floor support for heavy tanks...?

suprzman · 03/19/2006, 09:29 PM

Hey everybody,
I recently purchased a 120 gallon tank setup, and though its not nearly as large as the tanks on this forum, it can still weigh a hefty amount when filled with rock and water - more than half a ton.
What I wanted to know was how the floor under such huge tanks like 200 or 300 gallon tanks is supported. Do people put supports in the basements, or is it just strategic placement of the tank?
What I'm afraid of is the floor under the tank starting to sag or get weighted down - structural damage.
Thanks for any info!
Z.

jnfallon · 03/19/2006, 10:02 PM

Yes, we do whatever to support the floor. I built a fully headered wall directly below the tank to support my 375g.

I have had several tanks about 120g and did not support the floors/joists and did not experience sagging. I think the general rule is to keep it on an outside wall with the joists running perpendicular. Also probably a good idea to not put directly over a picture window or other large cutout on the lower floor.

HTH

dagra27407 · 03/19/2006, 10:48 PM

well i have a 180g in my one story house with a crawl space. since my house was built in the 50's i thought it would be best to support the floor. The lfs said it was fine they put them in houses every day w/no problems but just to be safe i crawled under the house with two 8x8 treated lumber and 2 16 ton car jacks. I ran one 8x8 on the ground and one against the floor joists and used the jacks to add a little support between them. I also have the tank on an outside wall. So if your like me and just want that extra peice of mind $30 bucks and a trip to wall-mart and lowes will give it to you.

suprzman · 03/20/2006, 01:32 PM

Thanks guys for the responses.
So even with a 120 gallon tank you guys would suggest some support. The basement underneath the first floor of the house is a regular height room, so for support underneath that, would i have to add columns/vertical supports? Are there any other ways of adding that extra support?
One idea that was presented to me was putting the tank on a wide platform, something like a 6x6 wooden stage, with some thickness to it. This is with the idea of spreading the weight over a larger area, so not putting too much pressure on just one area of the floor. What do you guys think of that idea? I'm not sure that distributing the weight would be as easy as that, but I'd love to hear some more opinions.
Thanks,
Z.

suprzman · 03/20/2006, 09:54 PM

Dagra, what do those car jacks look like? Do they look like the type used to change tires? Or is it another design?

inlandreef · 03/21/2006, 12:32 AM

I am getting a 180 gallon tank and I plan on supporting the floor. I have a crawl space also. My 55 rocks back and forth a little bit when someone walks by. I plan on using treated 4x4.

thedogofwar · 03/21/2006, 01:51 PM

You can try sistering the floor joists. It's a common method of reducing deflection. Sistering is simply adding additional joists to the side(s) of the existing joists.

suprzman · 03/21/2006, 03:03 PM

Are those sistered joists attached to each other? Or is it just placement of them next to each other that adds support?
Thanks.

Mr.Lloyd · 03/21/2006, 03:09 PM

I placed two 4x4 10ft timbers at 90 degrees to the floor timbers and held them up with blocks and jacks.$100 worth of stuff in a crawl space can keep thousands of $ out of it.My tank supported is an 8 ft long 300g.

thedogofwar · 03/21/2006, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by suprzman
Are those sistered joists attached to each other? Or is it just placement of them next to each other that adds support?
Thanks.

The sistered joists are nailed directly to the existing joists.

If 120 is as big as you plan to go, that should be enough, however if you think you could end up upsizing, I would just go the distance and add a header supported by jack studs below.

I will be using them to support my floor.

suprzman · 03/21/2006, 08:52 PM

Thanks everyone.
If you guys want to see a hot debate going on about this same topic that I posted on DIY,
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=805768
Z.

Fignewton · 03/21/2006, 09:34 PM

I used a floor jack from Home Depot. It was only like $30. It's basically a pole that unscrews to match the height from the floor to the joist. My tank sits over an area of the basement that isn't used so it was a no brainer. The tank is on an outside wall as well, but I figured for piece of mind, it was $30 well spent. The jack supports upto 14,000lbs so I think I'm good, lol.

Fignewton · 03/21/2006, 09:36 PM

Oops. Should have read the link to that DIY post before I posted!

suprzman · 03/21/2006, 11:04 PM

Haha yeah Fignewton, thats what all the rage is about on that other thread. I found the same floor jack online, on the Home Deopot website. Did you put the jacks under a square piece of wood, or right onto the beams in the floor?
Thanks,
Z.

Fignewton · 03/21/2006, 11:37 PM

I actually used a piece of wide angle iron that spanned two joists and put the jack in the middle.

thedogofwar · 03/22/2006, 07:01 AM

Those are the jacks I was reffering to. I misnamed them jack studs when they actuallt jack posts, or lally jacks as I know them by.

I'll be using a pair those with a doble 2x6 header running perpendicular to the floor joists. At the base I'll use patio blocks or the bases designed for 4x4's and decks to disperse the weight there. Basically just like is shown in the first diagram of that other thread.

SAT · 03/22/2006, 09:31 AM

Any floor that can pass a code inspection can handle a 120G. It's about the same weight as 6 adults standing close together. You wouldn't expect structural damage even if they were to jump (and I have yet to see an aquarium jump

).

However, it is normal for floors to sag a little, whether you put load on them or not. You can avoid that with the proposed jack system, which I think is overkill in this case, or you can just use shims to straighten out the tank.

I have a pair of I-beams under my 300G... but that's a much heavier tank.

suprzman · 03/22/2006, 11:51 AM

Stuart, I think you're right in the fact that it probably is overkill.....but then again i'm living in my parents' home....
If anything happened to occur, overkill would save me from being killed

So basically I'm just thinking about overboard protection as a form of insurance.
What is a shim? And how does it straighten out the tank?
Thanks,
Z.

SAT · 03/22/2006, 12:08 PM

A shim is just a sliver of material that you use to fill a gap. For instance, if your tank is 1/8" lower at one end than the other, you would stick a sliver of wood under the low end to level it out. You'll probably have to do that whether you use jacks or not... few floors are completely level.

The real trick is to make sure the weight is evenly distributed over as large an area is possible.

suprzman · 03/22/2006, 12:18 PM

Stuart, I agree.
One of the things I was considering was putting the tank on a large base, sort of like a stage: A rectangle of wood much longer than the base of the tank, and perhaps a bit wider as well. This with the hope of spreading the weight of the tank over a larger area, and decreasing the pressure felt at any one point. However I'm not sure how much the weight would evenly distribute over that wood, and if it would just concentrate in the middle of that piece of wood anyway. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Z.

SAT · 03/22/2006, 12:22 PM

That seems like a good idea. I suggest a piece of 3/4" plywood.

suprzman · 03/22/2006, 12:28 PM

You think the weight would be properly distributed over the length of the plywood? Or would it be more likely to push down in the center of the plywood itself, possible causing that to sag?
Thanks,
Z.

SAT · 03/22/2006, 12:30 PM

3/4" plywood is pretty rigid, much more so than most floor materials. Use exterior grade so it won't come apart if it gets wet.

Hardip · 03/22/2006, 07:10 PM

For my 400/500g tank, I am looking at creating shuttering support under the joists and filling it with concrete. This is the only sure way.

With my current 180g tank, I am a bit suspicious of the floor even though I have the tank against one of the walls that supports the joists.

03/19/2006, 09:29 PM	#1
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	floor support for heavy tanks...? Hey everybody, I recently purchased a 120 gallon tank setup, and though its not nearly as large as the tanks on this forum, it can still weigh a hefty amount when filled with rock and water - more than half a ton. What I wanted to know was how the floor under such huge tanks like 200 or 300 gallon tanks is supported. Do people put supports in the basements, or is it just strategic placement of the tank? What I'm afraid of is the floor under the tank starting to sag or get weighted down - structural damage. Thanks for any info! Z.

03/21/2006, 12:32 AM	#6
inlandreef Mike Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Lodi, Ca Posts: 1,058	I am getting a 180 gallon tank and I plan on supporting the floor. I have a crawl space also. My 55 rocks back and forth a little bit when someone walks by. I plan on using treated 4x4. __________________ I never drink water because of the disgusting things that fish do in it. - WC. Fields Current Tank Info: 120 with a 50G sump/fuge, Reef Octopus 150 Skimmer, Reef Octopus Reactor, Tek Elite 8x54 T5 fixture

03/21/2006, 03:09 PM	#9
Mr.Lloyd Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Washington,GA Posts: 1,654	I placed two 4x4 10ft timbers at 90 degrees to the floor timbers and held them up with blocks and jacks.$100 worth of stuff in a crawl space can keep thousands of $ out of it.My tank supported is an 8 ft long 300g. __________________ Lloyd Current Tank Info: Largest reef tank 300 gallons set up in fall 2003,lots of bells and whistles;could have sent a kid to college for at least 2 years for what it has cost so far!

03/22/2006, 09:31 AM	#17
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	Any floor that can pass a code inspection can handle a 120G. It's about the same weight as 6 adults standing close together. You wouldn't expect structural damage even if they were to jump (and I have yet to see an aquarium jump ). However, it is normal for floors to sag a little, whether you put load on them or not. You can avoid that with the proposed jack system, which I think is overkill in this case, or you can just use shims to straighten out the tank. I have a pair of I-beams under my 300G... but that's a much heavier tank. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

03/22/2006, 12:08 PM	#19
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	A shim is just a sliver of material that you use to fill a gap. For instance, if your tank is 1/8" lower at one end than the other, you would stick a sliver of wood under the low end to level it out. You'll probably have to do that whether you use jacks or not... few floors are completely level. The real trick is to make sure the weight is evenly distributed over as large an area is possible. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

03/19/2006, 10:02 PM	#2
jnfallon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montauk, NY Posts: 1,573	Yes, we do whatever to support the floor. I built a fully headered wall directly below the tank to support my 375g. I have had several tanks about 120g and did not support the floors/joists and did not experience sagging. I think the general rule is to keep it on an outside wall with the joists running perpendicular. Also probably a good idea to not put directly over a picture window or other large cutout on the lower floor. HTH

03/19/2006, 10:48 PM	#3
dagra27407 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 7	well i have a 180g in my one story house with a crawl space. since my house was built in the 50's i thought it would be best to support the floor. The lfs said it was fine they put them in houses every day w/no problems but just to be safe i crawled under the house with two 8x8 treated lumber and 2 16 ton car jacks. I ran one 8x8 on the ground and one against the floor joists and used the jacks to add a little support between them. I also have the tank on an outside wall. So if your like me and just want that extra peice of mind $30 bucks and a trip to wall-mart and lowes will give it to you.

03/20/2006, 01:32 PM	#4
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	Thanks guys for the responses. So even with a 120 gallon tank you guys would suggest some support. The basement underneath the first floor of the house is a regular height room, so for support underneath that, would i have to add columns/vertical supports? Are there any other ways of adding that extra support? One idea that was presented to me was putting the tank on a wide platform, something like a 6x6 wooden stage, with some thickness to it. This is with the idea of spreading the weight over a larger area, so not putting too much pressure on just one area of the floor. What do you guys think of that idea? I'm not sure that distributing the weight would be as easy as that, but I'd love to hear some more opinions. Thanks, Z.

03/20/2006, 09:54 PM	#5
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	Dagra, what do those car jacks look like? Do they look like the type used to change tires? Or is it another design?

03/21/2006, 01:51 PM	#7
thedogofwar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Rock, AR Posts: 2,034	You can try sistering the floor joists. It's a common method of reducing deflection. Sistering is simply adding additional joists to the side(s) of the existing joists.

03/21/2006, 03:03 PM	#8
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	Are those sistered joists attached to each other? Or is it just placement of them next to each other that adds support? Thanks.

03/21/2006, 08:52 PM	#11
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	Thanks everyone. If you guys want to see a hot debate going on about this same topic that I posted on DIY, http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=805768 Z.

03/21/2006, 09:34 PM	#12
Fignewton Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 54	I used a floor jack from Home Depot. It was only like $30. It's basically a pole that unscrews to match the height from the floor to the joist. My tank sits over an area of the basement that isn't used so it was a no brainer. The tank is on an outside wall as well, but I figured for piece of mind, it was $30 well spent. The jack supports upto 14,000lbs so I think I'm good, lol.

03/21/2006, 09:36 PM	#13
Fignewton Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 54	Oops. Should have read the link to that DIY post before I posted!

03/21/2006, 11:04 PM	#14
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	Haha yeah Fignewton, thats what all the rage is about on that other thread. I found the same floor jack online, on the Home Deopot website. Did you put the jacks under a square piece of wood, or right onto the beams in the floor? Thanks, Z.

03/21/2006, 11:37 PM	#15
Fignewton Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 54	I actually used a piece of wide angle iron that spanned two joists and put the jack in the middle.

03/22/2006, 07:01 AM	#16
thedogofwar Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Rock, AR Posts: 2,034	Those are the jacks I was reffering to. I misnamed them jack studs when they actuallt jack posts, or lally jacks as I know them by. I'll be using a pair those with a doble 2x6 header running perpendicular to the floor joists. At the base I'll use patio blocks or the bases designed for 4x4's and decks to disperse the weight there. Basically just like is shown in the first diagram of that other thread.

03/22/2006, 11:51 AM	#18
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	Stuart, I think you're right in the fact that it probably is overkill.....but then again i'm living in my parents' home.... If anything happened to occur, overkill would save me from being killed So basically I'm just thinking about overboard protection as a form of insurance. What is a shim? And how does it straighten out the tank? Thanks, Z.

03/22/2006, 12:18 PM	#20
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	Stuart, I agree. One of the things I was considering was putting the tank on a large base, sort of like a stage: A rectangle of wood much longer than the base of the tank, and perhaps a bit wider as well. This with the hope of spreading the weight of the tank over a larger area, and decreasing the pressure felt at any one point. However I'm not sure how much the weight would evenly distribute over that wood, and if it would just concentrate in the middle of that piece of wood anyway. Any ideas? Thanks, Z.

03/22/2006, 12:22 PM	#21
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	That seems like a good idea. I suggest a piece of 3/4" plywood. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

03/22/2006, 12:28 PM	#22
suprzman Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 246	You think the weight would be properly distributed over the length of the plywood? Or would it be more likely to push down in the center of the plywood itself, possible causing that to sag? Thanks, Z.

03/22/2006, 12:30 PM	#23
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	3/4" plywood is pretty rigid, much more so than most floor materials. Use exterior grade so it won't come apart if it gets wet. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

03/22/2006, 07:10 PM	#24
Hardip Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 30	For my 400/500g tank, I am looking at creating shuttering support under the joists and filling it with concrete. This is the only sure way. With my current 180g tank, I am a bit suspicious of the floor even though I have the tank against one of the walls that supports the joists.