess, but they're not currently imported. It looks a lot like the Aquatronica as far as user friendliness.

http://www.aquacontrol.biz/html/homeaqua1.html
http://www.aquacontrol.biz/html/pl_detail1.html

Quote:

Originally posted by Julio
controllers IMO are only good for tank that are not bigger than 180 gallons as they will not hold enough amps for a tank much bigger.

Where did you come up with this? There is no max on a controller. Most power strips have ~15amp max and you can put several strips on different controllers.

ErikS · 03/01/2006, 12:35 PM

Man oh man, that Bess looks really nice (why do we not get these cool gadgets first).

From an IT person's perspective I like the bus approach better - it just makes it so much more flexible with addressing & expansion.

If the Aquatronica had web access when I was buying I'd have likely gone that route.

BeanAnimal · 03/01/2006, 12:41 PM

you could also go the route many of us have...

A DIY approach. Of course this takes some electronics and/pr programming skill... but there are great devices out there such as Phidgets.com and similar USB stuff. It used to be much harder to DIY as you needed to know a lot more about low level drivers and electronics....

Bean

ianward · 03/02/2006, 12:52 PM

Wow what a great response, hey, this thread was supposed to help me decide now I have way more interesting choices to mull over.
Thank you all very much, I will try to make a decision by the end of the weekend.

BeanAnimal · 03/02/2006, 01:29 PM

as a side note the Phidgets devices are mostly sold to flight sim guys. Some of these folks have built some prett darn sophosticated flight sim cockpits.

Julio · 03/02/2006, 04:18 PM

ERIK,
Thanks for clearing that up.

Fligger,
i got this from the a discussion that went on here on RC a while back.

Fliger · 03/02/2006, 05:12 PM

I see. It just seemed odd. I could not imagine a large reef tank withOUT a controller. Even just a basic one like a AC Jr or Reefkeeper. Makes life a little easier with all readings coming to one screen, easy to replace probes, acts as a controller for reactors, temp readings are more accurate than $25 heaters or some chillers even, wanna change light cycles just push a few buttons.

Julio · 03/02/2006, 06:12 PM

I know which is why i ordered my AC3 last week and should be here by Monday.

horkn · 03/02/2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by perpetual98
You can always isolate the controllers with relays too if you're that concerned about amps.

horkn, I just started a thread in the DIY section yesterday about a Micrologix 1500 that i'm playing with. I'm kinda stumped right now with temperature control/monitoring.

I will take a look at that thread....

jnfallon · 03/04/2006, 12:16 AM

Just got my acIII pro and so far I love it.

Can't imagine not having one on a tank of any size or complexity.

Fliger, I saw you list that aquatronica the day after I received my ACIII, and I really considered jumping on it. I didn't because I'm really not an "early adopter" anymore, and like the wide base of users Neptune has. The systems are pretty bulletproof, and the customer service is unbelievably good. I'm not into finding glitches.

02/28/2006, 01:26 PM	#1
ianward Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kelowna, Canada Posts: 281	The Future of Controllers I was about to buy a controller, AC3pro, Lighthouse etc. What I realy need (want) is to be able to monitor the controller from the WWW the lighthouse does this just geat but has limited capabilities, the AC2Pro has the capabilities but limited WWW ie: no graphing capabilities (from what I can see). So what do you all think. Will there be an explosion of controllers abilities in the next 6 months or so?? Just wondering if I should wait a bit.

02/28/2006, 01:44 PM	#2
ErikS Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: VA Posts: 2,199	Explosion of capabilities? I'd say no, not really. There will be some new features (i.e. the ACIII/Pro line feature built in web servers). It's a nitche market with few competitors - not likely competition will fuel a massive price or feature war. __________________ It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it

02/28/2006, 03:44 PM	#3
RobbyG Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 600 Ft From the Reef Posts: 2,099	The only thing that may help you out is the Webserver addition that Aquatronica should be coming out with in June. If it does happen, that will make it the most expandable complete controller on the market. __________________ The Optimist says the glass is half full, the Pessimist says it’s half empty, an engineer only see's a glass that’s twice as big as it needs to be! Current Tank Info: Insanely Automated Low Power Consumption 90 Gal Oceanic Bow System/Aquatronica Touch Controller/AQ Dosing Pump/AQT LEDS/AQ SMS/Seq Dart Pump/ASM G3/Ozotech Ozonizer/Koralin 1502/Chiller/Typhoon3 Ro/S.Squirt /Phos React/Rmt DSB

02/28/2006, 04:15 PM	#4
Julio Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New york Posts: 7,978	controllers IMO are only good for tank that are not bigger than 180 gallons as they will not hold enough amps for a tank much bigger. __________________ Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef w/ 250 watt SE XM10Ks and AP1003, 12 gallon reef, 40 gallon reef

02/28/2006, 07:24 PM	#5
horkn Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: milwaukee wisconsin Posts: 4,125	maybe the aquarium specific controllers, julio.. throw a PLC on a tank, and you are not really limited in any way.. but they will cost you more. an Allen Bradley micrologix 1100 is ethernet ready, and is nearly limitless for expandability.. but.. retail at over a grand. even the price i buy them for at my job is jsut shy of 500 dollars.... __________________ people write stupid things in this space Current Tank Info: 200g DIY wood reef, 2x 250w SE 10k MH 2x80 t5ho, 75g sump, Geo Ca RX, ASD 6" recirc skimmer

02/28/2006, 07:44 PM	#6
Julio Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New york Posts: 7,978	ok, but is the maximum amps you can run on the controller? __________________ Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef w/ 250 watt SE XM10Ks and AP1003, 12 gallon reef, 40 gallon reef

03/01/2006, 07:46 AM	#7
horkn Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: milwaukee wisconsin Posts: 4,125	well, if we use these AB PLCs to run wastewater treatment centers, they can easily handle any amount of amps we throw at them. there is a limit to the number of amps, but, its very high. i doubt that any aquarium would max one out, well, unless you are seaworld __________________ people write stupid things in this space Current Tank Info: 200g DIY wood reef, 2x 250w SE 10k MH 2x80 t5ho, 75g sump, Geo Ca RX, ASD 6" recirc skimmer

03/01/2006, 09:37 AM	#9
perpetual98 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oconomowoc Posts: 1,242	You can always isolate the controllers with relays too if you're that concerned about amps. horkn, I just started a thread in the DIY section yesterday about a Micrologix 1500 that i'm playing with. I'm kinda stumped right now with temperature control/monitoring. __________________ Used to have many SW tanks, now starting over with one...

03/01/2006, 10:28 AM	#10
Zaphod Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Acton,CA Posts: 1,402	I like the aquatronica they are coming out with a firmware update that should fix some things and add more functionality. It is still a pretty new product but I think in ime they can dominate because of the sheer expandability. If you have or plan on having multiple tanks it is worth it. __________________ - Nick Current Tank Info: 90 gal Mixed Reef

03/01/2006, 12:35 PM	#12
ErikS Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: VA Posts: 2,199	Man oh man, that Bess looks really nice (why do we not get these cool gadgets first). From an IT person's perspective I like the bus approach better - it just makes it so much more flexible with addressing & expansion. If the Aquatronica had web access when I was buying I'd have likely gone that route. __________________ It's just my opinion & it's worth exactly what you paid for it

03/01/2006, 12:41 PM	#13
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	you could also go the route many of us have... A DIY approach. Of course this takes some electronics and/pr programming skill... but there are great devices out there such as Phidgets.com and similar USB stuff. It used to be much harder to DIY as you needed to know a lot more about low level drivers and electronics.... Bean

03/02/2006, 12:52 PM	#14
ianward Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kelowna, Canada Posts: 281	Wow what a great response, hey, this thread was supposed to help me decide now I have way more interesting choices to mull over. Thank you all very much, I will try to make a decision by the end of the weekend.

03/02/2006, 01:29 PM	#15
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	as a side note the Phidgets devices are mostly sold to flight sim guys. Some of these folks have built some prett darn sophosticated flight sim cockpits.

03/02/2006, 04:18 PM	#16
Julio Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New york Posts: 7,978	ERIK, Thanks for clearing that up. Fligger, i got this from the a discussion that went on here on RC a while back. __________________ Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef w/ 250 watt SE XM10Ks and AP1003, 12 gallon reef, 40 gallon reef

03/02/2006, 05:12 PM	#17
Fliger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 8,642	I see. It just seemed odd. I could not imagine a large reef tank withOUT a controller. Even just a basic one like a AC Jr or Reefkeeper. Makes life a little easier with all readings coming to one screen, easy to replace probes, acts as a controller for reactors, temp readings are more accurate than $25 heaters or some chillers even, wanna change light cycles just push a few buttons. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

03/02/2006, 06:12 PM	#18
Julio Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New york Posts: 7,978	I know which is why i ordered my AC3 last week and should be here by Monday. __________________ Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef w/ 250 watt SE XM10Ks and AP1003, 12 gallon reef, 40 gallon reef

03/04/2006, 12:16 AM	#20
jnfallon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montauk, NY Posts: 1,573	Just got my acIII pro and so far I love it. Can't imagine not having one on a tank of any size or complexity. Fliger, I saw you list that aquatronica the day after I received my ACIII, and I really considered jumping on it. I didn't because I'm really not an "early adopter" anymore, and like the wide base of users Neptune has. The systems are pretty bulletproof, and the customer service is unbelievably good. I'm not into finding glitches.