What should I be feeding and how often?

ctopal · 04/24/2006, 12:29 PM

Hi,

I have a 90 gallon with only softies and LPS. I've been target feeding DT's phyto mixed with some frozen cyclopeeze and oyster eggs once a week. I'm starting to think I might not be feeding often enough and was also wondering what others feed and if I should be trying any other products/combos.

Thanks - Christine

DJ88© · 04/24/2006, 03:49 PM

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

SuperNerd · 04/24/2006, 03:53 PM

You're doing fine. Golden pearls is also another. Why don't you think you're feeding enough. LPS can be target fed meaty foods. Softies absorb.

ctopal · 04/25/2006, 05:42 AM

My candy cane is receding and a tube worm dropped its crowns. Someone told me the worm may have done that due to malnourishment.

SuperNerd · 04/25/2006, 05:51 AM

Are we talking about the giant feather duster worms? If so then yes. If they continue doing this they are most likely dying from starvation. In the wild they eat a LOT. Most of the time there is not enough plankton of appropriate sizes and quantities in tanks to keep them healthy without supplemental feedings. Supplemental feeding with live phytoplankton such as DTs helps but I think it needs to be done almost daily and with the skimmer turned off.

Recession of the candy cane may be due to something else if you're feeding the tank. They can be fed meaty foods when their tentacles are extended.

What are your water parameters? Alk, Ca, Mg, Specific Gravity, temp, lighting? All need to be in check.

ctopal · 04/25/2006, 09:48 AM

I think it's a coco worm, the first photo in my gallery. My small coco worm and giant feather duster have been doing great. The part recessing on the candycane is not in direct lighting, do you think it could be my placement?

My temp is 80 - 81, sg is 1.023, MH & actinic lighting (aqualight pro), calcium is 470, ammonia, trates & trites are 0.

Thanks

Alaskan Reefer · 04/25/2006, 11:03 AM

I don't target feed my LPS or softies anything and they've always done well. Tubeworms do require lots of supplemental feeding, daily phytoplankton is the right idea.

What is your alkalinity? That could have an effect on your stonies receding, and at 470 calcium it is likely on the low side.

rustybucket145 · 04/25/2006, 11:56 AM

My candy cane only opens to feed at night so once or twice a week I stay up later until about an hour after the lights go off and target feed it. Unless you are seeing tentacles extending past the crown you are not really feeding it. If you have never seen it open you really need to check it out VERY COOL.

ctopal · 04/25/2006, 02:07 PM

Okay, I'll check after hours on the candycane, I've seen thicker tentacles and inch long come out, but no openings. What do you feed it, does it have openings like an open brain to feed to?

I don't test alk, my test for that stinks, but I'll try again. And calcium is actually too high, it's supposed to be around 425. Was reading up in a reef chemistry book as I was concerned with it being so high, but unless it's 500 or more, no real worries.

SuperNerd · 04/25/2006, 05:22 PM

You need to test for alkalinity. What test brand do you have?

Candy canes are like other lps. They have a mouth in the center.

Coco worms need high calcium levels and frequent feedings of small phytoplankton. Like strong currents. Usually starve to death within six months to a year.

Alaskan Reefer · 04/25/2006, 05:45 PM

You definitely need to test alkalinity, it's just as important as testing for calcium if not more so since it's harder to balance and just as important to coral health. It's okay for calcium to be that high if it's combined with high alkalinity -- but I'm betting that when you test you'll find your alkalinity at dangerously low levels around 4-5 dKH. I'm guessing that because I had the exact same situation in my first reef tank until I bought an alkalinity test and started paying attention to it...

ctopal · 04/26/2006, 04:40 PM

It was lower

1.5 But I'm going to buy a new testkit as I don't like the fastest for this one. My PH rarely fluctuates, I do buffer sometimes to try and keep it at 8.2 as it likes 8.1, maybe every other month. I'm not understanding the importance if my PH is stable, is it only stable because I'm doing weekly water changes? How do I bring it up as I buffer for PH and wouldn't want that over 8.2.

I fed the candycane mysis, very cool!

Alaskan Reefer · 04/27/2006, 03:25 PM

That's probably 1.5 meq/L, not dKH (at least I hope it is) -- to arrive at dKH you multiply meq/L by 2.8, so you're at 4.2 dKH.

I think that most strive for their alkalinity to be around 8-10 dKH, which when balanced corresponds with "normal" calcium levels of 380-460 (or so, I don't know exactly).

I would actually think that weekly water changes would serve to destabilize your pH -- I've found in my tanks that over time it just finds its way to 8.3 and stays there, after starting out all over the place. I assume that's due to buffering properties in sand and LR eventually stabilizing the water.

The importance of alkalinity in the water is that corals build their skeletons from calcium carbonate -- both are needed. Calcium you measure directly, carbonate you measure indirectly via an alkalinity test. Corals need both calcium and carbonate, not just calcium.

Most pH buffering products will raise alkalinity to a degree since they include carbonate. That's probably why it's taken your tank so long to tell you it's low -- the pH buffering you're doing is replenishing some of the carbonate.

I'd recommend using a 2 part additive such as B-Ionic to get started. 2 part additives are ionically balanced, so adding them both at the same time doesn't have a negative effect on either.

Here's a good article to go further into CA/ALK...

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Alaskan Reefer · 04/27/2006, 03:29 PM

Oh, and FWIW, I have very healthy LPS (and SPS for that matter) with...

8.4 pH
400ppm CA
8.0 dKH ALK

I replenish with mine with limewater, which is handy -- replenish CA/ALK and evaporated water all at the same time. I'd start with 2 part though, and progress to limewater once you've got stable, healthy CA and ALK readings. It will take some time since your CA and ALK are currently so far out of balance.

ctopal · 04/29/2006, 05:29 AM

Thank you very much for the article, I really had no idea that alk was important. At least now I am aware of the problem and can begin to address it. Thanks for taking the time to help me understand!

Christine

04/24/2006, 12:29 PM	#1
ctopal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Columbia, Connecticut Posts: 953	What should I be feeding and how often? Hi, I have a 90 gallon with only softies and LPS. I've been target feeding DT's phyto mixed with some frozen cyclopeeze and oyster eggs once a week. I'm starting to think I might not be feeding often enough and was also wondering what others feed and if I should be trying any other products/combos. Thanks - Christine

04/24/2006, 03:49 PM	#2
DJ88© Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: BC. Canada. Posts: 14,351	This thread has been moved to the current forum. __________________ Darren Beauty fades.... Stupid is forever...... Current Tank Info: 34 Gal Solana with some lights.. and pumps that make water move. And fish...

04/24/2006, 03:53 PM	#3
SuperNerd Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: SoCal/Left Side- USA Posts: 4,572	You're doing fine. Golden pearls is also another. Why don't you think you're feeding enough. LPS can be target fed meaty foods. Softies absorb. __________________ I said fraggit! Current Tank Info: M-728 Combat Engineer (based on M60 hull). M-3 Lee Medium (British version with squatter).

04/25/2006, 05:42 AM	#4
ctopal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Columbia, Connecticut Posts: 953	My candy cane is receding and a tube worm dropped its crowns. Someone told me the worm may have done that due to malnourishment. __________________ Christine YES they're pitbulls and they're NOT mean! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon saltwater reef with 30 gallon sump/refugium

04/25/2006, 05:51 AM	#5
SuperNerd Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: SoCal/Left Side- USA Posts: 4,572	Are we talking about the giant feather duster worms? If so then yes. If they continue doing this they are most likely dying from starvation. In the wild they eat a LOT. Most of the time there is not enough plankton of appropriate sizes and quantities in tanks to keep them healthy without supplemental feedings. Supplemental feeding with live phytoplankton such as DTs helps but I think it needs to be done almost daily and with the skimmer turned off. Recession of the candy cane may be due to something else if you're feeding the tank. They can be fed meaty foods when their tentacles are extended. What are your water parameters? Alk, Ca, Mg, Specific Gravity, temp, lighting? All need to be in check. __________________ I said fraggit! Current Tank Info: M-728 Combat Engineer (based on M60 hull). M-3 Lee Medium (British version with squatter).

04/25/2006, 09:48 AM	#6
ctopal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Columbia, Connecticut Posts: 953	I think it's a coco worm, the first photo in my gallery. My small coco worm and giant feather duster have been doing great. The part recessing on the candycane is not in direct lighting, do you think it could be my placement? My temp is 80 - 81, sg is 1.023, MH & actinic lighting (aqualight pro), calcium is 470, ammonia, trates & trites are 0. Thanks __________________ Christine YES they're pitbulls and they're NOT mean! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon saltwater reef with 30 gallon sump/refugium

04/25/2006, 11:03 AM	#7
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	I don't target feed my LPS or softies anything and they've always done well. Tubeworms do require lots of supplemental feeding, daily phytoplankton is the right idea. What is your alkalinity? That could have an effect on your stonies receding, and at 470 calcium it is likely on the low side. __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

04/25/2006, 11:56 AM	#8
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	My candy cane only opens to feed at night so once or twice a week I stay up later until about an hour after the lights go off and target feed it. Unless you are seeing tentacles extending past the crown you are not really feeding it. If you have never seen it open you really need to check it out VERY COOL. __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

04/25/2006, 02:07 PM	#9
ctopal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Columbia, Connecticut Posts: 953	Okay, I'll check after hours on the candycane, I've seen thicker tentacles and inch long come out, but no openings. What do you feed it, does it have openings like an open brain to feed to? I don't test alk, my test for that stinks, but I'll try again. And calcium is actually too high, it's supposed to be around 425. Was reading up in a reef chemistry book as I was concerned with it being so high, but unless it's 500 or more, no real worries. __________________ Christine YES they're pitbulls and they're NOT mean! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon saltwater reef with 30 gallon sump/refugium

04/25/2006, 05:22 PM	#10
SuperNerd Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: SoCal/Left Side- USA Posts: 4,572	You need to test for alkalinity. What test brand do you have? Candy canes are like other lps. They have a mouth in the center. Coco worms need high calcium levels and frequent feedings of small phytoplankton. Like strong currents. Usually starve to death within six months to a year. __________________ I said fraggit! Current Tank Info: M-728 Combat Engineer (based on M60 hull). M-3 Lee Medium (British version with squatter). Last edited by SuperNerd; 04/25/2006 at 05:34 PM.

04/25/2006, 05:45 PM	#11
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	You definitely need to test alkalinity, it's just as important as testing for calcium if not more so since it's harder to balance and just as important to coral health. It's okay for calcium to be that high if it's combined with high alkalinity -- but I'm betting that when you test you'll find your alkalinity at dangerously low levels around 4-5 dKH. I'm guessing that because I had the exact same situation in my first reef tank until I bought an alkalinity test and started paying attention to it... __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

04/26/2006, 04:40 PM	#12
ctopal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Columbia, Connecticut Posts: 953	It was lower 1.5 But I'm going to buy a new testkit as I don't like the fastest for this one. My PH rarely fluctuates, I do buffer sometimes to try and keep it at 8.2 as it likes 8.1, maybe every other month. I'm not understanding the importance if my PH is stable, is it only stable because I'm doing weekly water changes? How do I bring it up as I buffer for PH and wouldn't want that over 8.2. I fed the candycane mysis, very cool! __________________ Christine YES they're pitbulls and they're NOT mean! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon saltwater reef with 30 gallon sump/refugium

04/27/2006, 03:25 PM	#13
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	That's probably 1.5 meq/L, not dKH (at least I hope it is) -- to arrive at dKH you multiply meq/L by 2.8, so you're at 4.2 dKH. I think that most strive for their alkalinity to be around 8-10 dKH, which when balanced corresponds with "normal" calcium levels of 380-460 (or so, I don't know exactly). I would actually think that weekly water changes would serve to destabilize your pH -- I've found in my tanks that over time it just finds its way to 8.3 and stays there, after starting out all over the place. I assume that's due to buffering properties in sand and LR eventually stabilizing the water. The importance of alkalinity in the water is that corals build their skeletons from calcium carbonate -- both are needed. Calcium you measure directly, carbonate you measure indirectly via an alkalinity test. Corals need both calcium and carbonate, not just calcium. Most pH buffering products will raise alkalinity to a degree since they include carbonate. That's probably why it's taken your tank so long to tell you it's low -- the pH buffering you're doing is replenishing some of the carbonate. I'd recommend using a 2 part additive such as B-Ionic to get started. 2 part additives are ionically balanced, so adding them both at the same time doesn't have a negative effect on either. Here's a good article to go further into CA/ALK... http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

04/27/2006, 03:29 PM	#14
Alaskan Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 2,360	Oh, and FWIW, I have very healthy LPS (and SPS for that matter) with... 8.4 pH 400ppm CA 8.0 dKH ALK I replenish with mine with limewater, which is handy -- replenish CA/ALK and evaporated water all at the same time. I'd start with 2 part though, and progress to limewater once you've got stable, healthy CA and ALK readings. It will take some time since your CA and ALK are currently so far out of balance. __________________ Unattended children will be given double shot espresso and a free puppy. Current Tank Info: 125g FOWLR -- Conversion Back To SPS In Progress

04/29/2006, 05:29 AM	#15
ctopal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Columbia, Connecticut Posts: 953	Thank you very much for the article, I really had no idea that alk was important. At least now I am aware of the problem and can begin to address it. Thanks for taking the time to help me understand! Christine __________________ Christine YES they're pitbulls and they're NOT mean! Current Tank Info: 90 gallon saltwater reef with 30 gallon sump/refugium