where do i start? what not to do. long true story.

Marefish · 03/06/2006, 06:37 AM

First was wondering if anyone knew what this could be>
Orange gunk

covered most of the rubber in my 20g tank, which was pretty foul after being up for only a few weeks.

Mistake One: The tank

I tore the tank down because i realized i bought mostly junk as can be seen here>
[Not good].

This beauty

comes complete with lighting (that matches a cheap catering hall), skimmer and 2 generic power heads. Worth mentioning the the skimmer, rubber connections and powerhead smelled like either glue,gasoline or diesel fuel. Not overpowering but the odor was there.

I was also smart enough to buy the floor model

. The good thing is i never added anything living to this setup.

Mistake Two: The rock and sand

I added a bunch of fiji rock and reef sand stored (in black plastic bag) in my back jard for about 10 years.

Flooded the rock and sand with fresh water but this obviously was not good enough. The reason i know this, AFTER buying a Red Sea skimmer (Turbo hang on) alot of brownish dirt collected by skimmer. Very happy with this skimmer BTW.

NEW tank setup

I tore down that mess and purchased a 40 gallon (long) AGA, added the new skimmer and here is the scary part-
cleaned sand with bleach, then rised and air dried, mixed with super fine bagged sand from Carib Sea. I used half the amount of salt (Tropic Marin) needed to RO water.

Now after a few days water is still cloudy.

Should i wait it out?

Could it be the bag sand settling? (long shot)

Worse could it be my bleaching the sand?

Is this normal?.....no not me, the cloudy water

Water isnt foul at all just cloudy.

I cant add anything till i know what the problem is, so can someone please help.

Sorry so long and rambling, but cant explain it in short version.

weaver5 · 03/06/2006, 06:46 AM

well from what I can see the first pic lookis like it could be coraline algea.That is not bad it is a good thing when it starts to grow.

Swanwillow · 03/06/2006, 07:32 AM

orange goo in a rubbermaid after a few days: I'd bet its NOT coralline, but just-well, orange goo... HA. protein waste: I get it in the suction cups of my power heads often enough... definately NOT coralline... its soft, gushy, etc...

bleaching the sand, then RINSING it wouldn't be bad: the question being, did you rinse it? ummm, is the cloud going away at all? or not really?

Sk8r · 03/07/2006, 12:44 AM

Bleach? As in chlorine bleach? That kills anything---including any bacteria that can help the tank cycle, the live bacteria in the rock, and any fish or corals later added.
There are some chlorine neutralizers that your Local Fish Store can recommend that will take the bleach out of the system---but I'm worried about your rock, which might take bleach into the pores and die, and cause further problems. Simple sand dust will turn the water milky til it settles, which can take days, but if chlorine bleach has been in the system, be sure to run some sort of neutralizer through before you do anything else.
Best of all, have a long quiet talk with a reputable LFS person and get recommendations where you can exchange specifics of what's happened and develop a plan to get the system running. It may cost more at first, but it will be worth it to get started smoothly.

Marefish · 03/07/2006, 05:53 AM

Thanks for the help.

The water is clearing up, but very slowly. Right now all i have is salt water, my old dirty (now cleaned with bleach) SAND- and if you scroll down there is an image of about half the Fiji rock.

Actually the Rock is a mixture of Fiji and Tonga, I posted those pics before but in case you guys didnt read that post I will give a bvrief description of my plan.

The rock and sand has been dry for about 10 years. The sand was still damp when i opened the sealed black garbage bag.

for the first setup i just rinsed the sand and rock real good, when the orange goo was visible (see pic) i thought i had a real problem possibly with the sand.

Quote:

Bleach? As in chlorine bleach? That kills anything---including any bacteria that can help the tank cycle, the live bacteria in the rock, and any fish or corals later added. There are some chlorine neutralizers that your Local Fish Store can recommend that will take the bleach out of the system---but I'm worried about your rock, which might take bleach into the pores and die, and cause further problems. Simple sand dust will turn the water milky til it settles, which can take days, but if chlorine bleach has been in the system, be sure to run some sort of neutralizer through before you do anything else.

I have read alot of info that it is safe to use but having never done it before makes me worried also.

What i did was take a few pounds at a time, add bleach (name brand

) and water mixture stirred it up real good let it sit......

Rinse\soak, rinse\soak extra good then air dried, now i am worried about chemical residues left behind. Anyone know?

Yes the water was milky white, and clean smelling too. The skimmer has the fine sand collecting in the lower chamber so the sand was stirring around. Guess now the impellar is shot

. But it is still working good and pulling out a little clean brown mud.

Well thats it, my "natural tank" may be a natural disaster.

Currently it is 40g long but plan on adding 40g sump\refugium, the sump will have most lr and most likely Carib Sea course sand (the colonized, supposed live sand).

I appreciate any comments especially regarding, bleaching and if it will effect nitrifying bacteria.

Thanks

Swanwillow · 03/07/2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Bleach? As in chlorine bleach? That kills anything---including any bacteria that can help the tank cycle, the live bacteria in the rock, and any fish or corals later added.

not quite true-you can use chlorine bleach in a tank, and it will come out just fine... if its not scented (HA) its more or less ammonia and water... which is in the tank anyways!!! yes, it can kill off things, but if it was rinsed, it will be fine. and chlorine will dissipate in the air... thats what we city folks used to beable to do before they came out with chloramine...

I don't see anything too bad to worry about-I don't think you have any live rock in the tank, just dead rock right? people commonly bleach out coral heads and the like for use. once you get some live rock in the tank, it will be fine.

if your scared, yes, you can get ammonia/chlorine neutralizers, but-I don't think its nessecary..

but if you used scented bleach, you may have a bigger problem... if your are REALLY concerned, go down to the chemistry forum and ask randy-holmes farley about it!!!!

Maxius · 03/07/2006, 09:28 AM

i have actualy bleached rocks before those rocks are in the tank now.
aas long as you rince then good let air dry in the sun, and if there is no smell of it after its dry you good to go.
i also smell the ock after i soak it again i the smell comes back i rince again and redry

Sk8r · 03/07/2006, 10:24 AM

That's good to know.

Marefish · 03/08/2006, 11:06 AM

Well the tank cleared up nicely, took about a week. Which was longer than i expected.

There was really no way of using the sand without bleaching it.

Quote:

if your are REALLY concerned, go down to the chemistry forum and ask randy-holmes farley about it!

Didnt know there was a chemistry forum here, have to check it out. I read on a corporate website that bleach was made up of components of seawater and i used the original formula (not the mountain fresh one)

.

Im happy i dont have to dump 40 g's of RO water. And today i start on the rock, cleaning out dead bugs and dirt and more bleaching. Its a real pain but seems like a wast to not use it.

Thanks again for all the good advice.

sebwin · 03/08/2006, 11:21 AM

Am a little confused by this thread.

Would it not be easier in the long run, though slightly more expensive to buy correct aquarium sand rather than have to hope bleach won't kill everything! I'm a newbie so I may be wrong, but isn't the grain of that sand too big any way = future nitrate problems?

All the best.

Swanwillow · 03/08/2006, 12:01 PM

hte thing is, you can go to home depot and buy 40 lbs of sand for 5 bucks.... thats the cheapest. If you have sand laying around, bleaching it won't hurt, and would only cost 2 bucks for a LOT of sand...

and we're not talking gravel, but SAND... yes, you can buy it from the LFS, but thats what, 30 bucks for 10 lbs? and its not kept 'live' ie: theres no critters in it, just bacteria... its all about the same grain size, either way... and bleaching it won't hurt as long as its rinsed and rinsed and rinsed...

or, if you have an LFS like mine, I wouldn't buy ANYTHING like sand or rock from them, I ONLY get my salt from them, and the occasional livestock purchase... snails, if they ever get in a peppermint shrimp, things like that.

rochestertank · 03/08/2006, 12:35 PM

yeah i definitely agree with the last two members. that gravel stuff is no good. mix it in with your trash and have your garbage company take it. then go over to home depot and get yourself some nice sand and then start getting your tank going with some salt water and make the temp. right and test the water then add some REAL live rock. Not from the back yard. That would be called previously Live - Now dead rock. Not that dead rock is bad but why buck the system? I wouldn't use any back yard rock myself but maybe one of these smarter guys would. DOn't take anything i say personally. Just want you to have a nice tank with nice fishes in it and stuff to be as natural as possible. peace.

Swanwillow · 03/08/2006, 03:00 PM

nahh, she had sand, not gravel... thats why its savable... and bleach is just fine. I'm all for what shes doing!!!

GroYurOwn · 03/08/2006, 03:29 PM

dead rock is great, i have about 50lbs of it, popped some of it in my 10 gal when i set it up, along with some LR rubble, now you wouldnt be able to tell it ever "died". i bet this tank'll be just fine...

rochestertank · 03/08/2006, 07:15 PM

gro your own - i'm doing the same thing with my "dead rock" turning it to LR and it's working. i don't know why i was being so snobby about it. i think it's because i hate bleach. it's a personal thing - can't stand it.

GroYurOwn · 03/09/2006, 09:47 AM

i never bleached. here's my scenario....had to move in a hurry, sold what i could out of my 55g. had A LOT of LR left, didnt have time to do anything with it, so it sat in stagnant water in a basement for about six months...one day i decided i would try to at least clean it off so i might be able to use it later. so i spent about 2 hours spraying off with a semi-high pressure hose, left it out to dry for a few weeks, and rinsed it a few more times, threw it in with some LR during the cycling of a new tank....the rest is history...

Marefish · 03/10/2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GroYurOwn
i never bleached. here's my scenario....had to move in a hurry, sold what i could out of my 55g. had A LOT of LR left, didnt have time to do anything with it, so it sat in stagnant water in a basement for about six months...one day i decided i would try to at least clean it off so i might be able to use it later.

thats pretty much what happened, only mine was out for about ten years. Couldnt part with the rock though.

heres a close up of one piece of about 40 lbs. have a few pieces much bigger but didnt clean it yet. the sand was also worth saving, and most of it now is allready in new tank which is all clear now.

Not that i recommend bleach but this was extreme case.

the clean rock is at bottom-

http://daysone.com/Tank/sand_and_rock.html

I really want to get that white purple again, so wish me luck.

Not that i recommend bleach but this was extreme case, and if it doesnt work out i could blame you guys

Reefer Mike-

smcnally · 03/10/2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Swanwillow
nahh, she had sand, not gravel... thats why its savable... and bleach is just fine. I'm all for what shes doing!!!

I'm sorry, but that picture does not look like sand to me. It looks more like crushed shells and crushed coral.

Swanwillow · 03/10/2006, 09:54 PM

oops, I lied.,...

if its a shallow sand bed, it won't matter... if its a deep sand bed, it will

03/06/2006, 06:37 AM	#1
Marefish Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 25	where do i start? what not to do. long true story. First was wondering if anyone knew what this could be> Orange gunk covered most of the rubber in my 20g tank, which was pretty foul after being up for only a few weeks. Mistake One: The tank I tore the tank down because i realized i bought mostly junk as can be seen here> [Not good]. This beauty comes complete with lighting (that matches a cheap catering hall), skimmer and 2 generic power heads. Worth mentioning the the skimmer, rubber connections and powerhead smelled like either glue,gasoline or diesel fuel. Not overpowering but the odor was there. I was also smart enough to buy the floor model. The good thing is i never added anything living to this setup. Mistake Two: The rock and sand I added a bunch of fiji rock and reef sand stored (in black plastic bag) in my back jard for about 10 years. Flooded the rock and sand with fresh water but this obviously was not good enough. The reason i know this, AFTER buying a Red Sea skimmer (Turbo hang on) alot of brownish dirt collected by skimmer. Very happy with this skimmer BTW. NEW tank setup I tore down that mess and purchased a 40 gallon (long) AGA, added the new skimmer and here is the scary part- cleaned sand with bleach, then rised and air dried, mixed with super fine bagged sand from Carib Sea. I used half the amount of salt (Tropic Marin) needed to RO water. Now after a few days water is still cloudy. Should i wait it out? Could it be the bag sand settling? (long shot) Worse could it be my bleaching the sand? Is this normal?.....no not me, the cloudy water Water isnt foul at all just cloudy. I cant add anything till i know what the problem is, so can someone please help. Sorry so long and rambling, but cant explain it in short version.

03/06/2006, 07:32 AM	#3
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	orange goo in a rubbermaid after a few days: I'd bet its NOT coralline, but just-well, orange goo... HA. protein waste: I get it in the suction cups of my power heads often enough... definately NOT coralline... its soft, gushy, etc... bleaching the sand, then RINSING it wouldn't be bad: the question being, did you rinse it? ummm, is the cloud going away at all? or not really? __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

03/07/2006, 12:44 AM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Bleach? As in chlorine bleach? That kills anything---including any bacteria that can help the tank cycle, the live bacteria in the rock, and any fish or corals later added. There are some chlorine neutralizers that your Local Fish Store can recommend that will take the bleach out of the system---but I'm worried about your rock, which might take bleach into the pores and die, and cause further problems. Simple sand dust will turn the water milky til it settles, which can take days, but if chlorine bleach has been in the system, be sure to run some sort of neutralizer through before you do anything else. Best of all, have a long quiet talk with a reputable LFS person and get recommendations where you can exchange specifics of what's happened and develop a plan to get the system running. It may cost more at first, but it will be worth it to get started smoothly. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/07/2006, 10:24 AM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	That's good to know. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/08/2006, 11:21 AM	#10
sebwin Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 65	Am a little confused by this thread. Would it not be easier in the long run, though slightly more expensive to buy correct aquarium sand rather than have to hope bleach won't kill everything! I'm a newbie so I may be wrong, but isn't the grain of that sand too big any way = future nitrate problems? All the best. __________________ ----- Don't push the river, It flows by itself -----

03/06/2006, 06:46 AM	#2
weaver5 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Batavia Posts: 1,249	well from what I can see the first pic lookis like it could be coraline algea.That is not bad it is a good thing when it starts to grow.

03/07/2006, 09:28 AM	#7
Maxius Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: FL, Posts: 195	i have actualy bleached rocks before those rocks are in the tank now. aas long as you rince then good let air dry in the sun, and if there is no smell of it after its dry you good to go. i also smell the ock after i soak it again i the smell comes back i rince again and redry

03/08/2006, 12:01 PM	#11
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	hte thing is, you can go to home depot and buy 40 lbs of sand for 5 bucks.... thats the cheapest. If you have sand laying around, bleaching it won't hurt, and would only cost 2 bucks for a LOT of sand... and we're not talking gravel, but SAND... yes, you can buy it from the LFS, but thats what, 30 bucks for 10 lbs? and its not kept 'live' ie: theres no critters in it, just bacteria... its all about the same grain size, either way... and bleaching it won't hurt as long as its rinsed and rinsed and rinsed... or, if you have an LFS like mine, I wouldn't buy ANYTHING like sand or rock from them, I ONLY get my salt from them, and the occasional livestock purchase... snails, if they ever get in a peppermint shrimp, things like that. __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

03/08/2006, 12:35 PM	#12
rochestertank Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 117	yeah i definitely agree with the last two members. that gravel stuff is no good. mix it in with your trash and have your garbage company take it. then go over to home depot and get yourself some nice sand and then start getting your tank going with some salt water and make the temp. right and test the water then add some REAL live rock. Not from the back yard. That would be called previously Live - Now dead rock. Not that dead rock is bad but why buck the system? I wouldn't use any back yard rock myself but maybe one of these smarter guys would. DOn't take anything i say personally. Just want you to have a nice tank with nice fishes in it and stuff to be as natural as possible. peace. __________________ What doesn't kill you only takes your money away. Current Tank Info: Lots of rocks, 9 turbo astrea snails, 1 large mexican astrea snail, 2 red clegged hermit crabs, 1 sally lightfoot crab, 1 5" lawnmower blenny, 2 blue damsels, 1 3-striped damsel, 2 star polyps, 1 bicolor pseudochromis, and 1 Yellow Tang.

03/08/2006, 03:00 PM	#13
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	nahh, she had sand, not gravel... thats why its savable... and bleach is just fine. I'm all for what shes doing!!! __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

03/08/2006, 03:29 PM	#14
GroYurOwn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Beaverton, OR Posts: 527	dead rock is great, i have about 50lbs of it, popped some of it in my 10 gal when i set it up, along with some LR rubble, now you wouldnt be able to tell it ever "died". i bet this tank'll be just fine...

03/08/2006, 07:15 PM	#15
rochestertank Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 117	gro your own - i'm doing the same thing with my "dead rock" turning it to LR and it's working. i don't know why i was being so snobby about it. i think it's because i hate bleach. it's a personal thing - can't stand it. __________________ What doesn't kill you only takes your money away. Current Tank Info: Lots of rocks, 9 turbo astrea snails, 1 large mexican astrea snail, 2 red clegged hermit crabs, 1 sally lightfoot crab, 1 5" lawnmower blenny, 2 blue damsels, 1 3-striped damsel, 2 star polyps, 1 bicolor pseudochromis, and 1 Yellow Tang.

03/09/2006, 09:47 AM	#16
GroYurOwn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Beaverton, OR Posts: 527	i never bleached. here's my scenario....had to move in a hurry, sold what i could out of my 55g. had A LOT of LR left, didnt have time to do anything with it, so it sat in stagnant water in a basement for about six months...one day i decided i would try to at least clean it off so i might be able to use it later. so i spent about 2 hours spraying off with a semi-high pressure hose, left it out to dry for a few weeks, and rinsed it a few more times, threw it in with some LR during the cycling of a new tank....the rest is history...

03/10/2006, 09:54 PM	#19
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	oops, I lied.,... if its a shallow sand bed, it won't matter... if its a deep sand bed, it will __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes