Finally custom tank cycling w/pics PIC Intensive

rrr757 · 03/08/2006, 07:51 AM

Hi everyone,

Although i am not a newbie, i have never had a refugium sump. Its generally been a skimmer, or live rock as filtration. This is the first time that i have done anything with an overflow. Please let me know your thoughts as well as if you can help me solve some questions i still have.

Some specs:
Around 50 gallon Custom made semi-acrylic tank and custom wood stand
10 gallon refugium/sump from ebay(only that would fit in the stand)
60lbs live sand
one 7lbs base rock

Rio 2500
CSL MH 250 Watt pendant with built in 2x36watt pc
Jalli 18watt pc for refugium.
PM Airpowered skimmer with waste collector
Wave maker outlet
Top-off controller
Ghetto plumbing

And thats about it for now.

Questions/Information:
1. Microbubbles - grrrrrr, I finally have put a flow control valve and lowered the flow pumping into the tank, my sump is really small in order for it to fit in the stand. I also split the return into the sump with a vertical bar that allows some of the air to escape up. Still have bubbles coming out so i put a sponge, and that has helped. I have heard to give it a couple of weeks and then see. It already seemed better this morning.

2. Is there a such think as a quite tank, lol. I have put a durso, slowed down the flow, its about 70% quiter now, but if you all know of anything else i can do to quite it down, that would be appreciated.

3. I have a PM skimmer, but my last reef i did was just based off of live rock and sand, and i never had a need for the skimmer, can i assume the same because i have the refugium i wont need a skimmer. Also, if i have around10% base rock how long does it take for it to become seeded and considered live rock

4. Ok, lets say the power was to go out, well it seems that my inlet to the tank from the pump actually siphons water back into the sump, if i put a U type pattern in the tubing, will that prevent the siphon? If you have any suggestion on how you have solve the problem, please let me know. Basically my sump can hold the water till the overflow line drops, but then the line into the tank from the pump will siphon water into the sump in a power loss until the water has drained pass the loc line if that makes sense.

Ok, here are the pictures, i will update some more of the equipment tonight/tomorrow hopefully of some of the changes i have done with the plumbing.

After painting and waiting in my entry way for 1.5 years
Picture

Picture

Picture

More to follow...

rrr757 · 03/08/2006, 07:52 AM

My wavemaker outlet and a new top off controller that i am setting up still

I thought i would put one image and if interested you all can click the links after wards or view my gallery to see more

Wave Controller and Top Off Controller

Various shots
MH Coming on Shimmering effect 1

MH Coming on Shimmering effect 2

MH Coming Full tank

Various

Various

Various

Various

Various

rrr757 · 03/08/2006, 07:55 AM

Here is what the refugium/sump looked like before i started messing with the plumbing last night.

rrr757 · 03/08/2006, 09:45 AM

Anyone have any comments or advice?

sebwin · 03/08/2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

4. Ok, lets say the power was to go out, well it seems that my inlet to the tank from the pump actually siphons water back into the sump, if i put a U type pattern in the tubing, will that prevent the siphon? If you have any suggestion on how you have solve the problem, please let me know. Basically my sump can hold the water till the overflow line drops, but then the line into the tank from the pump will siphon water into the sump in a power loss until the water has drained pass the loc line if that makes sense.

Drill a couple of small holes in the inlet pipe just beneath the water line (or above if you don't mind the extra small water streams.
When the power shuts down, and the water level reaches the holes, air will enter the pipe and instantly stop the siphon.
No-return valves would also work, but this would probably be more fail-safe + easier to do!

sebwin · 03/08/2006, 09:50 AM

I think it would be of long term benefit to you do alter your sump a little bit to stop the micro bubbles rather than constantly tweaking your plumbing?

Put in a bubble trap i.e. three glass baffles like this:

After the inlet section where the bubbles are. The water will have to travel over the first, beneath the second and over the third, usually eliminating all bubbles from going through, as they bubble up and escape. It's pretty easy to do and will mean you shouldn't have to worry about it again.

Otherwise maybe try a filtersock over the inlet to stop bubbles, but obviously will need frequent cleaning

edit: It won't let me do spaced asci art, so had to draw one with a trackpad in paint! may make no sense!

rrr757 · 03/08/2006, 10:14 AM

Thanks sebwin

A couple of questions:

1. what size holes would you drill in the inlet and how many?
2. I will try to maybe add baffles, there are some baffles before the water goes to the return pump, so i should have 2 sets of baffles, one after where the water comes in and another before where the water goes out(which is already there).

Thanks for the help, and btw thanks for the diagram, i am a much more visual person.

-RRR

sebwin · 03/08/2006, 10:19 AM

Oh, and one tiny thing, I'm sure you were getting around to doing it, but I've noticed your power extension cord is on the floor by the tank:

I'd put up a shelf beside the tank and put the cords on it, or screw the actual extension higher up on the wall, otherwise water is likely to fall on to it in the inevitable splashing that will happen = blown equipment!

Also, condensation from the sump tends to form on the powercables etc and will form drips which travel down the cord insiduosly ending up at the extension, solution = mount them above the water line of the main tank or make drip loops in the cord with a rubber band.

sebwin · 03/08/2006, 10:27 AM

The holes don't need to be large at all, sort of 3-4mm if that. One should be fine, but I put in two just to be doubly safe incase it get's blocked in the 10 seconds water uns through it during a power outage! It's just enough to let air into the pipe. Put it just below the water line, and no lower than the top of your overflow, otherwise it will keep draining to the level of the pipe hole.
BTW I am assuming when you say inlet you mean outlet i.e. the pipe which returns water to the tank from the sump.

The thing with the baffles though, is it is specifically that triple arrangement which reduces the bubbles. With normal ones, the bubbles can just go over the baffles with the water flow. However, that three set of them means the water has to very quickly go over one and straight down a considerable distance and under another one, causing the bubbles to rise up and pop on the surface. The gap between them should only be 2-3cm.

There is some more info about it on melevs sump page which is where I got the ideas to make mine:

http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

rrr757 · 03/08/2006, 11:58 AM

Yeah, actually if you look at the more recent pictures in the gallery, i have slowly been fixing it all

thanks though

My inlet, corrected outlet

Cody Ray · 03/10/2006, 02:14 PM

Sweet

Brandon M · 03/10/2006, 02:40 PM

Looks great

labragg1 · 03/10/2006, 02:51 PM

cool!!!

rrr757 · 03/10/2006, 06:54 PM

Thanks for the comments, i finally seem to be reducing the microbubbles, installed my pm skimmer and a couple of powerheads along with a heater. Here are some pics, hopefully going to get some LR this weekend and possibly some cheato for the fuge. Let me know what you all think.

Thanks
Mickey

rrr757 · 03/12/2006, 07:28 PM

Hey all, just wanted to let you know, i added about 22LBS of LR and 15 lbs of BR. Got some Cheato and rubble for the fuge. Skimmer is now up and running, and looking like its on its way. Let me know what you all think.

PatMayo · 03/12/2006, 11:47 PM

I would be sure to use GFI outlets as well. It will protect you from catastrophe.

What kind of skimmer are you running?

Nice looking tank.

Regards,

Pat

rrr757 · 03/13/2006, 07:09 AM

Hi Pat, I put a GFCI outlet to use. I need to find a cleaner way though of putting all my timers, and cords in more of an arranged way. I am using a Precision Marine skimmer. IT is fantastic.

03/08/2006, 07:51 AM	#1
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	Finally custom tank cycling w/pics PIC Intensive Hi everyone, Although i am not a newbie, i have never had a refugium sump. Its generally been a skimmer, or live rock as filtration. This is the first time that i have done anything with an overflow. Please let me know your thoughts as well as if you can help me solve some questions i still have. Some specs: Around 50 gallon Custom made semi-acrylic tank and custom wood stand 10 gallon refugium/sump from ebay(only that would fit in the stand) 60lbs live sand one 7lbs base rock Rio 2500 CSL MH 250 Watt pendant with built in 2x36watt pc Jalli 18watt pc for refugium. PM Airpowered skimmer with waste collector Wave maker outlet Top-off controller Ghetto plumbing And thats about it for now. Questions/Information: 1. Microbubbles - grrrrrr, I finally have put a flow control valve and lowered the flow pumping into the tank, my sump is really small in order for it to fit in the stand. I also split the return into the sump with a vertical bar that allows some of the air to escape up. Still have bubbles coming out so i put a sponge, and that has helped. I have heard to give it a couple of weeks and then see. It already seemed better this morning. 2. Is there a such think as a quite tank, lol. I have put a durso, slowed down the flow, its about 70% quiter now, but if you all know of anything else i can do to quite it down, that would be appreciated. 3. I have a PM skimmer, but my last reef i did was just based off of live rock and sand, and i never had a need for the skimmer, can i assume the same because i have the refugium i wont need a skimmer. Also, if i have around10% base rock how long does it take for it to become seeded and considered live rock 4. Ok, lets say the power was to go out, well it seems that my inlet to the tank from the pump actually siphons water back into the sump, if i put a U type pattern in the tubing, will that prevent the siphon? If you have any suggestion on how you have solve the problem, please let me know. Basically my sump can hold the water till the overflow line drops, but then the line into the tank from the pump will siphon water into the sump in a power loss until the water has drained pass the loc line if that makes sense. Ok, here are the pictures, i will update some more of the equipment tonight/tomorrow hopefully of some of the changes i have done with the plumbing. After painting and waiting in my entry way for 1.5 years Picture Picture Picture More to follow... Last edited by rrr757; 03/08/2006 at 08:44 AM.

03/08/2006, 07:52 AM	#2
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	My wavemaker outlet and a new top off controller that i am setting up still I thought i would put one image and if interested you all can click the links after wards or view my gallery to see more Wave Controller and Top Off Controller Various shots MH Coming on Shimmering effect 1 MH Coming on Shimmering effect 2 MH Coming Full tank Various Various Various Various Various Last edited by rrr757; 03/08/2006 at 08:50 AM.

03/08/2006, 09:50 AM	#6
sebwin Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 65	I think it would be of long term benefit to you do alter your sump a little bit to stop the micro bubbles rather than constantly tweaking your plumbing? Put in a bubble trap i.e. three glass baffles like this: After the inlet section where the bubbles are. The water will have to travel over the first, beneath the second and over the third, usually eliminating all bubbles from going through, as they bubble up and escape. It's pretty easy to do and will mean you shouldn't have to worry about it again. Otherwise maybe try a filtersock over the inlet to stop bubbles, but obviously will need frequent cleaning edit: It won't let me do spaced asci art, so had to draw one with a trackpad in paint! may make no sense! __________________ ----- Don't push the river, It flows by itself -----

03/08/2006, 10:19 AM	#8
sebwin Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 65	Oh, and one tiny thing, I'm sure you were getting around to doing it, but I've noticed your power extension cord is on the floor by the tank: I'd put up a shelf beside the tank and put the cords on it, or screw the actual extension higher up on the wall, otherwise water is likely to fall on to it in the inevitable splashing that will happen = blown equipment! Also, condensation from the sump tends to form on the powercables etc and will form drips which travel down the cord insiduosly ending up at the extension, solution = mount them above the water line of the main tank or make drip loops in the cord with a rubber band. __________________ ----- Don't push the river, It flows by itself -----

03/08/2006, 10:27 AM	#9
sebwin Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 65	The holes don't need to be large at all, sort of 3-4mm if that. One should be fine, but I put in two just to be doubly safe incase it get's blocked in the 10 seconds water uns through it during a power outage! It's just enough to let air into the pipe. Put it just below the water line, and no lower than the top of your overflow, otherwise it will keep draining to the level of the pipe hole. BTW I am assuming when you say inlet you mean outlet i.e. the pipe which returns water to the tank from the sump. The thing with the baffles though, is it is specifically that triple arrangement which reduces the bubbles. With normal ones, the bubbles can just go over the baffles with the water flow. However, that three set of them means the water has to very quickly go over one and straight down a considerable distance and under another one, causing the bubbles to rise up and pop on the surface. The gap between them should only be 2-3cm. There is some more info about it on melevs sump page which is where I got the ideas to make mine: http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html __________________ ----- Don't push the river, It flows by itself -----

03/08/2006, 07:55 AM	#3
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	Here is what the refugium/sump looked like before i started messing with the plumbing last night.

03/08/2006, 09:45 AM	#4
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	Anyone have any comments or advice?

03/08/2006, 10:14 AM	#7
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	Thanks sebwin A couple of questions: 1. what size holes would you drill in the inlet and how many? 2. I will try to maybe add baffles, there are some baffles before the water goes to the return pump, so i should have 2 sets of baffles, one after where the water comes in and another before where the water goes out(which is already there). Thanks for the help, and btw thanks for the diagram, i am a much more visual person. -RRR

03/08/2006, 11:58 AM	#10
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	Yeah, actually if you look at the more recent pictures in the gallery, i have slowly been fixing it all thanks though My inlet, corrected outlet

03/10/2006, 02:14 PM	#11
Cody Ray Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 5,101	Sweet __________________ Limit 1 stupid question per day Current Tank Info: Mr. Aqua 7.5g bowfront

03/10/2006, 02:40 PM	#12
Brandon M Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,116	Looks great __________________ Brandon Current Tank Info: 315g 84"x24"x36" FOWLR

03/10/2006, 02:51 PM	#13
labragg1 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carthage, MO Posts: 360	cool!!! __________________ skywalker Current Tank Info: 65gal RR, 29gal Sump, OCT NW-150 Skimmer, T5 Nova Extreme Lighting

03/10/2006, 06:54 PM	#14
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	Thanks for the comments, i finally seem to be reducing the microbubbles, installed my pm skimmer and a couple of powerheads along with a heater. Here are some pics, hopefully going to get some LR this weekend and possibly some cheato for the fuge. Let me know what you all think. Thanks Mickey

03/12/2006, 07:28 PM	#15
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	NEW PICTURES AND UPDATES Hey all, just wanted to let you know, i added about 22LBS of LR and 15 lbs of BR. Got some Cheato and rubble for the fuge. Skimmer is now up and running, and looking like its on its way. Let me know what you all think.

03/12/2006, 11:47 PM	#16
PatMayo Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,843	I would be sure to use GFI outlets as well. It will protect you from catastrophe. What kind of skimmer are you running? Nice looking tank. Regards, Pat __________________ 90 AGA Megaflow (Setup 1-24-06) 120 Lbs. Liverock EuroReef RS 100 Skimmer 2 X 150 MH 2 X 96 watt PC Actinic 2 Clarki Clowns (31 months old) 1 Niger Trigger (Owned 6 months) 2 Tunze 6055 PH Current Tank Info: 90 AGA Megaflow To Be Mixed Reef

03/13/2006, 07:09 AM	#17
rrr757 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 113	Hi Pat, I put a GFCI outlet to use. I need to find a cleaner way though of putting all my timers, and cords in more of an arranged way. I am using a Precision Marine skimmer. IT is fantastic.