starting DSB in established ( kind of ) tank need advice

slimtim260 · 03/08/2006, 02:47 AM

we have a 46 bowfront that has had fish in it with live rock. there hasnt been any fish in the tank for about 3-6 months. the rock (close to if not a little over 50#) is still in there. all thats in there now is a lobster,a few emerald crabs,2 peppermint shrimp,and some snails. were looking into starting a DSB (3-5") and getting some fish in it again. i have a few questions if anyone can help me out. also plan to do a big water change (20 gallons) when the DSB is installed. plan on removing the crushed coral and live rock while the sand is put in.

1. looking into getting some live sand to seed the southdown. how much is needed ?
2. plan on putting some cycle in to help speed up the process of cycling if tank recycles ( i think it will )
3. what is the time frame i am looking at for tank to be ready for fish/inverts again ?
4. im worried about the live rock if the tank cycles again. what will happen to it ?
5. anythign else that you guys can think of/advise me of to help out.

thanks

slimtim260 · 03/08/2006, 02:49 AM

i forgot to ask that i know Lowe's has quikcrete playgroudn sand but i dont know if its argonite or not. i heared if you put the sand in vinegar if it fizzes then its argonite is this true ?

DJ88© · 03/08/2006, 07:53 AM

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

Subrafta · 03/08/2006, 08:26 AM

Don't bother seeding with the packaged "live sand" at the pet store. That just has bacteria, and you've already got that from your live rock. TBS live sand from Florida has useful critters in it, and you can also get "refresh kits" from Inland Aquatics and Bills Reef. You might also get some live rock rubble from Premium Aquatics, etc. or a few more chunks of live rock -- your shrimp and hermits will have been feasting on the worms and pods from your existing rock.

What you're looking for for "live" sand is worms, snails, and other critters to keep the sand clean and unclumped. The sand itself will take care of the denitrafication via bacteria that's already on your rocks.

Four inches is generally considered the minimum for a Deep Sand Bed. Consider how it'll look before you go much deeper than that. Mine ranges from 3 to 5 inches.

Most HD play sand is silica based (vinegar will tell you if it's aragonite -- silica wont fizz or dissolve). Nothing wrong with it, and it's about the right size, but it's not as white as aragonite. I haven't had any problems with it, but if I had to do it over again I'd bite the bullet and buy a couple bags of the "real" stuff at the LFS. Just for the bright white look.

There's a calculator on the RC home page to figure out how much sand you need. Probably about 100 lbs.

Expect big clouds of silt when you're adding it to the tank. You can minimize this by placing it wet in plastic bags, sinking the bag into the tank, slitting the bag and gently dumping the sand / removing the bag. I rinsed my play sand a bit and still had a foggy tank for a couple days.

Dr. Ron is the guy to talk to about sand beds, but he's one of the experts that left RC. He's at Marine Depot's forums now and will be happy to answer questions: http://www.marinedepot.com/forums/

http://www.inlandaquatics.com/
http://billsreef.safeshopper.com/

John

slimtim260 · 03/09/2006, 12:09 AM

i found some sand at home deopt ( 2 pallets of the stuff ) that says its distributed by old castle the bag is clear/light blue and in white writing it says playground sand. so i assume its arginiate so i decided against the quikcrete. i found on a diffrent forum someone saying they take a piece of PVC pipe thatslong enough to go to the bottom of the tank and a funnel and pour in the sand with very little clouding. i would like to get rid of some of the LR to make room for fish could i break it up and put it in the bottom of the tank then put the sand on top to help out with the bacteria growth in the sand ?

03/08/2006, 02:47 AM	#1
slimtim260 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 104	starting DSB in established ( kind of ) tank need advice we have a 46 bowfront that has had fish in it with live rock. there hasnt been any fish in the tank for about 3-6 months. the rock (close to if not a little over 50#) is still in there. all thats in there now is a lobster,a few emerald crabs,2 peppermint shrimp,and some snails. were looking into starting a DSB (3-5") and getting some fish in it again. i have a few questions if anyone can help me out. also plan to do a big water change (20 gallons) when the DSB is installed. plan on removing the crushed coral and live rock while the sand is put in. 1. looking into getting some live sand to seed the southdown. how much is needed ? 2. plan on putting some cycle in to help speed up the process of cycling if tank recycles ( i think it will ) 3. what is the time frame i am looking at for tank to be ready for fish/inverts again ? 4. im worried about the live rock if the tank cycles again. what will happen to it ? 5. anythign else that you guys can think of/advise me of to help out. thanks

03/08/2006, 07:53 AM	#3
DJ88© Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: BC. Canada. Posts: 14,351	This thread has been moved to the current forum. __________________ Darren Beauty fades.... Stupid is forever...... Current Tank Info: 34 Gal Solana with some lights.. and pumps that make water move. And fish...

03/08/2006, 08:26 AM	#4
Subrafta Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 399	Don't bother seeding with the packaged "live sand" at the pet store. That just has bacteria, and you've already got that from your live rock. TBS live sand from Florida has useful critters in it, and you can also get "refresh kits" from Inland Aquatics and Bills Reef. You might also get some live rock rubble from Premium Aquatics, etc. or a few more chunks of live rock -- your shrimp and hermits will have been feasting on the worms and pods from your existing rock. What you're looking for for "live" sand is worms, snails, and other critters to keep the sand clean and unclumped. The sand itself will take care of the denitrafication via bacteria that's already on your rocks. Four inches is generally considered the minimum for a Deep Sand Bed. Consider how it'll look before you go much deeper than that. Mine ranges from 3 to 5 inches. Most HD play sand is silica based (vinegar will tell you if it's aragonite -- silica wont fizz or dissolve). Nothing wrong with it, and it's about the right size, but it's not as white as aragonite. I haven't had any problems with it, but if I had to do it over again I'd bite the bullet and buy a couple bags of the "real" stuff at the LFS. Just for the bright white look. There's a calculator on the RC home page to figure out how much sand you need. Probably about 100 lbs. Expect big clouds of silt when you're adding it to the tank. You can minimize this by placing it wet in plastic bags, sinking the bag into the tank, slitting the bag and gently dumping the sand / removing the bag. I rinsed my play sand a bit and still had a foggy tank for a couple days. Dr. Ron is the guy to talk to about sand beds, but he's one of the experts that left RC. He's at Marine Depot's forums now and will be happy to answer questions: http://www.marinedepot.com/forums/ http://www.inlandaquatics.com/ http://billsreef.safeshopper.com/ John __________________ That night I dreamed in peaceful sleep of shady summertime Of old dogs and children and watermelon wine. Current Tank Info: Oceanic 37g, JBJ 12g Nano DX

03/08/2006, 02:49 AM	#2
slimtim260 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 104	i forgot to ask that i know Lowe's has quikcrete playgroudn sand but i dont know if its argonite or not. i heared if you put the sand in vinegar if it fizzes then its argonite is this true ?

03/09/2006, 12:09 AM	#5
slimtim260 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 104	i found some sand at home deopt ( 2 pallets of the stuff ) that says its distributed by old castle the bag is clear/light blue and in white writing it says playground sand. so i assume its arginiate so i decided against the quikcrete. i found on a diffrent forum someone saying they take a piece of PVC pipe thatslong enough to go to the bottom of the tank and a funnel and pour in the sand with very little clouding. i would like to get rid of some of the LR to make room for fish could i break it up and put it in the bottom of the tank then put the sand on top to help out with the bacteria growth in the sand ?