LFS says glue the Corals on???

bigchimp · 04/23/2006, 07:14 AM

With my tank still cycling and visions of what I'd like to do eventually floating around my head I've been inquiring about the species i'd like to stock my tank with. After visiting the LFS and asking about the corals, anenomes and such I wondered how they affix thewmselves to the live rock. No one ever seems to talk about this. But in reply the guy showed me a tube of mixable epoxy compound that is spread on the bottom and then you stick it to the rock underwater??? This didnt make much sense to me since in the wild no one is assigned to gluing corals to natural live rock. I assumed that the epoxy would only coat and cover whatever is on the bottom of the stump of the coral or whatever that allows it to become naturally affixed to rock and such. Im confused on this subject. COuld soemone explain the use of epoxy on live corals and also give direction as to how to affix them to live rock or give direction on placement techniques within the tank. I'd like to know how to effectivly/properly arrange this stuff
Thanks.

Daytymer · 04/23/2006, 07:28 AM

If you are buying pieces that are already attached, you can use the epoxy to attach that piece to your rockwork. The location is going to depend on the needs of the individual coral, the layout of your tank, and your personal preference. Seems like you're doing a good job at researching so I would suggest researching the types of corals you want and what light requirements they have as well as water flow requirements. You don't want to put lets say a Xenia directly in front of a powerhead as they prefer low to medium water flow. Too, keep in mind the growth patterns of the coral. You can think of this like gardening. Again, using Xenia as an example they will spread out and start attaching themselves to other rockwork in the area. Is this what you are going to want? If not, you need to keep them away from any other rockwork. Try and keep the corals spaced apart so they have room to grow. You'll hear about coral wars. That is when the corals have grown to the size that they are competiting for space. When you get to this point it's time you learn how to frag!

If you are buying "frags" or you get a loose frag from someone the type of mounting is going to depend on the coral type as well. Those with a hard stony skeleton will respond well to Super glue. Softies do well with stitching (needle/plastic thread) through the base of the coral and then wrap the thread around a rock. It gives them the time they need to attach themselves.

If you come across frags then do a search on RC for how to mount frags. Lots of info out there on it.

Good luck and WELCOME!!

Avi · 04/23/2006, 07:32 AM

We do this all the time. It's good for the coral in a lot of ways since once it's set there's no moving around which, for a lot of corals, isn't good. So, basically, you get a good quality epoxy that's sold for aquarium use, though I always use Aquamend that's sold in Home Depot, and put a good glob of it on the rock base of the coral you want to mount. Make sure there's a good connection (you can put a bit of crazy glue gel between the epoxy and the rock it's going on to assure a better bond.)

This can be done outside the water...it won't hurt the coral to be out of the water for the brief amount of time it takes to do that.

Then, mount the other side of the glob of epoxy to the rockwork where you want it. (You can put some crazy glue gel there on the other side of the epoxy where it's going to meet the rockwork and be mounted.) In some cases, depending on the place and angle that your mount will have, it's a good idea to hold this new mount in place until the epoxy starts to harden...it doesn't take long under the water...only a matter of minutes.

I should add that when you place the coral/rock onto the rockwork to mount it, don't push so hard that you'd disrupt the rockwork. Try to get the epoxy to kind of wrap onto the rockwork so its not an even mount becuase that looks unnatural. Don't worry at all about the stark white color of the epoxy because it will soon become covered with coraline algae and impossible to see it's even there. In fact, if you click on my Gallery (up abov,) you can see some of the mounted coral in my reef...you can tell if it's got that whitish base...That's before the coraline covers it all up, of course.

Be aware that your skimmer may begin to put out more "skimmate" than usual...that's normal and will stop shortly.

All in all this is a useful way of decorating your reef and placing coral that may otherwise not fit well on the rockwork. Bear in mind that the coral will spread and grow, so don't put it too close to other coral.

The more you do all this, the better you get at it, so don't be intimidated by the process.

Glove · 04/23/2006, 07:32 AM

It is true that corals are 'glued' to rock. Personally I prefer to use SuperGlue Gel. The Gel stuff is great because it is not so 'fluid' that it runs everywhere- the gel will allow enough time before setting up and stay where you put it- not oosing over the rest of the coral.
There is a great deal of debate over how to mount certain corals (like the SPS types). One example of this is with acro types of branchinig corals- some choose to mount the frag length-wise - this will allow more surface area to become 'encrusted' where-as if you mount it on the end that was broke there will be less growth at the base (typically). Basically standing an acro branch on its end vs laying it down.
The corals will start to grow/encrust/affix to the rock it was glued to- soon the polyps will be covering not only the glue but the rock its-self. With plating types of corals- like Montiporas you can get different patterns of growth by letting the coral lay flat or by making it stand on end.
There is even a method of hanging the corals so none of the surface is attatched.

Most softy types dont glue well because they slime up and just let go.
For softies (leathers, shrooms, ect) its better to use some type of net, rubberband, fishing line, screen, something that will hold the coral to the rock-but let water flow through or around the coral untill it gets a good hold. Some will take a good hold on thier own and some will keep moving or spreading untill they find a place they like.

Daytymer · 04/23/2006, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigchimp
I assumed that the epoxy would only coat and cover whatever is on the bottom of the stump of the coral or whatever that allows it to become naturally affixed to rock and such. Im confused on this subject.

Again, depends on the type of coral

Examples:

Frogspawn - The part that you will be attaching to your rockwork is the stony dieoff (aka skeleton) At this point it is dead and can only be attached with some sort of glue/epoxy. The heads are still alive and will continue to grow and produce the dieoff.

Xenia - is alive all the way through. It will attach itself but it usually takes a little bit of time. So to get it into your tank and looking nice, we need to give it some help by attaching it ourselves through the use of glue, stitching or some other method.

Hope this helps. Keep asking questions!

Glove · 04/23/2006, 07:39 AM

OH and.... anenomes will move around all by themselves. I would not try to glue on in place. This is one of the reasons people have trouble with anemones- because they move. It might want to be on a rock next to something it will sting or maybe it will want to get too close to the powerhead.
Its just not up to you to decide where an anemone should be located in your tank sometimes.

bigchimp · 04/23/2006, 07:51 AM

That slipped my mind the growth process of corals. Like those branched looking "dead" rock hard corals from the big box in the LFS store that are used to edecorate thier tank are no longger in action. It didnt occur to me that the bottom dies off as the upper portion continues to grow. I guess my concerns and questions relating to this were mostly based around something super soft at the bottom. The only thing i ever owned was a little anemone when ihad a 30 gallon set up like 6 years ago ( took it down when i went to college) and i just put it near a rock and it affixed itself eventually.

Do any of you have concerns regarding the chemicals..dipping a piece of coral thats globbed up with super glue seems a little wild to me. God knows what chemicals are in the stuff...I mean this doesnt polute the water or harm the fish? It seems reminicent of the Exxon valdez incendent or whatever. It doesnt effect water chemistry?

Another question...do any of these corals sting humans?

Your responses were very helpful...thanks for taking the time out of your day to answer.

keithntracy · 04/23/2006, 07:51 AM

this was my first glue job.....i went a little overboard!!

Glove · 04/23/2006, 07:56 AM

The glued part is usually / typically the end or edge the coral was broken. Glue and epoxy can smother parts of of the skeleton, but, if its a healthy frag this will become covered in time.

I get the frag I want to mount and dab the edge I want to glue with a paper towel- then dab he area of the rock I want to glue the coral to- just so I have a little dry area to work with. This will also help remove slime from a fresh broken frag. I use a little drop on each- the coral and the rock, stick em together and give a light blow on the glue. If you have an eyedropper or something, you can drop a couple of drops of water on the glue to help it set up before ya place it into your display.
and yea- it does sorta depend on the type of coral. Again the hard corals can be glued- the soft ones will need some other form of help.
Once you decide the types of corals, do some research into the ways others have used for those same corals. You will find there is usually more than one way to get good results.

bigchimp · 04/23/2006, 08:20 AM

and this is done outside the tank? So remove the LR and get it glued and set then replace it. You cant stick glue on the coral and dive your hand into the tank and stick it soemwhere right>?

Another related question...what do you guys run for light cycles? How many hrs per day?

04/23/2006, 07:14 AM	#1
bigchimp Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	LFS says glue the Corals on??? With my tank still cycling and visions of what I'd like to do eventually floating around my head I've been inquiring about the species i'd like to stock my tank with. After visiting the LFS and asking about the corals, anenomes and such I wondered how they affix thewmselves to the live rock. No one ever seems to talk about this. But in reply the guy showed me a tube of mixable epoxy compound that is spread on the bottom and then you stick it to the rock underwater??? This didnt make much sense to me since in the wild no one is assigned to gluing corals to natural live rock. I assumed that the epoxy would only coat and cover whatever is on the bottom of the stump of the coral or whatever that allows it to become naturally affixed to rock and such. Im confused on this subject. COuld soemone explain the use of epoxy on live corals and also give direction as to how to affix them to live rock or give direction on placement techniques within the tank. I'd like to know how to effectivly/properly arrange this stuff Thanks.

04/23/2006, 07:32 AM	#3
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	We do this all the time. It's good for the coral in a lot of ways since once it's set there's no moving around which, for a lot of corals, isn't good. So, basically, you get a good quality epoxy that's sold for aquarium use, though I always use Aquamend that's sold in Home Depot, and put a good glob of it on the rock base of the coral you want to mount. Make sure there's a good connection (you can put a bit of crazy glue gel between the epoxy and the rock it's going on to assure a better bond.) This can be done outside the water...it won't hurt the coral to be out of the water for the brief amount of time it takes to do that. Then, mount the other side of the glob of epoxy to the rockwork where you want it. (You can put some crazy glue gel there on the other side of the epoxy where it's going to meet the rockwork and be mounted.) In some cases, depending on the place and angle that your mount will have, it's a good idea to hold this new mount in place until the epoxy starts to harden...it doesn't take long under the water...only a matter of minutes. I should add that when you place the coral/rock onto the rockwork to mount it, don't push so hard that you'd disrupt the rockwork. Try to get the epoxy to kind of wrap onto the rockwork so its not an even mount becuase that looks unnatural. Don't worry at all about the stark white color of the epoxy because it will soon become covered with coraline algae and impossible to see it's even there. In fact, if you click on my Gallery (up abov,) you can see some of the mounted coral in my reef...you can tell if it's got that whitish base...That's before the coraline covers it all up, of course. Be aware that your skimmer may begin to put out more "skimmate" than usual...that's normal and will stop shortly. All in all this is a useful way of decorating your reef and placing coral that may otherwise not fit well on the rockwork. Bear in mind that the coral will spread and grow, so don't put it too close to other coral. The more you do all this, the better you get at it, so don't be intimidated by the process. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR Last edited by Avi; 04/23/2006 at 07:45 AM.

04/23/2006, 07:28 AM	#2
Daytymer Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Massillon, OH Posts: 236	If you are buying pieces that are already attached, you can use the epoxy to attach that piece to your rockwork. The location is going to depend on the needs of the individual coral, the layout of your tank, and your personal preference. Seems like you're doing a good job at researching so I would suggest researching the types of corals you want and what light requirements they have as well as water flow requirements. You don't want to put lets say a Xenia directly in front of a powerhead as they prefer low to medium water flow. Too, keep in mind the growth patterns of the coral. You can think of this like gardening. Again, using Xenia as an example they will spread out and start attaching themselves to other rockwork in the area. Is this what you are going to want? If not, you need to keep them away from any other rockwork. Try and keep the corals spaced apart so they have room to grow. You'll hear about coral wars. That is when the corals have grown to the size that they are competiting for space. When you get to this point it's time you learn how to frag! If you are buying "frags" or you get a loose frag from someone the type of mounting is going to depend on the coral type as well. Those with a hard stony skeleton will respond well to Super glue. Softies do well with stitching (needle/plastic thread) through the base of the coral and then wrap the thread around a rock. It gives them the time they need to attach themselves. If you come across frags then do a search on RC for how to mount frags. Lots of info out there on it. Good luck and WELCOME!!

04/23/2006, 07:32 AM	#4
Glove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 562	It is true that corals are 'glued' to rock. Personally I prefer to use SuperGlue Gel. The Gel stuff is great because it is not so 'fluid' that it runs everywhere- the gel will allow enough time before setting up and stay where you put it- not oosing over the rest of the coral. There is a great deal of debate over how to mount certain corals (like the SPS types). One example of this is with acro types of branchinig corals- some choose to mount the frag length-wise - this will allow more surface area to become 'encrusted' where-as if you mount it on the end that was broke there will be less growth at the base (typically). Basically standing an acro branch on its end vs laying it down. The corals will start to grow/encrust/affix to the rock it was glued to- soon the polyps will be covering not only the glue but the rock its-self. With plating types of corals- like Montiporas you can get different patterns of growth by letting the coral lay flat or by making it stand on end. There is even a method of hanging the corals so none of the surface is attatched. Most softy types dont glue well because they slime up and just let go. For softies (leathers, shrooms, ect) its better to use some type of net, rubberband, fishing line, screen, something that will hold the coral to the rock-but let water flow through or around the coral untill it gets a good hold. Some will take a good hold on thier own and some will keep moving or spreading untill they find a place they like.

04/23/2006, 07:39 AM	#6
Glove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 562	OH and.... anenomes will move around all by themselves. I would not try to glue on in place. This is one of the reasons people have trouble with anemones- because they move. It might want to be on a rock next to something it will sting or maybe it will want to get too close to the powerhead. Its just not up to you to decide where an anemone should be located in your tank sometimes.

04/23/2006, 07:51 AM	#7
bigchimp Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	That slipped my mind the growth process of corals. Like those branched looking "dead" rock hard corals from the big box in the LFS store that are used to edecorate thier tank are no longger in action. It didnt occur to me that the bottom dies off as the upper portion continues to grow. I guess my concerns and questions relating to this were mostly based around something super soft at the bottom. The only thing i ever owned was a little anemone when ihad a 30 gallon set up like 6 years ago ( took it down when i went to college) and i just put it near a rock and it affixed itself eventually. Do any of you have concerns regarding the chemicals..dipping a piece of coral thats globbed up with super glue seems a little wild to me. God knows what chemicals are in the stuff...I mean this doesnt polute the water or harm the fish? It seems reminicent of the Exxon valdez incendent or whatever. It doesnt effect water chemistry? Another question...do any of these corals sting humans? Your responses were very helpful...thanks for taking the time out of your day to answer.

04/23/2006, 07:51 AM	#8
keithntracy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: winter park, fl Posts: 1,078	this was my first glue job.....i went a little overboard!!

04/23/2006, 07:56 AM	#9
Glove Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 562	The glued part is usually / typically the end or edge the coral was broken. Glue and epoxy can smother parts of of the skeleton, but, if its a healthy frag this will become covered in time. I get the frag I want to mount and dab the edge I want to glue with a paper towel- then dab he area of the rock I want to glue the coral to- just so I have a little dry area to work with. This will also help remove slime from a fresh broken frag. I use a little drop on each- the coral and the rock, stick em together and give a light blow on the glue. If you have an eyedropper or something, you can drop a couple of drops of water on the glue to help it set up before ya place it into your display. and yea- it does sorta depend on the type of coral. Again the hard corals can be glued- the soft ones will need some other form of help. Once you decide the types of corals, do some research into the ways others have used for those same corals. You will find there is usually more than one way to get good results.

04/23/2006, 08:20 AM	#10
bigchimp Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10	and this is done outside the tank? So remove the LR and get it glued and set then replace it. You cant stick glue on the coral and dive your hand into the tank and stick it soemwhere right>? Another related question...what do you guys run for light cycles? How many hrs per day?