8.4 pH but 300 Ca

clownchic · 05/07/2006, 10:02 PM

My 90 gallon has been up and running about 8 weeks now. No corals just live rock, sand and snails. Today I took some Salifert measurements and my pH is on the high side (8.4) but my Ca is at 300. Is this OK at this point? How can I lower the pH to 8.2 and yet raise the Ca to the 375-400 range? FYI - I am doing weekly 10% water changes, usnig a Deltec MCE600 skimmer if that makes a difference. No ammonia, 0 nitrates and nitrites.

L and L · 05/08/2006, 06:18 AM

Everything is fine. No need to adjust.

Did you take the pH reading at the beginning or end of your photocycle?

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 06:38 AM

Toward the end

Dan Thrash · 05/08/2006, 08:13 AM

what type of salt are you using? the ReefCrystals i use give me a higher pH at 8.4, alk is on the higher range, but i think calcium is slightly low.

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 09:23 AM

I'm currently using IO, but recently bought Reef Crystals to use next. I want Ca higher but as I understand if I raise Ca my pH will go up?

kevensquint · 05/08/2006, 09:42 AM

NO, your PH should'nt be affected by using CaCl2 (DOW) to raise Ca, if you use limewater (kalkwasser) to do it, then your PH will go up. I am not in agreement with 300 ppm Ca being good. Keep it between 400-450, Alk should be 8-10 DKH and PH 8.1-8.4.

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 09:45 AM

I have B-ionic. Please explain - CaCl2 (DOW)? Would B-ionic be something I could use to raise Ca to the 400 range and not raise pH? Thanks!

mystikdragon7 · 05/08/2006, 11:06 AM

I believe if you raise the calcium it will in turn lower the alk. which will help bring down the pH.

manowar41 · 05/08/2006, 11:24 AM

raise your calcium to 425 your alkalinity will lower then raise your alk to about 9 it is a balancing act be patient

WaterKeeper · 05/08/2006, 11:36 AM

Use the B-ionic Part 2 to raise calcium without raising alkalinity.

Oh and

Hi Man `O War

To Reef Central

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 11:39 AM

Do I dose part 2 per the instructions, just leave out part 1?

WaterKeeper · 05/08/2006, 11:44 AM

Yes.

Here's a Calculator

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 11:54 AM

WaterKeeper,
If I calculated correctly I need to add quite a bit of Bionic part 2. Do you suggest doing that over several days?

WaterKeeper · 05/08/2006, 12:00 PM

Yes I would. Space them out so you add 3 doses rather than one. Calcium won't harm anything but it may precipitate if you add one big dose. Give it another day after you are finished and retest. Good Luck.

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 12:18 PM

Thanks so much.

- Clownchic

L and L · 05/08/2006, 12:55 PM

That's correct. Calcium in NSW is around 380-480ppm. I was really aiming at your pH being fine. Nothing worse than adding a bunch of stuff to get your pH down. Your Calcium is a little low, but I wouldn't certainly call it bad.

The only additive I add is Kalkwasser. keeps my phosphates down and keeps my alk and calcium up. Kalkwasser is cheaper than usiung Bionic... but, Bionic is easier. =)

Good luck,

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 01:17 PM

Being still new at this, easy is good. After I get a feel for the "chemistry" I would most definitely like to do "cheaper".

Spuds725 · 05/08/2006, 01:46 PM

Being as you haven't mentioned your alk, check it... Ignore your pH for now.... your alk and calcium are very interelated-- so if you start dosing calcium (especially too quick) you can deplete your alkalinity and then your pH can crash..... test your alk to see where its at and dose the parts of the 2 part as necessary... You may not have to add the alk part, but you still want to know where its at...

Here is a good read on the alkalinity/calcium relationship...

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

Also, try checking your pH before lights on and see if you have a drop overnight (very common due to elevated CO2 levels)-- In most instances you don't need to chase pH-- take care of everything else and the pH will usually take care of itself..

the cheaper recipes (for 2 parts) can be found here--- Kalkwassar is another discussion...

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...f/index.php#15

I do agree you are being smart to learn the chemistry first

L and L · 05/08/2006, 01:49 PM

Well said Bill.

clownchic · 05/08/2006, 02:20 PM

I have a Salifert test for Alk. I test tonight. Thanks for all the great advice and the links. It's sort of like trying to balance the chemicals in my swimming pool, but much more satisfying result.

- Clownchic

WaterKeeper · 05/09/2006, 08:21 AM

Darn it Bill, you don't listen to Randy over on the Chemistry Forum do you?

05/08/2006, 06:18 AM	#2
L and L Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vicksburg, Mississippi Posts: 1,147	Everything is fine. No need to adjust. Did you take the pH reading at the beginning or end of your photocycle? __________________ Layne Current Tank Info: 100g Reef with DSB 120#LR (30g Sump /20g Refugium /20g RO/DI /5g Kalk) VHO 280w MH 2@175 10kk LiterMeter III (RO/DI and Kalk) Velocity pumps T3(sump) and T4(closed loop) EuroReef CS6-2 and 30g FOwLR (DSB, sumpless, skimmerless)

05/08/2006, 06:38 AM	#3
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	Toward the end __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 09:23 AM	#5
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	I'm currently using IO, but recently bought Reef Crystals to use next. I want Ca higher but as I understand if I raise Ca my pH will go up? __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 09:45 AM	#7
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	I have B-ionic. Please explain - CaCl2 (DOW)? Would B-ionic be something I could use to raise Ca to the 400 range and not raise pH? Thanks! __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 11:06 AM	#8
mystikdragon7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 1,051	I believe if you raise the calcium it will in turn lower the alk. which will help bring down the pH. __________________ Patience is a vitrue Current Tank Info: 60gal reef, 2 175 watt MH, 2 95 watt VHO Actinics, 20 gal sump; 30gal FOWLR, pair of B&W baby perculas

05/07/2006, 10:02 PM	#1
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	8.4 pH but 300 Ca My 90 gallon has been up and running about 8 weeks now. No corals just live rock, sand and snails. Today I took some Salifert measurements and my pH is on the high side (8.4) but my Ca is at 300. Is this OK at this point? How can I lower the pH to 8.2 and yet raise the Ca to the 375-400 range? FYI - I am doing weekly 10% water changes, usnig a Deltec MCE600 skimmer if that makes a difference. No ammonia, 0 nitrates and nitrites. __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 08:13 AM	#4
Dan Thrash Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 578	what type of salt are you using? the ReefCrystals i use give me a higher pH at 8.4, alk is on the higher range, but i think calcium is slightly low.

05/08/2006, 09:42 AM	#6
kevensquint Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: new york Posts: 2,277	NO, your PH should'nt be affected by using CaCl2 (DOW) to raise Ca, if you use limewater (kalkwasser) to do it, then your PH will go up. I am not in agreement with 300 ppm Ca being good. Keep it between 400-450, Alk should be 8-10 DKH and PH 8.1-8.4.

05/08/2006, 11:24 AM	#9
manowar41 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5	raise your calcium to 425 your alkalinity will lower then raise your alk to about 9 it is a balancing act be patient

05/08/2006, 11:36 AM	#10
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Use the B-ionic Part 2 to raise calcium without raising alkalinity. Oh and Hi Man `O War *To Reef Central* __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

05/08/2006, 11:39 AM	#11
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	Do I dose part 2 per the instructions, just leave out part 1? __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 11:44 AM	#12
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Yes. Here's a Calculator __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

05/08/2006, 11:54 AM	#13
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	WaterKeeper, If I calculated correctly I need to add quite a bit of Bionic part 2. Do you suggest doing that over several days? __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 12:00 PM	#14
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Yes I would. Space them out so you add 3 doses rather than one. Calcium won't harm anything but it may precipitate if you add one big dose. Give it another day after you are finished and retest. Good Luck. __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29

05/08/2006, 12:18 PM	#15
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	Thanks so much. - Clownchic __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 12:55 PM	#16
L and L Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vicksburg, Mississippi Posts: 1,147	That's correct. Calcium in NSW is around 380-480ppm. I was really aiming at your pH being fine. Nothing worse than adding a bunch of stuff to get your pH down. Your Calcium is a little low, but I wouldn't certainly call it bad. The only additive I add is Kalkwasser. keeps my phosphates down and keeps my alk and calcium up. Kalkwasser is cheaper than usiung Bionic... but, Bionic is easier. =) Good luck, __________________ Layne Current Tank Info: 100g Reef with DSB 120#LR (30g Sump /20g Refugium /20g RO/DI /5g Kalk) VHO 280w MH 2@175 10kk LiterMeter III (RO/DI and Kalk) Velocity pumps T3(sump) and T4(closed loop) EuroReef CS6-2 and 30g FOwLR (DSB, sumpless, skimmerless)

05/08/2006, 01:17 PM	#17
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	Being still new at this, easy is good. After I get a feel for the "chemistry" I would most definitely like to do "cheaper". __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/08/2006, 01:46 PM	#18
Spuds725 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Toledo, Ohio USA Posts: 2,051	Being as you haven't mentioned your alk, check it... Ignore your pH for now.... your alk and calcium are very interelated-- so if you start dosing calcium (especially too quick) you can deplete your alkalinity and then your pH can crash..... test your alk to see where its at and dose the parts of the 2 part as necessary... You may not have to add the alk part, but you still want to know where its at... Here is a good read on the alkalinity/calcium relationship... http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm Also, try checking your pH before lights on and see if you have a drop overnight (very common due to elevated CO2 levels)-- In most instances you don't need to chase pH-- take care of everything else and the pH will usually take care of itself.. the cheaper recipes (for 2 parts) can be found here--- Kalkwassar is another discussion... http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...f/index.php#15 I do agree you are being smart to learn the chemistry first __________________ "I only have time to neglect one tank"-- Me "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work, I want to achieve immortality by not dying"-- Woody Allen Current Tank Info: 125G mixed reef with 135G Sump

05/08/2006, 01:49 PM	#19
L and L Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vicksburg, Mississippi Posts: 1,147	Well said Bill. __________________ Layne Current Tank Info: 100g Reef with DSB 120#LR (30g Sump /20g Refugium /20g RO/DI /5g Kalk) VHO 280w MH 2@175 10kk LiterMeter III (RO/DI and Kalk) Velocity pumps T3(sump) and T4(closed loop) EuroReef CS6-2 and 30g FOwLR (DSB, sumpless, skimmerless)

05/08/2006, 02:20 PM	#20
clownchic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 429	I have a Salifert test for Alk. I test tonight. Thanks for all the great advice and the links. It's sort of like trying to balance the chemicals in my swimming pool, but much more satisfying result. - Clownchic __________________ It's all good. Current Tank Info: 25 gallon reef with clown, coral beauty & dragonet, soft corals. 90 gallon reef: a few SPS,many LPS,3 dispar anthias,2 XL chromis, pair of percula clowns,yellow tang,royal gramma copperband butterfly. Deltec 600MCE, 2X250 HQI, two 6000 Tunze str

05/09/2006, 08:21 AM	#21
WaterKeeper Bogus Information Expert Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 16,147	Darn it Bill, you don't listen to Randy over on the Chemistry Forum do you? __________________ "Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation" Tom Current Tank Info: 130 Now out of service and a 29