is it too late..

onecrzyboi4u · 05/07/2006, 10:02 PM

ok.. i have the gravel substrate.. it's real hard for me to keep the damn thing clean.. so here is my question. would i be ok if i changed it with arag sand.. or would i be starting over again? i plan on doin all this in a day. saving my old filters for a month to help with the bacteria build up.. would i be ok or am i too late.

Amphiprion · 05/07/2006, 10:04 PM

Assuming you have plenty of live rock, you will only have a small cycle (very small in many circumstances). Just keep an eye out and be prepared to do water changes if necessary.

onecrzyboi4u · 05/07/2006, 10:13 PM

well.. i'm workin on more live rock.. question is.. i have a 29 gal tank.. so how much live rock should i have? so far i only have about 7 lvs of live rock.

Amphiprion · 05/07/2006, 10:18 PM

For stability's sake, I would definitely get some more and allow your tank to settle a bit before you do that. Otherwise, you might risk some serious problems. Most folks shoot for a pound per gallon, however, you can deviate in either direction from that amount, depending upon your aquascaping tastes, etc.

onecrzyboi4u · 05/07/2006, 10:47 PM

well wouldn't that cut back on swimmin room for fish.. so would 20 be ok

zoltetov · 05/07/2006, 10:50 PM

depends what kind of fish you got. what you packin in there?

onecrzyboi4u · 05/07/2006, 11:15 PM

2 sabae clowns, yellowtail damsel, sargent major, sixline wressie, sailfin blenny, and going to get a goby.

zoltetov · 05/08/2006, 07:39 AM

Woah!! I'd think I'd be way more concerned with the amount of fish in there then I would with the amount of live rock. Unless you're planning on upgrading REAL SOON, I'd hold off on adding anything else to it. 29 gallons isn't a whole lot. Your bio-load, as it stands, is tremendous, and you don't have a heck of a lot of natural filtration. (For the heck of it, what kind of filtration do you have?) You definitely need more live rock. If I were you, which I'm not, I'd pick a few fish that I really like out of your set-up, exchange the others for live rock, and go from there. Anyway, that's just my opinion. Good luck either way!!

onecrzyboi4u · 05/08/2006, 09:54 AM

right now i just have a canister filter.

manowar41 · 05/08/2006, 11:40 AM

yes you should use approximately 1 lb . per gallon you also need to either upsize your tank or get rid of some fish your bio load is too much to handle for that small of a tank

Shooter7 · 05/08/2006, 11:50 AM

I think you should scrap the whole thing and start over. Someone who's been on here as long as you have should know the answers to what you're asking.

Randall_James · 05/08/2006, 11:58 AM

Sounds like major bioload

angelsj247 · 05/08/2006, 12:18 PM

if you want to replace the gravel i think its best if you change it little at a time to not cause a big cycle

IslandCrow · 05/08/2006, 12:46 PM

Scrap the whole thing? That sounds like harsh (and rather rash) advise. Can't we stick with giving this guy constructive comments?

Shooter7 · 05/08/2006, 12:58 PM

Yeah, scrap the whole thing...and that was a "constructive comment". He has a substrate he doesn't want, not enough live rock, and too high a bioload for his tank. So, my advice would be to remove the livestock and see if he can either sell or return to store for credit. Pull the rock and substrate he's got, replace the substrate as he wants to do already, put the correct amount of live rock in the tank, let it cycle as it's supposed to and meanwhile make sure he has adequate flow in the tank and perhaps pick up an Aqua C Remora or SuperSkimmer to hang on it, and finally once all the parameters are as they should be, slowly restock as the tank should be. For a 29 gal tank, it's not that big a deal. Now, if this were a 120 gal or 200 gal or whatever, obviously one could not take this approach lightly. But in this case if I really wanted to trade out that substrate and get the rest of the tank within the confines of where it should be, then I'd do it in a heartbeat...and it wouldn't really cost anything extra other than the new substrate and rock that he would be needing anyway. Guess it depends on what your definition of scrapping the whole tank is. Didn't say to throw it all away, just decide a major overhaul of the whole thing is in order.

Randall_James · 05/08/2006, 01:27 PM

Tough love man tough love, but he is correct. Working around the shortcomings is going to be rough

zoltetov · 05/08/2006, 05:51 PM

yeah, i agree with Shooter too. Sorry bud, but, you live, you learn, you start over.

05/07/2006, 10:02 PM	#1
onecrzyboi4u Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lexington VA Posts: 1,893	is it too late.. ok.. i have the gravel substrate.. it's real hard for me to keep the damn thing clean.. so here is my question. would i be ok if i changed it with arag sand.. or would i be starting over again? i plan on doin all this in a day. saving my old filters for a month to help with the bacteria build up.. would i be ok or am i too late.

05/07/2006, 10:04 PM	#2
Amphiprion Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 6,611	Assuming you have plenty of live rock, you will only have a small cycle (very small in many circumstances). Just keep an eye out and be prepared to do water changes if necessary. __________________ You've done it now, haven't you? Current Tank Info: 40g breeder patch reef w/ seagrass; 2-250w XM 10K; Vortech MP40wES & MP10wES; BM Curve 7 skimmer; carbon & occasional GFO

05/07/2006, 10:18 PM	#4
Amphiprion Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 6,611	For stability's sake, I would definitely get some more and allow your tank to settle a bit before you do that. Otherwise, you might risk some serious problems. Most folks shoot for a pound per gallon, however, you can deviate in either direction from that amount, depending upon your aquascaping tastes, etc. __________________ You've done it now, haven't you? Current Tank Info: 40g breeder patch reef w/ seagrass; 2-250w XM 10K; Vortech MP40wES & MP10wES; BM Curve 7 skimmer; carbon & occasional GFO

05/07/2006, 10:50 PM	#6
zoltetov Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Miramar, Florida (miami-ish) Posts: 920	depends what kind of fish you got. what you packin in there? __________________ It's not THAT the wind is blowing... It's WHAT the wind is blowing... - Ron White Current Tank Info: 46g bow-front, 2x250w MH w/ 250w XM 15Ks, AquaC Remora skimmer, mag-5 return, 2 x Seio 820s, 100+lbs of live rock, 5-6" DSB, Baby-girl my GSM, Sigmund the Fairy Wrasse, and a softie collection.

05/08/2006, 07:39 AM	#8
zoltetov Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Miramar, Florida (miami-ish) Posts: 920	Woah!! I'd think I'd be way more concerned with the amount of fish in there then I would with the amount of live rock. Unless you're planning on upgrading REAL SOON, I'd hold off on adding anything else to it. 29 gallons isn't a whole lot. Your bio-load, as it stands, is tremendous, and you don't have a heck of a lot of natural filtration. (For the heck of it, what kind of filtration do you have?) You definitely need more live rock. If I were you, which I'm not, I'd pick a few fish that I really like out of your set-up, exchange the others for live rock, and go from there. Anyway, that's just my opinion. Good luck either way!! __________________ It's not THAT the wind is blowing... It's WHAT the wind is blowing... - Ron White Current Tank Info: 46g bow-front, 2x250w MH w/ 250w XM 15Ks, AquaC Remora skimmer, mag-5 return, 2 x Seio 820s, 100+lbs of live rock, 5-6" DSB, Baby-girl my GSM, Sigmund the Fairy Wrasse, and a softie collection.

05/07/2006, 10:13 PM	#3
onecrzyboi4u Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lexington VA Posts: 1,893	well.. i'm workin on more live rock.. question is.. i have a 29 gal tank.. so how much live rock should i have? so far i only have about 7 lvs of live rock.

05/07/2006, 10:47 PM	#5
onecrzyboi4u Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lexington VA Posts: 1,893	well wouldn't that cut back on swimmin room for fish.. so would 20 be ok

05/07/2006, 11:15 PM	#7
onecrzyboi4u Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lexington VA Posts: 1,893	2 sabae clowns, yellowtail damsel, sargent major, sixline wressie, sailfin blenny, and going to get a goby.

05/08/2006, 09:54 AM	#9
onecrzyboi4u Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lexington VA Posts: 1,893	right now i just have a canister filter.

05/08/2006, 11:40 AM	#10
manowar41 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5	yes you should use approximately 1 lb . per gallon you also need to either upsize your tank or get rid of some fish your bio load is too much to handle for that small of a tank

05/08/2006, 11:50 AM	#11
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	I think you should scrap the whole thing and start over. Someone who's been on here as long as you have should know the answers to what you're asking. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

05/08/2006, 11:58 AM	#12
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	Sounds like major bioload __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

05/08/2006, 12:18 PM	#13
angelsj247 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Joliet, IL Posts: 866	if you want to replace the gravel i think its best if you change it little at a time to not cause a big cycle __________________ 2 perc clownfish, 2 peppermint shrimp, astrea, turbo, & nassarius snails, 20 lbs Live Rock Current Tank Info: 20gal FOWLR

05/08/2006, 12:46 PM	#14
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Scrap the whole thing? That sounds like harsh (and rather rash) advise. Can't we stick with giving this guy constructive comments? __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?

05/08/2006, 12:58 PM	#15
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	Yeah, scrap the whole thing...and that was a "constructive comment". He has a substrate he doesn't want, not enough live rock, and too high a bioload for his tank. So, my advice would be to remove the livestock and see if he can either sell or return to store for credit. Pull the rock and substrate he's got, replace the substrate as he wants to do already, put the correct amount of live rock in the tank, let it cycle as it's supposed to and meanwhile make sure he has adequate flow in the tank and perhaps pick up an Aqua C Remora or SuperSkimmer to hang on it, and finally once all the parameters are as they should be, slowly restock as the tank should be. For a 29 gal tank, it's not that big a deal. Now, if this were a 120 gal or 200 gal or whatever, obviously one could not take this approach lightly. But in this case if I really wanted to trade out that substrate and get the rest of the tank within the confines of where it should be, then I'd do it in a heartbeat...and it wouldn't really cost anything extra other than the new substrate and rock that he would be needing anyway. Guess it depends on what your definition of scrapping the whole tank is. Didn't say to throw it all away, just decide a major overhaul of the whole thing is in order. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

05/08/2006, 01:27 PM	#16
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	Tough love man tough love, but he is correct. Working around the shortcomings is going to be rough __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

05/08/2006, 05:51 PM	#17
zoltetov Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Miramar, Florida (miami-ish) Posts: 920	yeah, i agree with Shooter too. Sorry bud, but, you live, you learn, you start over. __________________ It's not THAT the wind is blowing... It's WHAT the wind is blowing... - Ron White Current Tank Info: 46g bow-front, 2x250w MH w/ 250w XM 15Ks, AquaC Remora skimmer, mag-5 return, 2 x Seio 820s, 100+lbs of live rock, 5-6" DSB, Baby-girl my GSM, Sigmund the Fairy Wrasse, and a softie collection.