Phosphate Question

wfgworks · 04/23/2006, 06:44 PM

I have been having some hair algea issues over the past few months and have been searching for a cure.

My tank has always tested at .02-.03 with Hanna Colorimeter.

Tonight I decided to test my RO/DI water that I'm making and it tested at .06 the first time and .05 the second. Second test was taken around 10 minutes after the first.

Is a reading in the .05-.06 enough keep hair algea growing?

This may or may not be my issue but was curious if this could be feeding the algea growth.

At what level do you start to see algea growth decrease when it comes to phosphate levels? I understand ZERO is ideal, but is their a phosphate range where algea will die off because of low phosphate levels?

toccata · 04/24/2006, 01:42 PM

Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth.

toccata · 04/24/2006, 01:42 PM

Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth.

toccata · 04/24/2006, 01:43 PM

Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth.

toccata · 04/24/2006, 01:43 PM

Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth.

Reefbone · 04/24/2006, 01:51 PM

Congrats... first quadruple post I have everseen

fittdog8848 · 04/24/2006, 03:16 PM

^

fsn77 · 04/24/2006, 05:55 PM

What is the detection limit for your colorimeter? Not to sound skeptical, but the full size nutrient analyzer the university uses here to measure phosphates (among other things) can only reliably measure a phosphate value down to 0.01 mg/L (or ppm) -- anything less is considered "undetectable." So, I'm just curious if your instrument can truly distinguish 0.02 - 0.03 from 0.00, or even 0.05 from 0.02. There are ions that interfere with colorimetric phosphate measurement, also, which could be providing false readings.

Beyond that, a phosphate reading of 0.05 - 0.06 ppm is not high by any means. However, the algae in your tank essentially masks a true value of what is in your tank, since they themselves are taking it up. As the algae dies or is eaten, the phosphate is cycled back into the system. I'm guessing you already understand this if your testing your water with a colorimeter, but you never know how much anyone understands until they say so. If the phosphate levels in your tank are the cause of the problem, I suggest looking at what is being fed to the tank. Food added to the tank will contain phosphates, and some have more than others. Label reading can be shocking when it comes to how much phosphate levels in food vary.

wfgworks · 04/24/2006, 06:10 PM

fsn77

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure the detection limit on the colorimeter.

I'm going to change the DI cartridge out and measure my phosphates over the next few weeks.

Not realizing my issue, my top-off water and the water changes have only added to the problem vs helping it. I do water changes ever 2 weeks and my 55 gallon drum of top-off water is constantly being added to the tank because of evaporation.

I dont feed that often, maybe 3 times a week at the most.

Craig Lambert · 04/24/2006, 06:22 PM

I agree with the above about food and phosphate. If you are using frozen foods be sure to thaw them, and strain them with RO water. There was a thread on this sometime ago and Anthony Calfo said that frozen food is like "rocket fuel" for algae.

this is me · 04/24/2006, 06:54 PM

Then I really should be rinsing my mysis before I feed the tank. I did for about a week or two then stop because it took too much time and didnt think it was worth the trouble. Now I'm definitely doing it.

fittdog8848 · 04/25/2006, 07:21 AM

What about Flake food? Does taht contain the same amount of Phosphates as frozen?

fittdog8848 · 04/25/2006, 01:20 PM

^

mikeo1210 · 05/03/2006, 09:36 AM

I recently got the same colorimeter b/c of similar problems I am having. I changed out my membrane, every filter and changed the DI resin on my RO. My product is testing .06 after installing new everything. I was expecting to see it test lower as well. Some people on the zeo board are claiming to keep their systems ~.02.

dolt · 05/03/2006, 10:57 AM

fsn77 I just looked at the hanna page and the accuracy is only +/- 0.04 mg/L so you have a good point - I'm sure the non-portable one you are using at school is much better - BTW I actually am looking to buy the hanna myself - where did you guys find it?

Alaskan Reefer · 05/03/2006, 12:27 PM

Flake food that contains dried brine can definitely contain a lot of phosphate...

fittdog8848 · 05/03/2006, 01:15 PM

I will have to look at the ingredients and see if that is listed.

mikeo1210 · 05/03/2006, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikeo1210
My product is testing .06 after installing new everything.

I re-tested am now getting .02. I'm pretty sure my membrane and/or filters were exhausted.

dolt- customaquatics.

fittdog- Flake is widely thought of as having more phosphates then frozen. Frozen can be soaked in RO and "sponged" of any excess water.

dolt · 05/03/2006, 04:47 PM

ouch - $225 - I swear that I had seen it more in the 150-170 range - am I crazy or are there cheaper places to buy it?

04/23/2006, 06:44 PM	#1
wfgworks Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chalfont, PA Posts: 1,913	Phosphate Question I have been having some hair algea issues over the past few months and have been searching for a cure. My tank has always tested at .02-.03 with Hanna Colorimeter. Tonight I decided to test my RO/DI water that I'm making and it tested at .06 the first time and .05 the second. Second test was taken around 10 minutes after the first. Is a reading in the .05-.06 enough keep hair algea growing? This may or may not be my issue but was curious if this could be feeding the algea growth. At what level do you start to see algea growth decrease when it comes to phosphate levels? I understand ZERO is ideal, but is their a phosphate range where algea will die off because of low phosphate levels?

04/24/2006, 01:42 PM	#2
toccata Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 234	Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth. __________________ Life is what happens to you While you’re busy making other plans -JL Current Tank Info: 350gal Starphire: fowlr, some corals

04/24/2006, 01:42 PM	#3
toccata Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 234	Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth. __________________ Life is what happens to you While you’re busy making other plans -JL Current Tank Info: 350gal Starphire: fowlr, some corals

04/24/2006, 01:43 PM	#4
toccata Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 234	Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth. __________________ Life is what happens to you While you’re busy making other plans -JL Current Tank Info: 350gal Starphire: fowlr, some corals

04/24/2006, 01:43 PM	#5
toccata Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 234	Nothing happens quickly, but if you make sure you have your nitrates, silicates and phosphate in check you should not see the algae growth. Something may have changed for the recent growth. __________________ Life is what happens to you While you’re busy making other plans -JL Current Tank Info: 350gal Starphire: fowlr, some corals

04/24/2006, 01:51 PM	#6
Reefbone Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 248	Congrats... first quadruple post I have everseen

04/24/2006, 03:16 PM	#7
fittdog8848 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 308	^ __________________ When Chuck Norris falls in water, Chuck Norris doesn't get wet. Water gets Chuck Norris. Current Tank Info: 100g Reef with 50g refugium/sump

04/24/2006, 05:55 PM	#8
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	What is the detection limit for your colorimeter? Not to sound skeptical, but the full size nutrient analyzer the university uses here to measure phosphates (among other things) can only reliably measure a phosphate value down to 0.01 mg/L (or ppm) -- anything less is considered "undetectable." So, I'm just curious if your instrument can truly distinguish 0.02 - 0.03 from 0.00, or even 0.05 from 0.02. There are ions that interfere with colorimetric phosphate measurement, also, which could be providing false readings. Beyond that, a phosphate reading of 0.05 - 0.06 ppm is not high by any means. However, the algae in your tank essentially masks a true value of what is in your tank, since they themselves are taking it up. As the algae dies or is eaten, the phosphate is cycled back into the system. I'm guessing you already understand this if your testing your water with a colorimeter, but you never know how much anyone understands until they say so. If the phosphate levels in your tank are the cause of the problem, I suggest looking at what is being fed to the tank. Food added to the tank will contain phosphates, and some have more than others. Label reading can be shocking when it comes to how much phosphate levels in food vary.

04/24/2006, 06:10 PM	#9
wfgworks Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chalfont, PA Posts: 1,913	fsn77 Thanks for the info. I'm not sure the detection limit on the colorimeter. I'm going to change the DI cartridge out and measure my phosphates over the next few weeks. Not realizing my issue, my top-off water and the water changes have only added to the problem vs helping it. I do water changes ever 2 weeks and my 55 gallon drum of top-off water is constantly being added to the tank because of evaporation. I dont feed that often, maybe 3 times a week at the most. __________________ Bill Obsessive Reefer Disorder

04/24/2006, 06:22 PM	#10
Craig Lambert Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,897	I agree with the above about food and phosphate. If you are using frozen foods be sure to thaw them, and strain them with RO water. There was a thread on this sometime ago and Anthony Calfo said that frozen food is like "rocket fuel" for algae. __________________ "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." Current Tank Info: 75G Tank, 29G Sump, 100lbs LR, AquaC EV-180, Iwaki MD-20RT return Tunze nano streams 4X54 t-5/Icecap Ballast & SLR's 2x110 vho actinic

04/24/2006, 06:54 PM	#11
this is me Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: MA Posts: 4,074	Then I really should be rinsing my mysis before I feed the tank. I did for about a week or two then stop because it took too much time and didnt think it was worth the trouble. Now I'm definitely doing it. __________________ Nick When a man talks dirty to a woman, it's sexual harassment. When a woman talks dirty to a man, it's $4.95 per minute. Current Tank Info: Miracle 360 gallons

04/25/2006, 07:21 AM	#12
fittdog8848 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 308	What about Flake food? Does taht contain the same amount of Phosphates as frozen? __________________ When Chuck Norris falls in water, Chuck Norris doesn't get wet. Water gets Chuck Norris. Current Tank Info: 100g Reef with 50g refugium/sump

04/25/2006, 01:20 PM	#13
fittdog8848 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 308	^ __________________ When Chuck Norris falls in water, Chuck Norris doesn't get wet. Water gets Chuck Norris. Current Tank Info: 100g Reef with 50g refugium/sump

05/03/2006, 09:36 AM	#14
mikeo1210 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca Posts: 1,611	I recently got the same colorimeter b/c of similar problems I am having. I changed out my membrane, every filter and changed the DI resin on my RO. My product is testing .06 after installing new everything. I was expecting to see it test lower as well. Some people on the zeo board are claiming to keep their systems ~.02.

05/03/2006, 10:57 AM	#15
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	fsn77 I just looked at the hanna page and the accuracy is only +/- 0.04 mg/L so you have a good point - I'm sure the non-portable one you are using at school is much better - BTW I actually am looking to buy the hanna myself - where did you guys find it?

05/03/2006, 12:27 PM	#16
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	Flake food that contains dried brine can definitely contain a lot of phosphate... __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

05/03/2006, 01:15 PM	#17
fittdog8848 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bozeman, MT Posts: 308	I will have to look at the ingredients and see if that is listed. __________________ When Chuck Norris falls in water, Chuck Norris doesn't get wet. Water gets Chuck Norris. Current Tank Info: 100g Reef with 50g refugium/sump

05/03/2006, 04:47 PM	#19
dolt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: michigan Posts: 397	ouch - $225 - I swear that I had seen it more in the 150-170 range - am I crazy or are there cheaper places to buy it?