nitrates.. in the 40's! what am i missing??

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 07:43 AM

I have a 45 gal. bow front, i added a corallife 65 skimmer 6 days ago, there are NO fish in my tank.

1 anemone
15 hermits
5 snails

I added the skimmer to lower my nitrates and i thought it was working, then today i do a test and it reads 40!!

what am i missing???

I havent put food in the tank in days

mbbuna · 04/02/2006, 07:59 AM

a skimmer wont physically remove nitrates. it will remove compounds that if left in the tank will eventually be broken down to nitrates.

i would do a few water changes

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 08:05 AM

argh. i had this prob. last week changed almost 50%!

thought i had a hold on it. nothing dead in the tank either

my lfs's r/o machine broke friday. hope hope hope its fixed tomorrow

frank2926 · 04/02/2006, 08:19 AM

Ask your lfs if they are selling you rodi water or just ro ....big difference. my lfs just used ro water and the nitrates out where 20ppm. Sounds like if you have live rock it may not be done cycling. also how much are you feeding ....anemone poop like horses.

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 10:39 AM

i feed the anemone about 1/3 a silverslide every 3rd or 4th day
they really do poop like horses lol

ill ask my lfs that today!!

My rocks gotta be done cycling, its been 5 months...

Brandon's Reef · 04/02/2006, 10:46 AM

This may not be the case but I have been seeing a lot of nitrates are too high threads. Does any body think it could be the changing temprature that is throwing every thing out of wack.

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 10:57 AM

i donno... i just called my lfs and theyre r/o machine is still broke. (hate to see theyre tanks right now its been over a week)

I cant wait, whats up with the walmart r/o water? thinking of running up there, ill still have to age my salt if i go this route so ill still need two days

frank2926 · 04/02/2006, 12:11 PM

have you tried blowing the rocks off behind and under them as well?

Paulairduck · 04/02/2006, 12:33 PM

it measures O on the tds meter, I have been using it while I save up for the new rodi sytem and have seen no ill effects!!!!

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 01:49 PM

ok. i bought a turkey baster (50 cents!) and ten gal of r/o water. question...

i tested it and it reads total alkalinity/buffering compacity at zero. is this right?
nirates and nitrites 0
ammonnia - 0

this is before salt. warming the water up, its cold!

edit...

the tukey baster i bought to squirt off my star mat that hasent opened in weeks due to a heater failure.. i should clean off the rest of the rocks too? they are dirty.. this wont spike the nitrates anymore will it? will wait till i know for sure

frank2926 · 04/02/2006, 01:58 PM

no the dirt on rocks is detritus which is contributing to the nitrates.
Blow off the rocks under and behind as best you can. I use a power head and hold it. let it settle about 15 mins then vacuum substrate and do water change. then change any filter media about an hour after doing water change.

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 02:10 PM

um... im really learly on vacumming my substrate.

ok.. i had this tank about 5 months now. had me an anemone, a maroon clown and 3 shrimp. i never vacuummed the substrate

I was at the store one day two weeks ago and picked one up. i used it next water change and it was descusting how much stuff i pulled up.

The next day a shrimp died. i had tested early that week and everything was in normal ranges. after pump incident it was spiked to nearly 40. ive been fighting nitrates ever since. first i did 2 water changes, then i bought a skimmer.. i had it under control, back down to around 10. now today i tested it with a new kit, and it was back up to 40! (other test shows 30's)

I just am kinda scared of the gravel pump.... i could try to use it lightly. water change in 2 days from now unless things get crazy with nitrates

Ill do this the day i do a water change. waters to cold and salts to 'new' today

dfcjr · 04/02/2006, 02:32 PM

You can vacuum your substrate depending on what you have just dont vacuum more than say 25% that way you dont get rid of the nitrifying bacteria.im using cc right now(i know!!!) and i vacuum mine every other week with my water change and it keeps my nitrates at zero.The bacteria bounce right back.

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 02:38 PM

ill give it one more shot. since my fish is in a diff. tank the only thing id freak out on is my anemone... ill let you guys know how it go's wish i had me a digital nitrate test, dont know what to trust anyways

frank2926 · 04/02/2006, 03:54 PM

If you do not have a dsb, and have 1lb of live rock per gallon and just have large aragonite type of a substrate then vacuum away.
this maybe your problem. Large substrate is a detrius trap especially if you do not vacuum it often.

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 03:57 PM

i dont know what dsb stands for... my substrate is two parts sand one part crushed coral... (grrrr... my lfs never told me 'live sand' even existed when i started this adventure) so the top is pretty large pieces

my rocks.. i cant remember now, but im a few pounds light of having 45 pounds, not to far off. thwy are dirty, i squirted them a few times

trying to keep my hands out of the water so my skimmer keeps going.

thats a few weeks ago.....

im planning on adding about 15 pounds of base LR in a few days.. also ripping off the back section of the tank, putting the skimmer on the back and adding 2 maxi jets.. will new LR cause me any reprossions if i dont go crazy?

frank2926 · 04/02/2006, 04:22 PM

Looks like your sand bed is deep but not deep or fine enough.
DSB = deep sand bed ...which needs to be at least 5 inches deep to be effective. but also needs to be fine sand not large . there can be some large mixed in but should be less than 30 percent.
Also the large aragonite helps to trap and hold the detrius and then is just decaying there and contributing your nitrate problem.

Swanwillow · 04/02/2006, 04:34 PM

I don't have a deep sand bed-its about 3 inches deep. so, every time I do a water change, I stir the sand bed.

you know, in your case I'm going to advise this for short-term to help remove the detrious. a hang on back filter. get powerheads BLOWING AWAY at the rock, to kick up all the junk with a really powerful HOB filter going. do this daily. the rocks should come clean. do it for a week, then remove the filter (or keep it, without the filter media) every time you do this, its going to look nasty. clean out the filtration media about one hour after each time doing this. your NOT using it as a filter, just use it kinda like a 'sock' to pull things outta the tank with quick.

once/week water changes, and stir up your sandbed every time. you can start slowly taking out the bigger sand chunks if you want. as long as you stir it up good each time you do a water change, you should be ok. oh, but only stir it up like someone ^ said;25% a time or thereabouts.

frank2926 · 04/02/2006, 04:41 PM

his sand bed is really not live ...if it where he would not have the nitrate problem he is having. Therefore vacuuming all of it will hurt nothing. Not stir it VACUUM it.

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 05:13 PM

found a dead snail, not sure if its the cause or the effect. can 1 snail spike nitrates real bad?

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 05:18 PM

i was thinking about buying a filter anyways.. I kinda have one that vcame with the tank. i change the filter floss once a week... see pic

im ripping this off in a few days... ill get a good hang on filter and just change the filter after im done cleaning the rocks

bertoni · 04/02/2006, 05:18 PM

The crushed coral can accumulate detritus, which then rots and might help cause a nitrate problem. I ditched mine for this reason. One snail isn't going to cause that kind of problem unless it was huge.

You can try water changes, but the nitrate level usually jumps back up very quickly. I wouldn't change more than 25% in one shot, to reduce any possible shock.

This article has a lot of ideas:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 05:27 PM

im at a loss. if it werent for the anemone id just go nuts. i can lose all the hermits and snails and not be bothered.

so...

Im going to turn on a hang on filter
spray my rocks
wait for it to settle
vacuumme my substrate
change my water
cross my fingers

i still hafta wait till the waters ready

anybody know about the alkalinity question? should it read 0 in r/o water?

TOURKID · 04/02/2006, 05:32 PM

what about kents nitrate absorber rock looking things?

Me No Nemo · 04/02/2006, 05:43 PM

Do you have any sponges in your system? If so, they could be part of the problem. Get a PURA filter pad and use it in your filter to catch the organics after you blow off the rocks. They're incredible for organics removal. Do make sure that the water has a way to get around the pad and not overflow as they pick up so much that they often get blocked. I'd also clean them every day for the first couple of days at least. They last about a month, but in the beginning they get very nasty, very fast. Also, I would suggest getting rid of that crushed coral as Jonathan suggested. I'd add some live sand, a bit at a time, if your lfs sells it (not the bag stuff, actual live sand). Make sure you have adequate flow and do a large water change as opposed to several smaller one. HTH

04/02/2006, 07:43 AM	#1
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	nitrates.. in the 40's! what am i missing?? I have a 45 gal. bow front, i added a corallife 65 skimmer 6 days ago, there are NO fish in my tank. 1 anemone 15 hermits 5 snails I added the skimmer to lower my nitrates and i thought it was working, then today i do a test and it reads 40!! what am i missing??? I havent put food in the tank in days

04/02/2006, 08:05 AM	#3
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	argh. i had this prob. last week changed almost 50%! thought i had a hold on it. nothing dead in the tank either my lfs's r/o machine broke friday. hope hope hope its fixed tomorrow __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 10:39 AM	#5
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	i feed the anemone about 1/3 a silverslide every 3rd or 4th day they really do poop like horses lol ill ask my lfs that today!! My rocks gotta be done cycling, its been 5 months... __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 10:46 AM	#6
Brandon's Reef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orange Park, FL Posts: 766	This may not be the case but I have been seeing a lot of nitrates are too high threads. Does any body think it could be the changing temprature that is throwing every thing out of wack. __________________ Brandon Fields, PROUD HURRICANE SURVIVOR Current Tank Info: 24gallon Aquapod 65 coralife super skimmer 1x150w 14k metal halide on 30g oceanic stand 54gallon corner bowfront RR, Current Outer Orbit 1x150 HQI PC supplemented, ATO, Deltec AP600 skimmer,100 pounds of Marshal Island Live Rock, SPS domintated

04/02/2006, 10:57 AM	#7
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	i donno... i just called my lfs and theyre r/o machine is still broke. (hate to see theyre tanks right now its been over a week) I cant wait, whats up with the walmart r/o water? thinking of running up there, ill still have to age my salt if i go this route so ill still need two days __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 07:59 AM	#2
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	a skimmer wont physically remove nitrates. it will remove compounds that if left in the tank will eventually be broken down to nitrates. i would do a few water changes

04/02/2006, 08:19 AM	#4
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,645	Ask your lfs if they are selling you rodi water or just ro ....big difference. my lfs just used ro water and the nitrates out where 20ppm. Sounds like if you have live rock it may not be done cycling. also how much are you feeding ....anemone poop like horses.

04/02/2006, 12:11 PM	#8
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,645	have you tried blowing the rocks off behind and under them as well?

04/02/2006, 12:33 PM	#9
Paulairduck I LOVE FREE FRAGS!!! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chino Hills Posts: 2,909	wal mart distilled is good it measures O on the tds meter, I have been using it while I save up for the new rodi sytem and have seen no ill effects!!!!

04/02/2006, 01:49 PM	#10
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	ok. i bought a turkey baster (50 cents!) and ten gal of r/o water. question... i tested it and it reads total alkalinity/buffering compacity at zero. is this right? nirates and nitrites 0 ammonnia - 0 this is before salt. warming the water up, its cold! edit... the tukey baster i bought to squirt off my star mat that hasent opened in weeks due to a heater failure.. i should clean off the rest of the rocks too? they are dirty.. this wont spike the nitrates anymore will it? will wait till i know for sure __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 01:58 PM	#11
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,645	no the dirt on rocks is detritus which is contributing to the nitrates. Blow off the rocks under and behind as best you can. I use a power head and hold it. let it settle about 15 mins then vacuum substrate and do water change. then change any filter media about an hour after doing water change.

04/02/2006, 02:10 PM	#12
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	um... im really learly on vacumming my substrate. ok.. i had this tank about 5 months now. had me an anemone, a maroon clown and 3 shrimp. i never vacuummed the substrate I was at the store one day two weeks ago and picked one up. i used it next water change and it was descusting how much stuff i pulled up. The next day a shrimp died. i had tested early that week and everything was in normal ranges. after pump incident it was spiked to nearly 40. ive been fighting nitrates ever since. first i did 2 water changes, then i bought a skimmer.. i had it under control, back down to around 10. now today i tested it with a new kit, and it was back up to 40! (other test shows 30's) I just am kinda scared of the gravel pump.... i could try to use it lightly. water change in 2 days from now unless things get crazy with nitrates Ill do this the day i do a water change. waters to cold and salts to 'new' today __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 02:32 PM	#13
dfcjr Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Clinton Twp.,MI. Posts: 307	You can vacuum your substrate depending on what you have just dont vacuum more than say 25% that way you dont get rid of the nitrifying bacteria.im using cc right now(i know!!!) and i vacuum mine every other week with my water change and it keeps my nitrates at zero.The bacteria bounce right back. __________________ R.I.P. David James Garrett, my little brother and the best friend I'll ever have, life will never be the same without you. Current Tank Info: 65gallon mixed reef, 20gallon refugium, 250w SE MH w/ 65w actinic PC

04/02/2006, 02:38 PM	#14
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	ill give it one more shot. since my fish is in a diff. tank the only thing id freak out on is my anemone... ill let you guys know how it go's wish i had me a digital nitrate test, dont know what to trust anyways __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 03:54 PM	#15
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,645	If you do not have a dsb, and have 1lb of live rock per gallon and just have large aragonite type of a substrate then vacuum away. this maybe your problem. Large substrate is a detrius trap especially if you do not vacuum it often.

04/02/2006, 03:57 PM	#16
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	i dont know what dsb stands for... my substrate is two parts sand one part crushed coral... (grrrr... my lfs never told me 'live sand' even existed when i started this adventure) so the top is pretty large pieces my rocks.. i cant remember now, but im a few pounds light of having 45 pounds, not to far off. thwy are dirty, i squirted them a few times trying to keep my hands out of the water so my skimmer keeps going. thats a few weeks ago..... im planning on adding about 15 pounds of base LR in a few days.. also ripping off the back section of the tank, putting the skimmer on the back and adding 2 maxi jets.. will new LR cause me any reprossions if i dont go crazy? __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 04:22 PM	#17
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,645	Looks like your sand bed is deep but not deep or fine enough. DSB = deep sand bed ...which needs to be at least 5 inches deep to be effective. but also needs to be fine sand not large . there can be some large mixed in but should be less than 30 percent. Also the large aragonite helps to trap and hold the detrius and then is just decaying there and contributing your nitrate problem.

04/02/2006, 04:34 PM	#18
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	I don't have a deep sand bed-its about 3 inches deep. so, every time I do a water change, I stir the sand bed. you know, in your case I'm going to advise this for short-term to help remove the detrious. a hang on back filter. get powerheads BLOWING AWAY at the rock, to kick up all the junk with a really powerful HOB filter going. do this daily. the rocks should come clean. do it for a week, then remove the filter (or keep it, without the filter media) every time you do this, its going to look nasty. clean out the filtration media about one hour after each time doing this. your NOT using it as a filter, just use it kinda like a 'sock' to pull things outta the tank with quick. once/week water changes, and stir up your sandbed every time. you can start slowly taking out the bigger sand chunks if you want. as long as you stir it up good each time you do a water change, you should be ok. oh, but only stir it up like someone ^ said;25% a time or thereabouts. __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

04/02/2006, 04:41 PM	#19
frank2926 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: phila Posts: 1,645	his sand bed is really not live ...if it where he would not have the nitrate problem he is having. Therefore vacuuming all of it will hurt nothing. Not stir it VACUUM it.

04/02/2006, 05:13 PM	#20
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	found a dead snail, not sure if its the cause or the effect. can 1 snail spike nitrates real bad? __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 05:18 PM	#21
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	i was thinking about buying a filter anyways.. I kinda have one that vcame with the tank. i change the filter floss once a week... see pic im ripping this off in a few days... ill get a good hang on filter and just change the filter after im done cleaning the rocks __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 05:18 PM	#22
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The crushed coral can accumulate detritus, which then rots and might help cause a nitrate problem. I ditched mine for this reason. One snail isn't going to cause that kind of problem unless it was huge. You can try water changes, but the nitrate level usually jumps back up very quickly. I wouldn't change more than 25% in one shot, to reduce any possible shock. This article has a lot of ideas: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...t2003/chem.htm __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

04/02/2006, 05:27 PM	#23
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	im at a loss. if it werent for the anemone id just go nuts. i can lose all the hermits and snails and not be bothered. so... Im going to turn on a hang on filter spray my rocks wait for it to settle vacuumme my substrate change my water cross my fingers i still hafta wait till the waters ready anybody know about the alkalinity question? should it read 0 in r/o water? __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 05:32 PM	#24
TOURKID Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vegas baby, Vegas Posts: 4,371	what about kents nitrate absorber rock looking things? __________________ RISK more than others think is safe CARE more than others think is wise DREAM more than others think is practical EXPECT more than others think is possible Current Tank Info: nada

04/02/2006, 05:43 PM	#25
Me No Nemo Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 2,337	Do you have any sponges in your system? If so, they could be part of the problem. Get a PURA filter pad and use it in your filter to catch the organics after you blow off the rocks. They're incredible for organics removal. Do make sure that the water has a way to get around the pad and not overflow as they pick up so much that they often get blocked. I'd also clean them every day for the first couple of days at least. They last about a month, but in the beginning they get very nasty, very fast. Also, I would suggest getting rid of that crushed coral as Jonathan suggested. I'd add some live sand, a bit at a time, if your lfs sells it (not the bag stuff, actual live sand). Make sure you have adequate flow and do a large water change as opposed to several smaller one. HTH __________________ “Life is life's greatest gift. Guard the life of another creature as you would your own because it is your own. On life's scale of values, the smallest is no less precious to the creature who owns it than the largest...” ( Dr. Lloyd Biggle Jr.) "In among the branches of the corals, like birds among trees, floated many beautiful fish, radiant with metallic greens or crimsons...." J. Beete Jukes 1842-46 Current Tank Info: 215 Oceanic, Dart Pump, Vortech MP 40's, ATI Powermodule 10x80 watts, 46 gallon freshwater planted tank, 3,500+ gallon backyard pond, 12 gallon mantis tank