Phosphate Problems

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 03:40 PM

For some reason I'm having Phosphate problems. I have a 65RR with 2 250w xm 20k bulb. A 20 gallon long sump. A kent Nautilus skimmer. 2 phosban reactors with rowaphos in them. So a total of 500ml of Rowa. About 85lbs of live rock. Using straight RODI water to top-off. No carbon, no fish. I have a mag 9 return and a tunze 6100 on a controller. What am I doing wrong? Photo period is about 10 hours. Cal-420 , Alk- 9.5, salt- 1.024,. Did miss anything? I just feel like I'm fighting a never ending battle.

Thanks
Aaron

jda · 03/07/2006, 04:10 PM

What is the phosphate reading? What kind of test kit?

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 07:12 PM

0.141, Deltec High Sen. Just checked it again and still the same?

Ti · 03/07/2006, 07:20 PM

Are you feeding too much?
Did you check your water source for PO4?

Aquabucket · 03/07/2006, 07:28 PM

Do you have an algae problem?

Adding some chaetomorpha to your system will help a lot.

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 08:27 PM

I don't feed anything really I feed Dt's once about 3 weeks ago.
Yes RO unit has O PO4, and TDS of 2. Yes Algae is everywhere. A little powder of green on glass. A hard green on rocks. Tank isonly 6 weeks old.

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 08:29 PM

Is the kent skimmer an OK skimmer.

Aquabucket · 03/07/2006, 08:42 PM

If its a good skimmer you should be getting some dank skimate.
It most likely could use some simple mods. Try a Google search for Kent skimmer modifications.

Were did you get your LR from?

jgleach · 03/07/2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by woodywoo
Is the kent skimmer an OK skimmer.

I've got a nautilus with a mag7 on a 150 gallon softie tank that used to be mixed before I moved my sps's into a 180 gal. I, personally, like it very much. I think it should be more than enough on a 65 gallon tank.

Jeff

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 09:00 PM

Because the owner at the LFS says " I hated it, Its a poor skimmer". How could po4 be getting into the water?

Mchava · 03/07/2006, 09:47 PM

what kind of salt are you using, some salts mixes have a high content of po4, also if your lr is still new it might be leaking out po4. I would check your salt water mix and see what it reads at.

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 10:45 PM

I'm using Reef Crystals. My live was pressure washed so that it won't have any po4 left in it. If it still does how long will it linger before it goes away?

VCoo71 · 03/07/2006, 10:49 PM

pressure washed with RO/DI water?

charlie

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 10:51 PM

nope gas powered 25000btu washer. It was 6 weeks ago. Before I put water in tank. Was told by LFS owner that it would be the best thing to do.

VCoo71 · 03/07/2006, 10:54 PM

i just have to wonder what the phospate content of the tap water was and just how much of that your rock absorbed
and not to mention the chlorine.....

charlie

woodywoo · 03/07/2006, 10:56 PM

Yea but that was 6 weeks ago. All the corals look fine. I'm just scared that they will brown out.

Philwd · 03/08/2006, 12:16 AM

If your tank is 6 weeks old then its probably your rocks, if they are new and just cured. Even with the power wash. I had the exact same problem and my rock was cured 5 weeks at the LFS.

Now when I got a batch of new Buna several months ago I immediately measured for PO4 using Saliferts and got a reading of 3.0!! In a plastic tub filled with new SW and nothing else. BTW this rock had been cured 3 months in another reefers home. Couple WC and it dropped to 1.0 and stayed there until I ran phosban in a media bag and put a maxi 600 in there to drive the water through the bag. PO4 dropped to under .1 in a week.

Did you by chance ever measure your LR in SW after the wash but before placing in the tank?

jumboshrimp18 · 03/08/2006, 03:02 AM

Well...
quite a number of things here.....
to begin with, phosphate testkits are amongst the most difficult to discern an accurate reading from...you gave a very specific reading with a so so testkit.--better than the Salifert but not all that great--your readings could be wrong.
you are using 500ml of Rowa...mindboggling...if you read through the many threads on the use of Rowa you would find that that is way way too much...in two reactors no less..did you use rowa in your other tanks? how often do you change it out? whats the flow rate? why are you using rowa in the first place? did you test the water in the main and compare it to the output from the p reactors? did you test the RO water? did you test the mixed salt water?
if your tank is really only 6 weeks new then messing with the natural cycling period with a chemical crutch isn't going to do the trick...
it seems to me almost impossible to have that kind of reading with so much Rowa...your messing with PO4 in a major way ..it could even become saturated and emit phosphates back into the system given enough time...
what is your nitrate reading?
is the LR recently purchased or did you take it from another tank? if it's new, that's probably the problem. can you set up a small prop tank for your corals for a while?if so then cut the photoperiod at least to half to help the algae problem and let the tank stabilize and stop using the rowa...
no fish in tank--not an issue--no food in tank, not an issue
why are you putting DT's in the tank anyway? not to open a can of worms here but with your algae problem it's a good idea not to......
the skimmer efficiency effects PO4 but doesn't directly remove it..if its working at all the the problem lies elsewhere.
there are so many sources of PO4 but no major ones that haven't been covered already here--apart form air contaminants--that seem at all likely....
try switching salts, do more water changes, add more flow is what some would recommend, at least to combat the algae....
if Randy Holmes-Farley were to respond to this thread he would probably conclude by telling you to check your testkits...
do you know your ORP, BTW? just curious...
needless to say a fuge would be a great addition for the long term...
let us know how things develop and good luck.

03/07/2006, 03:40 PM	#1
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	Phosphate Problems For some reason I'm having Phosphate problems. I have a 65RR with 2 250w xm 20k bulb. A 20 gallon long sump. A kent Nautilus skimmer. 2 phosban reactors with rowaphos in them. So a total of 500ml of Rowa. About 85lbs of live rock. Using straight RODI water to top-off. No carbon, no fish. I have a mag 9 return and a tunze 6100 on a controller. What am I doing wrong? Photo period is about 10 hours. Cal-420 , Alk- 9.5, salt- 1.024,. Did miss anything? I just feel like I'm fighting a never ending battle. Thanks Aaron

03/07/2006, 07:20 PM	#4
Ti Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 7,927	Are you feeding too much? Did you check your water source for PO4? __________________ Hair algae is my Macro algae.

03/07/2006, 07:28 PM	#5
Aquabucket Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Green Bay, Wi. Posts: 4,455	Do you have an algae problem? Adding some chaetomorpha to your system will help a lot. __________________ "Just a drop in the bucket"

03/07/2006, 08:42 PM	#8
Aquabucket Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Green Bay, Wi. Posts: 4,455	If its a good skimmer you should be getting some dank skimate. It most likely could use some simple mods. Try a Google search for Kent skimmer modifications. Were did you get your LR from? __________________ "Just a drop in the bucket"

03/07/2006, 09:47 PM	#11
Mchava Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Santa Ana CA Posts: 4,352	what kind of salt are you using, some salts mixes have a high content of po4, also if your lr is still new it might be leaking out po4. I would check your salt water mix and see what it reads at. __________________ Mario

03/07/2006, 04:10 PM	#2
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	What is the phosphate reading? What kind of test kit?

03/07/2006, 07:12 PM	#3
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	0.141, Deltec High Sen. Just checked it again and still the same?

03/07/2006, 08:27 PM	#6
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	I don't feed anything really I feed Dt's once about 3 weeks ago. Yes RO unit has O PO4, and TDS of 2. Yes Algae is everywhere. A little powder of green on glass. A hard green on rocks. Tank isonly 6 weeks old.

03/07/2006, 08:29 PM	#7
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	Is the kent skimmer an OK skimmer.

03/07/2006, 09:00 PM	#10
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	Because the owner at the LFS says " I hated it, Its a poor skimmer". How could po4 be getting into the water?

03/07/2006, 10:45 PM	#12
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	I'm using Reef Crystals. My live was pressure washed so that it won't have any po4 left in it. If it still does how long will it linger before it goes away?

03/07/2006, 10:49 PM	#13
VCoo71 Moved On Join Date: May 2002 Location: norman oklahoma Posts: 1,563	pressure washed with RO/DI water? charlie

03/07/2006, 10:51 PM	#14
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	nope gas powered 25000btu washer. It was 6 weeks ago. Before I put water in tank. Was told by LFS owner that it would be the best thing to do.

03/07/2006, 10:54 PM	#15
VCoo71 Moved On Join Date: May 2002 Location: norman oklahoma Posts: 1,563	i just have to wonder what the phospate content of the tap water was and just how much of that your rock absorbed and not to mention the chlorine..... charlie

03/07/2006, 10:56 PM	#16
woodywoo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 427	Yea but that was 6 weeks ago. All the corals look fine. I'm just scared that they will brown out.

03/08/2006, 12:16 AM	#17
Philwd Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Gilbert, Az Posts: 4,057	If your tank is 6 weeks old then its probably your rocks, if they are new and just cured. Even with the power wash. I had the exact same problem and my rock was cured 5 weeks at the LFS. Now when I got a batch of new Buna several months ago I immediately measured for PO4 using Saliferts and got a reading of 3.0!! In a plastic tub filled with new SW and nothing else. BTW this rock had been cured 3 months in another reefers home. Couple WC and it dropped to 1.0 and stayed there until I ran phosban in a media bag and put a maxi 600 in there to drive the water through the bag. PO4 dropped to under .1 in a week. Did you by chance ever measure your LR in SW after the wash but before placing in the tank?

03/08/2006, 03:02 AM	#18
jumboshrimp18 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West L.A. Posts: 227	Well... quite a number of things here..... to begin with, phosphate testkits are amongst the most difficult to discern an accurate reading from...you gave a very specific reading with a so so testkit.--better than the Salifert but not all that great--your readings could be wrong. you are using 500ml of Rowa...mindboggling...if you read through the many threads on the use of Rowa you would find that that is way way too much...in two reactors no less..did you use rowa in your other tanks? how often do you change it out? whats the flow rate? why are you using rowa in the first place? did you test the water in the main and compare it to the output from the p reactors? did you test the RO water? did you test the mixed salt water? if your tank is really only 6 weeks new then messing with the natural cycling period with a chemical crutch isn't going to do the trick... it seems to me almost impossible to have that kind of reading with so much Rowa...your messing with PO4 in a major way ..it could even become saturated and emit phosphates back into the system given enough time... what is your nitrate reading? is the LR recently purchased or did you take it from another tank? if it's new, that's probably the problem. can you set up a small prop tank for your corals for a while?if so then cut the photoperiod at least to half to help the algae problem and let the tank stabilize and stop using the rowa... no fish in tank--not an issue--no food in tank, not an issue why are you putting DT's in the tank anyway? not to open a can of worms here but with your algae problem it's a good idea not to...... the skimmer efficiency effects PO4 but doesn't directly remove it..if its working at all the the problem lies elsewhere. there are so many sources of PO4 but no major ones that haven't been covered already here--apart form air contaminants--that seem at all likely.... try switching salts, do more water changes, add more flow is what some would recommend, at least to combat the algae.... if Randy Holmes-Farley were to respond to this thread he would probably conclude by telling you to check your testkits... do you know your ORP, BTW? just curious... needless to say a fuge would be a great addition for the long term... let us know how things develop and good luck.