Closed Loop Vs. Tunze Streams

[getoyute]

I am planning on upgrading my current 90gal. to a 200+ gal. system in the near future dominated by SPS. Which flow set-up will be more beneficial to the animals??

[Creetin]

I have had a non wave simulated tank for 3 yrs and its never hurt my sps.
I liked my tunze's they were nice, But i dont like clutter in my tank.
I thought it was an eyesore with all those powerheads in my tank, and i never had the crazy flow i get from an eductor and an iwaki, But the wave action was very nice!!!

[Ti]

tunze FTW

[TCU Reefer]

I just set up my 215 SPS system (build log on my website) and I have a Dart and OM 4 way on my closed loop. The CL will not provide that laminar flow the Tunze can produce so I'm getting a pair of either 6100's or 6200's.

I also want tons of flow so CL + Tunze's probably are not going to fit everyone's setup.

[getoyute]

Thanks for the input guys.

[ReeferMonkey]

I prefer Tunzes to a CL. Yes, the Tunzes can be an eyesore but they consume FAR less power, can be moved around as necessary and flow can be modulated with a multicontroller. With a closed loop, you also have to take into account that every union you have is a potential leak. Big CL pumps = big energy consumption and can be a big increase in heat.

In the 36L x 24W x 18H SPS-dominant system I'm buildling, I'm going to go with 2 6000s (maybe 6100s) and use a Wavy Sea on my return. I just hope that the sand stays in place

[Hockeydad]

Just set up new tank with Oceansmotions Suoer Squirt and an Iwaki 100. Clean and a pleasure to have set up. No more power heads in the tanks falling off and blasting your sps.
Good luck!

[getoyute]

bump

[gcarroll]

Originally posted by ReeferMonkey
I prefer Tunzes to a CL. Yes, the Tunzes can be an eyesore but they consume FAR less power, can be moved around as necessary and flow can be modulated with a multicontroller. With a closed loop, you also have to take into account that every union you have is a potential leak. Big CL pumps = big energy consumption and can be a big increase in heat.

In the 36L x 24W x 18H SPS-dominant system I'm buildling, I'm going to go with 2 6000s (maybe 6100s) and use a Wavy Sea on my return. I just hope that the sand stays in place

I can save you money over that setup!
buy 1 tunze 6060 and mount it to the wavy sea! The new adaptor should be available next month. You could even add another wavy sea for the return pump and still same 100s of dollars. My consultation fee is only $40, I'll PM you my address so you can send me a check.

[ReeferMonkey]

Originally posted by gcarroll
I can save you money over that setup!
buy 1 tunze 6060 and mount it to the wavy sea! The new adaptor should be available next month. You could even add another wavy sea for the return pump and still same 100s of dollars. My consultation fee is only $40, I'll PM you my address so you can send me a check.

I've thought about this. I wouldn't get the added fun of the controllers (feed mode, variable pump speed).

Your check is in the mail, though

[bertcmg]

If you don't like the look of pumps in the tank, you can get a couple of deco rocks ( I have )

I don't think there is a easier or cheaper way to get 3-5000 GPH of flow in a tank without the streams

I rippped out the CL after the on and off micro bubbles

[ahchung]

For 2 Tunze 6000s, with proper setup I am sure there will be no sand storm.

Originally posted by ReeferMonkey
I prefer Tunzes to a CL. Yes, the Tunzes can be an eyesore but they consume FAR less power, can be moved around as necessary and flow can be modulated with a multicontroller. With a closed loop, you also have to take into account that every union you have is a potential leak. Big CL pumps = big energy consumption and can be a big increase in heat.

In the 36L x 24W x 18H SPS-dominant system I'm buildling, I'm going to go with 2 6000s (maybe 6100s) and use a Wavy Sea on my return. I just hope that the sand stays in place

[goby1]

I don't see tunze power heads as being more efficient than a good pump on a closed loop. Consider this: how would you measure the flow from a tunze? As a relevant aside, the entire wattage of a submerged powerhead goes to heat the water, whereas only some of it for an externally mounted pump does. IMO, powerheads clutter and cls require holes partway down the tank. If a problem develops at a bulkhead, you might need to drain the tank to fix it, especially with the trend for bottom drilling. How about lowering the overlow in relation to the top of the tank, and surging for 100% of the flow?

G1

[icliao]

Tunze is better but your coral wont die without it.

[MK Reefer]

Originally posted by goby1
I don't see tunze power heads as being more efficient than a good pump on a closed loop. Consider this: how would you measure the flow from a tunze? As a relevant aside, the entire wattage of a submerged powerhead goes to heat the water, whereas only some of it for an externally mounted pump does. IMO, powerheads clutter and cls require holes partway down the tank. If a problem develops at a bulkhead, you might need to drain the tank to fix it, especially with the trend for bottom drilling. How about lowering the overlow in relation to the top of the tank, and surging for 100% of the flow?

G1

If all the power was transfered to heat, then there would be no flow

Mike

[cfishrun]

Originally posted by goby1
I don't see tunze power heads as being more efficient than a good pump on a closed loop. Consider this: how would you measure the flow from a tunze?

What?!? A TUNZE 6100 can move up to 3175gph at only 45 watts, and the 6200 moves 5,283gph at a mere 62 watts! And if a controller is being used, they should only operate at full power 10-25% of the time (and they're so strong that usually you don't ever need to run them at full power). The heat transfer and electrical consumption is so minimal compared to a large external pump; a TUNZE is hands-down more efficient.

Originally posted by goby1
How about lowering the overlow in relation to the top of the tank, and surging for 100% of the flow?

I'm not following you on this one...

getoyute:
IMO, if you're looking to provide the best "natural" flow for your tank inhabitants, go with TUNZE. With a multicontroller, you have an array of options to choose from that will allow you to customize the flow pattern in your tank. And sure, even after you add up the cost of the large external pump, all the pipes, fittings, unions, BVs, bulkheads, and the OM, a TUNZE system is still a little more $ up front, but in time you'll gain most of that back through: ease of installation, lower electrical costs, less heat transfer, ease of cleaning, versatility, expandability, and IMO healthier livestock. As for the pumps being an eyesore, in a 200+ gallon tank, it shouldn't even be a problem. Are you getting it custom-built? If so, you can always have some extra panes put in to completely hide the pumps, or arrange your aquascaping in such a way to hide them. Here is a picture of my 75g with 2 x 6100s. You'd almost over-look them if you didn't know they were there:

[getoyute]

Once again great thanks to all that replied. I am glad this thread is not turning ugly because any time you see the term Vs., It usually gets ugly. I do prefer the Tunze because of feed timer, night mode, flow adjustment, etc... However, I was striving for a real natural look. I am going to have the tank custom built with a few acrylic shelves built in where I can place some live rock instead of having that great wall of China look. Maybe I can place the Streams close to the shelves where they will be hidden.

[DouzeCordes]

I prefer using Tunze streams. The flow rate is ideal for SPS corals plus you don't have to worry about possible leaks associated with the closed loop system due to all the plumbing required. Also, if you want to upgrade later, I think it would be easier to sell an aquarium without 10 to 20 pre-drilled holes in it. If you go with Tunze, you may want to also consider adding a wavebox.

[getoyute]

DouzeCordes

What exactly does the wavebox do?? Streams and Wavebox?? What are the extra benefits of the wavebox that streams don't provide??

[cfishrun]

Check it out; here's a thread where you can find an example of a wavebox in action:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...hreadid=830116

[diemaker]

i prefer the 4 way if it is set up right it will far out preform arnything alse unles your going to put your t heads down as far as 1" from you sand bed you can easly run a 200g with a dart and have amazing flow remember it's the cycle of floe that matters not just a big storm of water in the tank

[jay24k]

Reason you don't see the tunzes is because they cropped out the tunzes in that pic. They are pretty big but I get more of the, "COOL, you have a camera in your tank!" from my Seios. I'd prefer a CL if possible. It just looks better but whatever works for you is what you should do

[goby1]

A submerged 45W powerhead will heat the water the same as a 45W heater. Physics 101...

What is it that makes a Tunze so efficient? I've never looked at one up close, but why couldn't you use one in a closed loop? Are we sure they move 3175gph? I'm just a bit puzzeled on this efficency....

G1

[jsweir]

Efficiency is the measure of how well the electric motor converts the power that is consumed into useful work. For example, an electric heater converts 100% of the power delivered into heat. In motors, most of the energy is converted into usable energy (flow), only a portion is lost as heat. To compare efficiency, take the flow gained per watt used. Tunzes are very efficient.

A 45W powerhead will not heat the water the same as a 45W heater....

[Wazzel]

Originally posted by goby1
A submerged 45W powerhead will heat the water the same as a 45W heater. Physics 101...

What is it that makes a Tunze so efficient? I've never looked at one up close, but why couldn't you use one in a closed loop? Are we sure they move 3175gph? I'm just a bit puzzeled on this efficency....

G1

What makes them use so little power is the type of pump they are. Prpeller pumps use less power per unit flow than cetrifical pump, things like sequence pumps. They also put out less pressure per unit flow.

It all boils down to the way you calculate the pump Hp

P=(Q*H*SG)/(Eff*3960)

P=horsepower
Q=Flow in GPM
H=head in feet
Eff=efficenty on the pump
3960 is a correction term to make the units work

The pump itself my not be that efficent, but the fact that is has little head makes it use little power. I'm sure the pumps were tested, atleast the prototypes.