Should I help a newbie in a LFS?

[Lockes]

So I was at the local LFS this weekend and I must admit that I was window shopping and was not going to buy anything.

However they had just got a new shipment in and wanted to look around and in the process of doing so I overheard a father telling her daighter to pick any four fish she wanted.OK that might be ok I thought! However he then said how about four of those - they were Bicolor Pseudochromis - so I thought to myself that is not going to work.

A few minutes later I saw that he had decided upon clowns, you know little nemo, but not 1 or 2 but six mixing up oscellaris and clarkii of varying sizes. So I decided to give him some advise on the matter. I found out that he has a 3 foot tank with gravel and natural seawater. He had come into the shop the previous week and they said the salinity was too high so he had changed half the water for fresh and I should not have to tell you that everything died. He obviously received no instruction on this matter

Now my point of this post is that too what extent should you start trying to educate a newbie in a store. I am guilty of an impulse buy when starting out but must we let them learn from their mistakes or let them know that actually the setup is completely wrong and that they need to spend a lot more money if they ever expect to get anywhere in this hobby? I could have delivered a lot of bad news to him such as the place he was collecting water from is pretty polluted and what he should be doing is making his own water. I did not even want to ask if he had a heater.

I don't like the fact that the LFS was just putting any fish that he liked into a bag and not actually trying to educate the guy. Do they not know that the more successful he is the longer he may stay in the hobby. Not everyone spends time on reefcentral researching everything before doing anything.

[gsxrguru2]

that is definitely pretty bad. I know when I get into a new hobby, half the fun is researching everything that I can get my hands on to learn as much as possible. When I've run into people just getting into the hobby, I always ask them if they've heard of RC. I figure I've gotten a huge amount of my knowledge from here and just hope that by passing on that information, I can help someone else get into the hobby w/ minimal complications. That being said, there are still many people out there that are just plain ignorant or too dumb to realize that they don't know everything about everything and will be determined to do whatever it is they want on their own... so I guess my passing on the info of RC is only half of the equation. At least the idiots that get into this hobby don't seem to last very long.

[gsxrguru2]

oh, and about your original question, I'd say that if the person you're offering advice to is receptive, then YES by all means give them some pointers. The specific person you were talking to sounds as though he would've been better off scrapping what he had and starting out at square one as they say. My assumption is that since he was there with his daughter telling her to pick out the fish she wanted, he probably wouldn't have been very receptive to going home empty handed... in which case suggesting RC would've probably been a good move.

[george1098]

Most of the time I am inclined to let ingnorant people who don't do their research waist their money and learn the hard way how to do things. However, when it comes to reefkeeping, or the keeping of any pet for that matter, the lives of these poor little animals may be at risk, so I may intervene. I know it may be a little akward, if you are not actually an employee of the LFS, to walk up to a total stranger and start preaching, but if the fish store employees aren't going to do it than someone really should do the guy (and his fish) a favor. The folks at my LFS are really good. from my own experience, they have probably spent more time talking me out of buying a fish than talking me into it. It all comes back to a pretty simple little rule that any small, medium or large buiseness owner should understand, and that is happy customers tend to be repeat customers. I can't think of anything more discouraging to a potential reefer than watching a bunch of fish die (the reason i got out of freshwater), so even though it may not be your place, you would be doing both the guy and your LFS a favor by intervening.
thants my two cents anyway.

[slapshot16]

If you were a newbie would you want a total stranger telling you what to do? My answer: YES!

[dark_stranger]

I have one a few occassions pointed people shopping alongside me that they may have problems with that or this combination or they will need to make sure that this has happened or that has happened. One in perticular was a guy buying fish within the 1st week of setting up a tank, the thing was he had brought a ready made package and thought he could just introduce fish. The worrying thing was, was that he had been sold loads of live rock, only to be told by myself that it was not live rock, but solid ocean rock. Most people need advise some time or another, but just make sure your diplomatic about how and what you tell them.

[dwsindy]

My first inclination might be to tactfully steer the customer in the correct direction but ultimately it might be worth a conversation with the LFS manager about his employees actions and I likely would not patronize the store again.

[sttroyiii]

I try to give a helpful suggestion very casually. If they perk up and ask another question, then Ill help any way I can. If they arent receptive, then why bother....

[stevedola]

it all depends...if you some how find yourself at petco or a store similar then yes give the advice (as long a the newbie is accepting). If youre at a lfs that has people who know better then point them to the store employees. I have come across some lfs personel that dont like when you discuss their lively hood infront of them. As long as you feel comfortable knowing they will get the proper information.

[Randall_James]

"Excuse me can I offer you some advice about your fish?" Just jumping in and telling him "Hey you are making a mistake" may not be as well received.

Kudos for jumping in regardless of how it is done however

[Lockes]

Yeah I agree I suppose becuase you feel guilt in a LFS telling customers to actually not buy that and maybe go witht that as if you are cheating the store or something. However surely an LFS has an education role as well and not just money making motive.

[PatrickJ]

When I was working at a LFS, I told people not to do stupid stuff. For example, "Can I keep one of those pretty blue fishes in just a bowl...like a goldfish?"

I sat them down, put a book in their hand, got up in the front of the class, and took them to school. Granted they are unexperinced, however, being a moron does not count...

You should set them straight, why let them waste their money and get all discourage when all their stuff dies? Why kill a fish? The enviroment is already impacted by unsound collection practices, why add more fish to their list?

[akrimmel]

wow that guy need to get a clue, it pretty clear he has money to blow so let him learn the hard way!!!!!!!!!!!

[gkarshens]

Originally posted by sttroyiii
I try to give a helpful suggestion very casually. If they perk up and ask another question, then Ill help any way I can. If they arent receptive, then why bother....

This is exactly what I do. So far almost everyone I have said something to has begun asking more questions. If an LFS gets mad that you talk a customer out of a sale that would kill the fish, then I would not support that store anymore. If someone was going to put puppies in a situation that would kill them everyone would have something to say about that.

[akrimmel]

he's in for it then?

[AZDesertRat]

My LFS sometimes gets me involved in the conversation if I happen to be standing there. I usually start out by introducing myself and telling them that I am the President of our local saltwater club and invite them to a meeting. This usually breaks the ice and we can discuss their wants and needs.
I try not to offend the LFS because our club depends on them for donations and raffle prizes but sometimes its pretty hard to stay neutral.

[akrimmel]

yeah dont burn your bridges where they start?

[Randall_James]

Originally posted by akrimmel
wow that guy need to get a clue, it pretty clear he has money to blow so let him learn the hard way!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually that type of attitude is bad for the hobby in many ways.

A guy spends money and loses it because of a simple error
He gets discouraged and quits the hobby. Volume makes our prices lower. If you are the only guy in town buying marine salt, you are going to spend a lot more than a town with 100 guys purchasing the same product. (simple business)

Secondly. You have inexperience people killing animals without cause. This brings into light conservation and really why harvest animals and send them to someone that has no clue how to take care of it. You now end up with the tree hugger banning trade and import of animals someone can take care of in a reasonable manner because 200 of the died at the hands of new reef keepers.

The attitude "let them eat dirt" really flies in the face of Reef Central as a whole. Most of the people here started as N00bs with enough ambition to learn about the animals they wanted to have. They then pass what they have learned on to the next guy as well as to the experts. The experts learn a lot from hobbyists..

I think you should think about your outlook on new reef keepers personally... (or at least reserver harsh comments to n00bs)

[ste6168]

I ahvent read the whole thread, so if the topic changed a little then by all means sorry... but whenever i go to an LFS and see a newbie asking alot of questions to the emplyees and getting either bad or not very good advice. I always wait until the employee leaves for a minuet then ofer my advise- usually the customers seem pretty intent to listen and i then go ahead and ask them if they have heard of RC or the local club, along with giving them a card from our local club.

[akrimmel]

well i doubt the guy doen't know what he's doing he is rushing the process most likely and doesn't want to wait like the most of the newbies been there myself a few times!

[kappaknight]

In this case, I think the guy has absolutely no idea what he's doing. I've been there myself and there's a huge difference between rushing the process than emptying half the tank and re-filling it with fresh water to lower the salinity.

[fish are life]

when i am bagging up or helping a costumer out with a salt water fish at my work i always make a point of it to give them all the knowledge i knwo about the fish or invert. i hate it when people come in and want to buy somethign like a carpet anemone when they have no special lights or no knowledge about it.

[stevedola]

akrimmel, thats a bad attitude to have towards your fellow reefer. If you have the knowledge why not give the man a candle to light his way. At least instruct him where to find the info (ie RC or comparable site). Maybe if someone had taken the time to show you the way (when you were a newb) you might be farther along in your progression. Have some compassion and be that guy.

On a different note:
My regular LFS will incorporate me into the conversion to help prove his point and also show new customers that hes not just full of bologna. However, many times Ill inform newbs of local reef clubs and websites to help them with their questions/problems. What ever questions arise I try to answer but (you all know) there is alot of info and personal preferences in this hobby so that why I give them a resource to make their own decisions. Also, I try not to do this in front of the LFS manager because many believe that reef clubs cut into their profit (true and false).

[Randall_James]

Yes the LFS owners dislike frag swapping with a passion, however if they were wise, they would get involved.

They could dedicate a single little tank to the club in the back room and charge rent time.

Club members could use it as a drop/trade point. You know what it is like trying to get by someones house the same time they are there sometimes? They may not get rich of the little bit of revenue but Hey if I am already there, I am going to buy my food, meds, fish , or supplies that I need right now or would rather get face2face instead over the internet.

A concept that needs tested and tweaked but sure sounds good in my head

[vthondaboi]

tread lightly as you're not the one paying the bills

if you want to offer advice all the time then open a store and dispense away

that being said I offer advice once in a while, but only in blatantly obvious situations