How many recommend Nitrates over 20 for SPS

[Mariner]

There was some disagreement in another thread concerning whether or not SPS would benefit from keeping nitrate levels over 20. So, what do you say?
Mariner

[SunnyX]

Nothing except for algae will benefit from No3 over 20ppm.

Yes SPS need some Po4, but ideally you should keep No3 and Po4 as close to 0 as possible.

[jay24k]

^ Agree completely. I say compare it to the ocean. All the nitrate you need will be provided by the fish poop/feeding. If this was not the case, I would not be having the success I am having much less all the TOTM who are running the same.

[JB NY]

NO3 as low as possible. Undetectable should be the goal.

[RichConley]

To be honest, I wasnt reccomending nitrates that were 20+, I was saying that getting them down to 0 isnt that important, the phosphate is more of a consideration.

I've seen plenty of colorful SPS tanks with detectable nitrates. I've never seen a good looking SPS tank with high phosphates.

[thebicyclecafe]

Okay, first of all SPS refers to many corals. Many corals under this category can in fact do quite well at nitrate levels of around 10ppm. However, if we are talking Acropora then this is a whole different story.

I don't know if you mean "recommending it" like it was good for the coral? By no means can a waste product like nitrate be good for any coral. It is more benign than phosphate to SPS or Acropora coral growth, but you'll still have nasty algal blooms and stuff. And honestly, the phosphates go along with the nitrates in my experience, they are both from animal waste, if you have nitrates, you may very well likely have phosphates as well. Montipora tend to do quite well under many conditions, but still try to keep everything nice and low.

Recommendation? Keep that nitrate pegged to zero or as close to as possible for anything you are keeping (unless you're keeping a colt coral or something that in fact does better with NO3). Good husbandry, that's what it is.

[Amphiprion]

I don't recommend it, but it is certainly tolerable by these corals.

[DaddyJax]

Import, export. Feed fish=fish poop=nitrate+skimmer and water changes=healthy happy corals!

[jackson6745]

Originally posted by Mariner
There was some disagreement in another thread concerning whether or not SPS would benefit from keeping nitrate levels over 20. So, what do you say?
Mariner

If there is a lot of GFO used in this system the coral colors will be insane. Tanks that I have seen with high nitrates and low phosphates have the best color that I have seen yet (even compared against zeo tanks) Don't ask me why it works The colors are so rich and deep in systems like this.

Here's a good thread about it
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/...ead.php?t=9324

[dots]

I have to agree with the color deeping. I pulled a newbie and forgot all about the live rock I added recently. I thought, what the ^$^&, I should test the old nitrates just to see how my montly water change regement is shaping up. I freaked when the nitrates were around 45ppm, from the live rock die off cycling through. Idiot!! Though I was noticing how dark and bold my digitatas were getting. Large water changes, and were back to normal, suppose they will lighten up now.

[Mariner]

Jackson6745,
Why not vote "Yes" on my poll question then? I'm really looking for people like yourself who believe elevated nitrates benefit SPS. I was challenged to see if there were not SPS keepers who felt this way, and that's who I'm looking for. So, why wouldn't you vote yes?
thanks,
Mariner

[jackson6745]

Originally posted by Mariner
Jackson6745,
Why not vote "Yes" on my poll question then? I'm really looking for people like yourself who believe elevated nitrates benefit SPS. I was challenged to see if there were not SPS keepers who felt this way, and that's who I'm looking for. So, why wouldn't you vote yes?
thanks,
Mariner

I didn't vote yes because I have also seen quite a bit of RTN/STN when Nitrates climb too high (over 50ppm). I didn't say elevated nitrates benefit SPS, but they can be used to manipulate colors just as the lenght of photoperiod. I should actually vote no on your poll

[G-money]

I don't know if I can agree with the whole "well, the ocean doesn't have it" argument. There are many instances where man takes something from nature, modifies its environment/conditions and ends up with results that are hardly inferior to what nature produces.

Nitrate has no immediate detrimental effects on corals the way phosphate does. I've long thought that the insistance on zero nitrate is way too overstated.

[NoSchwag]

How can I raise my nitrates without raising my phosphates??

I started feeding 2 cubes a day about 1 month ago and notice no changes in my water chemistry.

[Mariner]

Originally posted by jackson6745
I didn't vote yes because I have also seen quite a bit of RTN/STN when Nitrates climb too high (over 50ppm). I didn't say elevated nitrates benefit SPS, but they can be used to manipulate colors just as the lenght of photoperiod. I should actually vote no on your poll

Ok, thanks for the explanation. Still, if you can manipulate color with nitrate to your liking, that might be considered some benefit...maybe not...
Mariner

[G-money]

Originally posted by NoSchwag
How can I raise my nitrates without raising my phosphates??

It's not easy to do this conventionally. I think the most apparent way would be to keep feeding heavy, skim a little lighter and use a GFO in your system. Minimizing anaerobic regions would also lower the rate of nitrification, which would help.

The most immediate way would be to add the nitrate chemically - though I couldn't say what form or amount of NO3 would be safe to add. Maybe you could ask Randy. KNO3 would be my guess. I use it as one of the fetilizers in my FW tank.

[Amphiprion]

G-money--I think KNO3 would definitely be the safest bet if you wanted to add nitrate. But have you also noticed the increase in color in plants when nitrate levels are elevated, phosphate lowered, and overall inorganic carbon content is increased? While these dynamics don't work quite the same in the ocean, it would be interesting to note any changes, etc.

[JB NY]

Personally I don't advocated high nitrates when keeping SPS. If you are talking about deep coloration you have two choices IMO to have very good coloration with very low nutrients and not have high nitrates.

Keep more fish.

Use less powerful lighting.

I think many people started to go overboard with lighting, less fish and very clean water. The result is you see more people posting about not getting that deep color that they like so much.

[Mike O'Brien]

Originally posted by G-money

Nitrate has no immediate detrimental effects on corals the way phosphate does. I've long thought that the insistance on zero nitrate is way too overstated.

From Randy's nitrate article.

" In most cases where nitrate levels have been examined in relation to the growth of calcerous corals, the effects have been reasonably small, but significant. Elevated nitrate has been shown to reduce the growth of Porites compressa (at less than 0.3-0.6 ppm nitrate),16,17 but the effect is eliminated if the alkalinity is elevated as well (to 4.5 meq/L). One explanation is that the elevated nitrate drives the growth of the zooxanthellae to such an extent that it actually competes with the host for inorganic carbon (used in photosynthesis and skeletal deposition). When the alkalinity is elevated, this competition no longer deprives the host of needed carbon.17 "

[G-money]

Yeah, I saw that paper.

Give me time to drag some others up...

[RichConley]

Mariner, a more accurate representation of what you're trying to get at, would be a poll along the lines of

"How many sps keepers believe they should have:
1. No Nitrate
2. Some Nitrate"

Although you're still going to get people parroting what they've heard from people.

As to mimicing the ocean, I agree with whoever said it best. Wild animals develope to survive in their environment. That doesnt mean it is the optimum environment for them.

Many wild animals only eat once every couple weeks. House pets eat every day. I dont think thats a negative.

[Amphiprion]

Many of these animals are adapted to extremes in some form or another to begin with. Sometimes, when providing less of an extreme environment, the animals could potentially do better (obviously not all the time). But when animals evolve in certain ways, there is only so much plasticity between certain environmental differences. Animals such as corals and other cnidarians are plastic, but not nearly as, say, a cockroach.

[Mariner]

Originally posted by RichConley
Mariner, a more accurate representation of what you're trying to get at, would be a poll along the lines of

"How many sps keepers believe they should have:
1. No Nitrate
2. Some Nitrate"

You're probably right. Of course the reason I worded as I did was because of your challenge:

Check the SPS forum, there actually ARE a bunch of people running SPS tanks with 20+ nitrates with no problems.

Mariner

[jackson6745]

Originally posted by JB NY
Personally I don't advocated high nitrates when keeping SPS. If you are talking about deep coloration you have two choices IMO to have very good coloration with very low nutrients and not have high nitrates.

Keep more fish.

Use less powerful lighting.

I think many people started to go overboard with lighting, less fish and very clean water. The result is you see more people posting about not getting that deep color that they like so much.

I agree. This is why I am downgrading by beckett skimmer to a smaller recirculating skimmer. We'll see if it makes a difference. I tried adding more fish, but at 23 fish in a 120G, fighting is becoming a problem.