Instant Ocean Salt Has Problems

texjagman · 05/19/2006, 08:03 AM

I also posted this alert in the Chemistry area, so this thread is really just to make sure the message gets out. No need to respond to this thread. I assume the discussion will be on the Chemistry thread....thx

I am primarily posting this thread over concerns I have run into with Instant Ocean Salt. I'm concerned for others tanks and I am frustrated with Instant Ocean's handling of my problem. The last case of Instant Ocean salt I purchased back in January, caused a major calcium problem in my tank.

I know...most would say high calcium, wouldn't that be a nice problem to have. But in actuality I had a range problem pushing 700-900 PPM which did some coral damage due to plummeting my alkalinity levels and it took us some time to isolate it was in fact due to my salt. While your first reaction is to do water changes, in fact I was actually causing the problem to get worse. Once we knew, I switched to Reef Crystals and my local shop has repeatedly asked the rep what they would do. To date they have not responded to her and won't even acknowledge the salt is the source.

We sent them the current open bag as well as my last full bag and they still have not responded. It's beginning to appear there is a lack of response on their part to keep from taking some responsibility for what has happened. My local shop tested another bag she had and found the same levels. So we do not know the extent of this problem and she is returning all her Instant Ocean salt. The whole process took about 6-7 weeks to isolate the cause and slowly work the levels back to normal range so as not to shock the tank.

I just wanted people to know, if you happen to be registering high calcium levels and / or your alkalinity suddenly is more difficult to maintain, and you are using Instant Ocean Salt, this may be your answer.

TheVillageIdiot · 05/19/2006, 08:22 AM

i had a batch of instant ocean that, upon mixing, would only produce a Ca level of 300ppm.

:-(

dallascwbyz · 05/19/2006, 08:56 AM

Same here. I was doing water changes with reg IO and was only getting about 300-320ppm CA. I have just switched to their Reef Crystals to see if that helps. I'm tired of adding CA after the fact, and would like to stop if I can. I haven't done a water change with the IO R.C. yet to see if my Ca stays in a healthy state.

LobsterOfJustice · 05/19/2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Same here. I was doing water changes with reg IO and was only getting about 300-320ppm CA

I believe this is IO's "usual" level for calcium, so it wouldnt be considered a problem (although it is very low).

Billybeau1 · 05/19/2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dallascwbyz
Same here. I was doing water changes with reg IO and was only getting about 300-320ppm CA. I have just switched to their Reef Crystals to see if that helps. I'm tired of adding CA after the fact, and would like to stop if I can. I haven't done a water change with the IO R.C. yet to see if my Ca stays in a healthy state.

You should find increased calcium levels in Reef Crystals. Somewhere in the low 400's.

marinelife · 05/19/2006, 09:26 AM

that would be why I add CA to my new water mix before adding it to my tank

thrlride · 05/19/2006, 10:26 AM

LobsterOfJustice is right, 300'ish is normal. In fact, my freshly mixed IO to 1.025 is 320 calcium and 1170 magnesium, both very low.

TimmyB · 05/19/2006, 10:27 AM

DAMN, wish I had this thread to read this a couple weeks ago....

I just set up my new 58gallon, all the water was made with IO(which I have always used and never had an issue)

And I too am seeing VERY high Calcium levels in my tank. I thought my test kit may have been old... or the tank was still cycling or something.... Levels appear to be over 700ppm.

Luckily I do not have any life i the tank yet, other then some snails, live rock, algae in the refugium and live sand in the refugium.

What can I do to get my Calcium levels back in check?

Tim

omni2226 · 05/19/2006, 10:37 AM

Are you using RO/DI water? Keep in mind most salt mixes are for tapwater. If your using RO/DI you may want to use salt mix made for RO/DI users. These mixes have more calcium, magnesium and iodine along with other things to compensate for what is removed by RO/DI.

Look at the websites and instructions on the "reef" type salt mixes for more information about this.

omni2226 · 05/19/2006, 10:43 AM

You will also find that the makers of "reef" salts recommend testing and altering your calcium (kalkwasser) dosing due to the additianol additives/elements in reef crystal type salts.

omni2226 · 05/19/2006, 10:52 AM

Here is an snippet from information on reef crystals made by insant ocean. Notice the " reduces need for additives" . So if you are using reef crystal type salts and dont change your other dosing methods you may run into problems.

Quote :

Enriched Reef Crystals Reef Salt is formulated especially for reef aquariums. Contains extra calcium, select trace elements, and vitamins above natural seawater concentrations. These extra measures reduce the need for constant supplements and additives to replenish essential substances quickly depleted in thriving reef aquariums. Reef CrystalsÃ‚Â® also contains special additives to help detoxify excess heavy metals such as copper and is fully compatible with all marine aquariums.

End Quote.

TimmyB · 05/19/2006, 10:53 AM

I use RO\DI water in my setup. So not sure why my calcium levels would be so high. IO does not boast added calcium to my knowledge, like RC does.

Will look into a salt mix for RO\DI water... but right now need to worry about getting my levels back to normal.

impur · 05/19/2006, 11:00 AM

I kept seeing how so many nice reefs are using IO so i bought a bag. I mixed it up to 1.025 SG and tested it. Calcium was 240-260ppm and alk was around 3dkh. I threw it in the garbage.

Thats interesting yours had such high calcium. I guess it just goes to show the inconsistancy from bag to bag of this stuff.

mg426 · 05/19/2006, 12:04 PM

I got 425 ca. from my last bucket. Iallways measure the first batch I mix from a new bucket. I will be keeping a close eye on it from now on though.

reefcapnnick · 05/19/2006, 12:20 PM

Well this is is disheartening.. what kind of mix do you guys recommend for RO/DI water?

duec22 · 05/19/2006, 12:51 PM

Salinity can have a big effect on these values. I've been useing IO from the start. I had started to notice that when I mixed it up and tested it I was getting Ca at about 420, alk at about 12, and Mg somewhere around 1500. It was not the salt's fault, it was mine for useing a hydrometer instead of a refracometer. Which makes me suspicous of reports like this....was makeup water checked with a refracometer and at what salinity was it made up to.

impur · 05/19/2006, 02:07 PM

I use a refractometer.

omni2226 · 05/19/2006, 03:04 PM

I dont know. IO has been a mainstay in the marine hobby for a long time.

900 calcium in a tank and no precipatation event? Mmmmm.
This testing at the fish store. Bad salt in what way? High levels low levels? What was the calcium level in the water used to make the seawater before the salt was added?

Many questions to ask and facts to double check before you throw your instant ocean salt away.

mike89t · 05/19/2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thrlride
LobsterOfJustice is right, 300'ish is normal. In fact, my freshly mixed IO to 1.025 is 320 calcium and 1170 magnesium, both very low.

That is pretty much what I get whenever I make a fresh batch of IO Salt water. I just add some Ca and Mg to bring them up to where I like them. Usually bring Ca up to 430 and Mg up to 1300 with B-Ionic Calcium and Mg supplements.

Shroom King · 05/19/2006, 05:04 PM

Very interesting. I've never checked calcium on freshly mixed SW when doing a water change, just the salinity. Never thought it was really an issue, and I've always used IO. If my levels were ever out of wack, I just figured I'd done something stupid myself...again. Guess I'll check from now on. Makes sense to know what you're putting in...

mattseattle · 05/19/2006, 05:46 PM

I just checked my IO and levels are the same as they have been for years. Calcium was 350. I just bought this 160 gallon tub about 2 weeks ago.

Ursus · 05/19/2006, 05:51 PM

Seems like every salt has had a bad batch here and there. Rather disturbing.

Sullivmw · 05/19/2006, 05:53 PM

Are you certain on the 700-900 on the CA ? I am not trying to question the validity, but want to make sure you do not have a test kit error, or something to that effect. The reason I am asking, I do not see how it would be possible for it not to precipitate out, unless the ALK was off the chart low ?

Red_Six · 05/20/2006, 05:53 PM

I just mixed 30 gallons of IO.

Salinity 1.025
Calcium 330 ppm
Magnesium 945 ppm

Weatherman · 05/20/2006, 06:32 PM

New 14-gallon batch (I always tweak it with around 7 1/2 ml of CaCL):

Specific gravity: 1.0255
Calcium: 430 ppm
Alk: 12 dKH

Very typical numbers for IO.

05/19/2006, 08:03 AM	#1
texjagman Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6	Instant Ocean Salt Has Problems I also posted this alert in the Chemistry area, so this thread is really just to make sure the message gets out. No need to respond to this thread. I assume the discussion will be on the Chemistry thread....thx I am primarily posting this thread over concerns I have run into with Instant Ocean Salt. I'm concerned for others tanks and I am frustrated with Instant Ocean's handling of my problem. The last case of Instant Ocean salt I purchased back in January, caused a major calcium problem in my tank. I know...most would say high calcium, wouldn't that be a nice problem to have. But in actuality I had a range problem pushing 700-900 PPM which did some coral damage due to plummeting my alkalinity levels and it took us some time to isolate it was in fact due to my salt. While your first reaction is to do water changes, in fact I was actually causing the problem to get worse. Once we knew, I switched to Reef Crystals and my local shop has repeatedly asked the rep what they would do. To date they have not responded to her and won't even acknowledge the salt is the source. We sent them the current open bag as well as my last full bag and they still have not responded. It's beginning to appear there is a lack of response on their part to keep from taking some responsibility for what has happened. My local shop tested another bag she had and found the same levels. So we do not know the extent of this problem and she is returning all her Instant Ocean salt. The whole process took about 6-7 weeks to isolate the cause and slowly work the levels back to normal range so as not to shock the tank. I just wanted people to know, if you happen to be registering high calcium levels and / or your alkalinity suddenly is more difficult to maintain, and you are using Instant Ocean Salt, this may be your answer.

05/19/2006, 08:22 AM	#2
TheVillageIdiot Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 894	i had a batch of instant ocean that, upon mixing, would only produce a Ca level of 300ppm. :-( __________________ Click my little red house! Current Tank Info: 65g Anemone Tank

05/19/2006, 08:56 AM	#3
dallascwbyz Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Seacoast NH Posts: 151	Same here. I was doing water changes with reg IO and was only getting about 300-320ppm CA. I have just switched to their Reef Crystals to see if that helps. I'm tired of adding CA after the fact, and would like to stop if I can. I haven't done a water change with the IO R.C. yet to see if my Ca stays in a healthy state. __________________ 120G Reef, 30G refuge, 2 X 250 MH HQI, 4 X T5, LED Moons. Current Tank Info: 120g reef, clams,sps,lps, softies. fuge plumbed into basement.

05/19/2006, 09:26 AM	#6
marinelife Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Union, Ohio, USA Posts: 6,590	that would be why I add CA to my new water mix before adding it to my tank __________________ I'm a SaltGeek are You? All LED since 2010. Current Tank Info: 375 Gallon Reef with siporax, all LED lighting, and Red Dragon 3 and Abyzz A200 on 2 closed loops.

05/19/2006, 10:26 AM	#7
thrlride Aka lemmywinks Join Date: May 2003 Location: Harrisburg, NC Posts: 8,017	LobsterOfJustice is right, 300'ish is normal. In fact, my freshly mixed IO to 1.025 is 320 calcium and 1170 magnesium, both very low. __________________ Beer Snob Current Tank Info: 210 gallon FOWLR (H&S 200a-1260 , panworld 50px-x, 2x Vortech w/ WWD)

05/19/2006, 10:27 AM	#8
TimmyB Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alexandria VA Posts: 41	DAMN, wish I had this thread to read this a couple weeks ago.... I just set up my new 58gallon, all the water was made with IO(which I have always used and never had an issue) And I too am seeing VERY high Calcium levels in my tank. I thought my test kit may have been old... or the tank was still cycling or something.... Levels appear to be over 700ppm. Luckily I do not have any life i the tank yet, other then some snails, live rock, algae in the refugium and live sand in the refugium. What can I do to get my Calcium levels back in check? Tim

05/19/2006, 10:37 AM	#9
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Are you using RO/DI water? Keep in mind most salt mixes are for tapwater. If your using RO/DI you may want to use salt mix made for RO/DI users. These mixes have more calcium, magnesium and iodine along with other things to compensate for what is removed by RO/DI. Look at the websites and instructions on the "reef" type salt mixes for more information about this. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/19/2006, 10:43 AM	#10
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	You will also find that the makers of "reef" salts recommend testing and altering your calcium (kalkwasser) dosing due to the additianol additives/elements in reef crystal type salts. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/19/2006, 10:52 AM	#11
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Here is an snippet from information on reef crystals made by insant ocean. Notice the " reduces need for additives" . So if you are using reef crystal type salts and dont change your other dosing methods you may run into problems. Quote : Enriched Reef Crystals Reef Salt is formulated especially for reef aquariums. Contains extra calcium, select trace elements, and vitamins above natural seawater concentrations. These extra measures reduce the need for constant supplements and additives to replenish essential substances quickly depleted in thriving reef aquariums. Reef CrystalsÃ‚Â® also contains special additives to help detoxify excess heavy metals such as copper and is fully compatible with all marine aquariums. End Quote. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/19/2006, 10:53 AM	#12
TimmyB Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alexandria VA Posts: 41	I use RO\DI water in my setup. So not sure why my calcium levels would be so high. IO does not boast added calcium to my knowledge, like RC does. Will look into a salt mix for RO\DI water... but right now need to worry about getting my levels back to normal.

05/19/2006, 11:00 AM	#13
impur Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 4,262	I kept seeing how so many nice reefs are using IO so i bought a bag. I mixed it up to 1.025 SG and tested it. Calcium was 240-260ppm and alk was around 3dkh. I threw it in the garbage. Thats interesting yours had such high calcium. I guess it just goes to show the inconsistancy from bag to bag of this stuff. __________________ Great spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds. Current Tank Info: 75gal, 20gal sump, 6-54w T5 TEK

05/19/2006, 12:04 PM	#14
mg426 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: maryland Posts: 6,923	I got 425 ca. from my last bucket. Iallways measure the first batch I mix from a new bucket. I will be keeping a close eye on it from now on though. __________________ I found a way to make a small fortune running a reef tank. Start with a large fortune. Unofficial President of the SEACLONE haters club Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef 110 lbs LR, 1x250watt XM 20K MH 2x175watt XM 20K MH on Magetics 2X96 watt actinic PC, 220 watt VHO actinic, 30 gallon refugium, closed loop system powered by Sequence Dart MSX 200 skimmer 38 gallon sump, Oceansmotions squirt

05/19/2006, 12:20 PM	#15
reefcapnnick Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 79	Well this is is disheartening.. what kind of mix do you guys recommend for RO/DI water?

05/19/2006, 12:51 PM	#16
duec22 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sacramento Posts: 2,187	Salinity can have a big effect on these values. I've been useing IO from the start. I had started to notice that when I mixed it up and tested it I was getting Ca at about 420, alk at about 12, and Mg somewhere around 1500. It was not the salt's fault, it was mine for useing a hydrometer instead of a refracometer. Which makes me suspicous of reports like this....was makeup water checked with a refracometer and at what salinity was it made up to. __________________ -David

05/19/2006, 02:07 PM	#17
impur Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 4,262	I use a refractometer. __________________ Great spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds. Current Tank Info: 75gal, 20gal sump, 6-54w T5 TEK

05/19/2006, 03:04 PM	#18
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	I dont know. IO has been a mainstay in the marine hobby for a long time. 900 calcium in a tank and no precipatation event? Mmmmm. This testing at the fish store. Bad salt in what way? High levels low levels? What was the calcium level in the water used to make the seawater before the salt was added? Many questions to ask and facts to double check before you throw your instant ocean salt away. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/19/2006, 05:04 PM	#20
Shroom King Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Midcoast Maine Posts: 133	Very interesting. I've never checked calcium on freshly mixed SW when doing a water change, just the salinity. Never thought it was really an issue, and I've always used IO. If my levels were ever out of wack, I just figured I'd done something stupid myself...again. Guess I'll check from now on. Makes sense to know what you're putting in... __________________ Cool Breezes... Joel Current Tank Info: 50G Cube, Mixed Reef

05/19/2006, 05:46 PM	#21
mattseattle Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: seattle Posts: 1,332	I just checked my IO and levels are the same as they have been for years. Calcium was 350. I just bought this 160 gallon tub about 2 weeks ago.

05/19/2006, 05:51 PM	#22
Ursus Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 480	Seems like every salt has had a bad batch here and there. Rather disturbing.

05/19/2006, 05:53 PM	#23
Sullivmw Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cumming, GA Posts: 370	Are you certain on the 700-900 on the CA ? I am not trying to question the validity, but want to make sure you do not have a test kit error, or something to that effect. The reason I am asking, I do not see how it would be possible for it not to precipitate out, unless the ALK was off the chart low ?

05/20/2006, 05:53 PM	#24
Red_Six Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 174	I just mixed 30 gallons of IO. Salinity 1.025 Calcium 330 ppm Magnesium 945 ppm

05/20/2006, 06:32 PM	#25
Weatherman Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 1,619	New 14-gallon batch (I always tweak it with around 7 1/2 ml of CaCL): Specific gravity: 1.0255 Calcium: 430 ppm Alk: 12 dKH Very typical numbers for IO.