no sump in my reef tank

chaaaassss · 03/25/2006, 01:38 PM

Need to know if I can maintain my reef tank without a sump.
Any suggestions how? Presently removed sump and replaced
with two 204 fluval canisters....Have an hang on back protein
skimmer and a hang on back refugium. Been dosing with Kalkwasser but now noticing a covering on top of tank might
be the result of dosing without sump with returns...please
respond.............thanks

snakeklr · 03/25/2006, 01:47 PM

To Reef Central

what size sytem do you have? what are you planning on your sysrem being? Fish Only? Reef? Bare Bottom? Subtrate Bottom?
how long has the sytem been up and running? we need more infor on your system to help. depending on the size you sometimnes dont need a sump but otheres you do. The more water volume you have the easier it will be to control/maintain your system.

starmanres · 03/25/2006, 01:50 PM

When I began in the hobby 25 years ago, we didn't have sumps - of course, we didn't have skimmers, Live Rock or massive lighting options either.

I think you could make it without a sump but you are going to have issues. First, all evaporation will show up in the main tank. Secondly, all additives would go directly in the main tank which could cause issues such as the Kalkwasser residue you have already noticed.

I also think you lose that beneficial "skimming" that occurs as the water flows over the overflow and the water's surface is broken.

A good side would be that you never have to worry about flooding the room if your power goes out and the siphon breaks fail...

Good luck and keep us updated.

Robert

chaaaassss · 03/25/2006, 02:19 PM

Have been running system 3 years with returns. Problem
was live in coop with lots of neighbors and coop board
....take overflowed twice in a week and shut down sump
with pump and replaced with two fluval systems. Was at NeracII
and Anthony Calfo and Charles Sprung suggested to remove
the fluval as they only remove the oxygen in water. Anthony
thinks can use one with Rowaphos...Have 58 gallon with live
rock and lots of soft corals some stony....not happy with present
skimmer--excaliber.....anthony suggested Aqua C romora skimmer.

starmanres · 03/25/2006, 02:43 PM

My Sump makes almost no noise. In fact, the loudest things on my entire system are the fans that cool my lights attached to my canopy.

Are you using Durso's on your overflows? If so, make sure you have air holes in the tops so they don't gurgle.

I would keep the sump if you can. There are several ways to minimize sound issues.

HTH

Robert

rjwilson37 · 03/25/2006, 03:14 PM

My whole setup is very quiet, that is what some like most about my tank. I have a 90g AGA w/built in overflow and the mega flow kit that has the durso standpipe. The sump makes water changes and dosing a snap, I would not live without one as well as having a refuge area.

End result is a healthy happy more stable system.

mandrin13 · 03/25/2006, 04:01 PM

I have a fifty five gallon reef with NO sump.I cant find one that will fit in the cabinet.I have an emporer 400 bio wheel filter.

The tank has about 75 lbs of lr,65-70 lbs of ls.A yellow tang,foxface,sand sifting goby,damsel(i hate damsels,will never get them again)and2 clarkii's.

I have 2 frogspawns,huge xenia,torch coral,fugia plate,2 red and blur ricordia's,a florida ric,and more corals that i cant remember now.

Inverts:5 blue legged hermit crabs,3 turbo snails,1 pistol shrimp,1 banded coral shrimp,1 cleaner shrimp,others.

All is fine tanks been running like this for almost a year.

Emporer 400,HO prizm skimmer,9 watt uv sterilizer,heater,250 watts of light.(all hang on back)

snakeklr · 03/25/2006, 10:31 PM

my sump is the same as rjwilson37, and it makes no noise. I have siphone overflow tube with a mag 9.5 return. works great. on my 55 i had it had only a penguin 300 on it no sump but in it all i had was a damsel fish. but in my 125 i have lots of fish's. but yes you can get away with no sump. if your having problems of overflowing then give it a try. aint nothing written in stone how we have to run our systems.

sjm817 · 03/25/2006, 11:34 PM

If you guys really want quiet, ditch those Mag pumps and replace with Eheim. Night and day difference.

rjwilson37 · 03/27/2006, 12:08 AM

I don't really hear my tank except a slight water noise from the water going into the sump from the overflow and the 2 fans in my canopy.

larac · 03/27/2006, 04:15 AM

I have a 75G with an Aqua C Pro skimmer. I've never had a sump, no problems.

sjm817 · 03/27/2006, 06:01 AM

Some people seem to be lucky with their Mags. Maybe the older ones? My Mag7 could be heard from the next floor. By far the loudest part of the system. Many people have had the same complaint. The Eheim 1260 that replaced it is so much better. Much better flow and noise is no comparison.

zemuron114 · 03/27/2006, 06:56 AM

i have 55 reef with no sump. HOB skimmer and Refuge. Maintains levels really well. I change water once a month maybe (10-20%)
Can be done.. a sump isn't a must, it just increases water volume and stores equipment

george_grat · 03/27/2006, 07:04 AM

Dear chaaaassss,

I have 90g reef tank and Red Sea Berlin skimmer for 250 gallons for more than 6 years. So don't worry.

Dubbin1 · 03/27/2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
If you guys really want quiet, ditch those Mag pumps and replace with Eheim. Night and day difference.

Hmm I have 2 mag drives on my system and they are quiet as can be.

sjm817 · 03/27/2006, 08:39 AM

They seem to be hit or miss. Some people seem to get ones that are quiet, others dont. I've owned Mag3/5/7/9.5. None of them were quiet. The 9.5 was actually the best, the 7 the worst.

Razzagas · 03/27/2006, 09:17 AM

rjwilson37-- is your line from the overflow to the sump submerged?

fours2many · 03/27/2006, 09:53 AM

When I had my first tank in the 80's it was all about filters. No skimmers besides the ones with the little airstones that really didn't do much. Then came along the wet dry trickle filter with bioballs. Which was the hotest craze. I got rid of my tank in the 90's some time due to family issues. But my tank was in great shape. Everything grew and was healthy.

Anyway, since starting again, things are really different. I have no sump, just live rock and lots of movement. Things are really growing and healthy again. Just started up the 75 lastnight. I think the best new thing that is out is the lights. Lights and movement as well as water changes is all that I think is needed.

rjwilson37 · 03/29/2006, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Razzagas
rjwilson37-- is your line from the overflow to the sump submerged?

Yes, it is aimed downward and half way down in the water on the skimmer side of my sump/refuge.

Electrobes · 03/29/2006, 06:39 AM

After using a sump for a while I actually purposely went sumpless... and I love it. On my 40g BR I have an AquaClear 110, a CPR 2R+ skimmer, a Phosban Reactor running carbon, and a SEIO 820.

My tank is doing great and I do not miss the sump one bit.

03/25/2006, 01:38 PM	#1
chaaaassss Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 6	no sump in my reef tank Need to know if I can maintain my reef tank without a sump. Any suggestions how? Presently removed sump and replaced with two 204 fluval canisters....Have an hang on back protein skimmer and a hang on back refugium. Been dosing with Kalkwasser but now noticing a covering on top of tank might be the result of dosing without sump with returns...please respond.............thanks

03/25/2006, 01:47 PM	#2
snakeklr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 215	*To Reef Central* what size sytem do you have? what are you planning on your sysrem being? Fish Only? Reef? Bare Bottom? Subtrate Bottom? how long has the sytem been up and running? we need more infor on your system to help. depending on the size you sometimnes dont need a sump but otheres you do. The more water volume you have the easier it will be to control/maintain your system. __________________ We can do it the easy way, Or the hard way. Current Tank Info: 120g Lee Mar tank

03/25/2006, 01:50 PM	#3
starmanres Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma Posts: 587	When I began in the hobby 25 years ago, we didn't have sumps - of course, we didn't have skimmers, Live Rock or massive lighting options either. I think you could make it without a sump but you are going to have issues. First, all evaporation will show up in the main tank. Secondly, all additives would go directly in the main tank which could cause issues such as the Kalkwasser residue you have already noticed. I also think you lose that beneficial "skimming" that occurs as the water flows over the overflow and the water's surface is broken. A good side would be that you never have to worry about flooding the room if your power goes out and the siphon breaks fail... Good luck and keep us updated. Robert __________________ "I know funny... I'm a clownfish!" Current Tank Info: 120 g RR Acrylic tank

03/25/2006, 02:43 PM	#5
starmanres Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma Posts: 587	My Sump makes almost no noise. In fact, the loudest things on my entire system are the fans that cool my lights attached to my canopy. Are you using Durso's on your overflows? If so, make sure you have air holes in the tops so they don't gurgle. I would keep the sump if you can. There are several ways to minimize sound issues. HTH Robert __________________ "I know funny... I'm a clownfish!" Current Tank Info: 120 g RR Acrylic tank

03/25/2006, 03:14 PM	#6
rjwilson37 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: West Michigan Posts: 7,104	My whole setup is very quiet, that is what some like most about my tank. I have a 90g AGA w/built in overflow and the mega flow kit that has the durso standpipe. The sump makes water changes and dosing a snap, I would not live without one as well as having a refuge area. End result is a healthy happy more stable system. __________________ Isn't life just wonderful. 29g Biocube Standard Pump Standard 72w PC Lighting Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube Reef Tank

03/25/2006, 02:19 PM	#4
chaaaassss Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 6	Have been running system 3 years with returns. Problem was live in coop with lots of neighbors and coop board ....take overflowed twice in a week and shut down sump with pump and replaced with two fluval systems. Was at NeracII and Anthony Calfo and Charles Sprung suggested to remove the fluval as they only remove the oxygen in water. Anthony thinks can use one with Rowaphos...Have 58 gallon with live rock and lots of soft corals some stony....not happy with present skimmer--excaliber.....anthony suggested Aqua C romora skimmer.

03/25/2006, 04:01 PM	#7
mandrin13 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Valrico FL southish of Tampa Posts: 258	I have a fifty five gallon reef with NO sump.I cant find one that will fit in the cabinet.I have an emporer 400 bio wheel filter. The tank has about 75 lbs of lr,65-70 lbs of ls.A yellow tang,foxface,sand sifting goby,damsel(i hate damsels,will never get them again)and2 clarkii's. I have 2 frogspawns,huge xenia,torch coral,fugia plate,2 red and blur ricordia's,a florida ric,and more corals that i cant remember now. Inverts:5 blue legged hermit crabs,3 turbo snails,1 pistol shrimp,1 banded coral shrimp,1 cleaner shrimp,others. All is fine tanks been running like this for almost a year. Emporer 400,HO prizm skimmer,9 watt uv sterilizer,heater,250 watts of light.(all hang on back) __________________ Showers are for dirty people!!! If you only have one hand will second hand smoking affect you? Current Tank Info: I dont have a tank,I just like to be on this website

03/25/2006, 10:31 PM	#8
snakeklr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 215	my sump is the same as rjwilson37, and it makes no noise. I have siphone overflow tube with a mag 9.5 return. works great. on my 55 i had it had only a penguin 300 on it no sump but in it all i had was a damsel fish. but in my 125 i have lots of fish's. but yes you can get away with no sump. if your having problems of overflowing then give it a try. aint nothing written in stone how we have to run our systems. __________________ We can do it the easy way, Or the hard way. Current Tank Info: 120g Lee Mar tank

03/25/2006, 11:34 PM	#9
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	If you guys really want quiet, ditch those Mag pumps and replace with Eheim. Night and day difference. __________________ - Scott

03/27/2006, 12:08 AM	#10
rjwilson37 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: West Michigan Posts: 7,104	I don't really hear my tank except a slight water noise from the water going into the sump from the overflow and the 2 fans in my canopy. __________________ Isn't life just wonderful. 29g Biocube Standard Pump Standard 72w PC Lighting Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube Reef Tank

03/27/2006, 04:15 AM	#11
larac Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: MO Posts: 160	I have a 75G with an Aqua C Pro skimmer. I've never had a sump, no problems.

03/27/2006, 06:01 AM	#12
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Some people seem to be lucky with their Mags. Maybe the older ones? My Mag7 could be heard from the next floor. By far the loudest part of the system. Many people have had the same complaint. The Eheim 1260 that replaced it is so much better. Much better flow and noise is no comparison. __________________ - Scott

03/27/2006, 06:56 AM	#13
zemuron114 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Pilgrim State (Mass) Posts: 4,039	i have 55 reef with no sump. HOB skimmer and Refuge. Maintains levels really well. I change water once a month maybe (10-20%) Can be done.. a sump isn't a must, it just increases water volume and stores equipment

03/27/2006, 07:04 AM	#14
george_grat Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Athens Posts: 140	Dear chaaaassss, I have 90g reef tank and Red Sea Berlin skimmer for 250 gallons for more than 6 years. So don't worry. __________________ G.R.A.T. the Greek Current Tank Info: G.R.A.T. the Greek, 90g Reef Tank, 8x T5 (x54Watt), 1x Fluval 303 (Filter), 1x Proffessional II (Filter), 1x Aquanetics VU Lamp, 1x Red Sea "BERLIN" Skimmer 250gal, 1x Aqua Medic Ca reactor 400, 1x Teco RA-240 Refrigerator, Aqua Medic Ph

03/27/2006, 08:39 AM	#16
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	They seem to be hit or miss. Some people seem to get ones that are quiet, others dont. I've owned Mag3/5/7/9.5. None of them were quiet. The 9.5 was actually the best, the 7 the worst. __________________ - Scott

03/27/2006, 09:17 AM	#17
Razzagas Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 653	rjwilson37-- is your line from the overflow to the sump submerged?

03/27/2006, 09:53 AM	#18
fours2many Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 385	I am newer to the boards, but not saltwater When I had my first tank in the 80's it was all about filters. No skimmers besides the ones with the little airstones that really didn't do much. Then came along the wet dry trickle filter with bioballs. Which was the hotest craze. I got rid of my tank in the 90's some time due to family issues. But my tank was in great shape. Everything grew and was healthy. Anyway, since starting again, things are really different. I have no sump, just live rock and lots of movement. Things are really growing and healthy again. Just started up the 75 lastnight. I think the best new thing that is out is the lights. Lights and movement as well as water changes is all that I think is needed.

03/29/2006, 06:39 AM	#20
Electrobes Montipora type guy Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 2,945	After using a sump for a while I actually purposely went sumpless... and I love it. On my 40g BR I have an AquaClear 110, a CPR 2R+ skimmer, a Phosban Reactor running carbon, and a SEIO 820. My tank is doing great and I do not miss the sump one bit. __________________ Christian Current Tank Info: 100G Half Cylinder