Newbie problems setting up tank with live sand.

[jbrunken]

Hello all,

I’m extremely new to the hobby and I’m trying to get my first saltwater tank up and running and I’m having a few issues…

I recently purchased a 125G tank with a wet/dry filter, skimmer, wavemaker and orbit lighting. In addition to this, the tank came with a tote full of “live sand� which was still slightly wet and a box full of what I would call “formerly live� rock (it had obviously been out of the water too long).

I got the tank filled up with saltwater and everything was setup and running great, but this is where my newbie problems started.

First off, after a day of having saltwater in the tank, a thin (but very persistent) film of what appears to be salt formed on the entire inside of the aquarium. I have a feeling this may be normal for a new tank, but I’m not sure.

Now, here is the real problem I have. When I opened up the live sand, there was a terrible rancid smell and as I began to scoop it out of the tote, I realized that there was a fairly large piece of “live rock� in the middle of the sand that appeared to be emitting black smelly water (so I think this was a major contributor to the smell).

So… I rinsed out all of the sand (for quite a while) with fresh water and put it in the tank. The next day, when I got home from work, my entire house stank and I quickly traced the smell to the aquarium.

I called the LFS and they said that if it really smelled that bad, I should probably do a complete water change. So last night I drained the tank (which worked out good actually because I wasn’t happy with where I placed it). I also rinsed the sand again (and got out as many of large the coral/rock fragments as I could thinking that they might be part of the problem).

I ended up putting all of the sand into a large (new) plastic garbage can, added some saltwater to it and have a powerhead circulating the water. This morning I noticed that the water in the garbage can still stinks (but not as much as the aquarium did yesterday).

At this point I have an empty aquarium and a garbage can full of questionable sand. What do I need to do in order to get back on the right track to establishing a proper saltwater tank?

Thanks in advance!

Jason

[rekn]

i think your sand is just old. if its live sand then theres stuff living in it, this stuff has a shelf life...check the bag and see if theres an expiration date on it

[jbrunken]

I didn't buy the sand (not new at least). The previous owner of the setup that I bought was using it in the aquarium. I believe the issue is (at least partially) that it sat out of the aquarium for too long.

At this point I just need to know if this sand is even usable anymore. I hope so because it looks nice and I can't really afford to replace it right now.

Thanks!

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Jason and Rekn

To Reef Central

Well Jason, you're making all the right moves. Getting the sand out of the tank and placing it in a curing container was a good thing, as Martha Stewart would say.

If is hard to tell at this point how much dieoff occurred with the sand but I imagine it is only slightly better in shape than the LR you already gave last rites to. Leave it sit a couple more days, with a powerhead or air pump will help, then check ammonia, nitrate and nitrate levels. If the ammonia is high do another complete water change and repeat the process until ammonia and nitrite are zero. Nitrate may run high but this is OK.

At that point you will probably have semi-live sand but that is fine. Use that LR as base rock and purchase some active LS and additional LR. Place those in the tank to seed the sand and baserock. Overall you will still save some bucks with this method or reusing the current rock and sand. For more info see-The New Tank Thread

[p0rkch0p]

JB, take this for what its worth (I am really new to this as well) but I saw in your post you rinsed the sand completely with fresh water. One of the things the guys at my LFS said was make sure you mix the saltwater up first, and dont just dump fresh water on the sand, the freshwater will kill the sand as soon as it hits it. I hope thats not the case (for you) and this is just hearsay on my part, but I thought I would put that up. I cured my tank/sand/water/rock all at the same time, there were a few days when it smelled a little funky, but nothing like you described.

[TekCat]

IMO, if you rinsed your LS with frish water, then all saltwater bacteria that was there is pretty much dead. Besides, if it was old sand, you'd be better off getting new/clean dead sand. And then add a cup of sand from existing tank to seed it. For bio-diversity get as many cups from different tanks as you can get your hands on. (fellow reefers in your area and LFS are your primary sources)

good luck.

[jbrunken]

Thanks everyone for the very informative replies.

At this point it sounds like between the sand sitting out too long and all of my newbie mistakes, I have a whole lot of dead sand.

So, given my current budget constraints, here is my plan.

1) Continue to let the formerly live sand cure in a seperate container doing periodic saltwater water changes.

2) Fill my tank about 80% full with new RO water and get the salt salinity right.

3) Once the now dead sand is clean, I'll re-add it to the tank. I'm not sure how long I should expect this step to take...

4) Once the sand is back in the tank, make sure the water parameters are good and stable.

5) Re-seed the sand with new sand (from other local tanks if I can find any donors) and some good live rock.

I'll probably also throw the formerly live rock that I have in another container and let it cure as well.

Does this sound like the right approach to getting back on track?

Thanks again for all of the great input.

-Jason

[TekCat]

sounds like a plan

if you really want to "clean" your sand, then boil it in fresh water first, then rinse it few more times, then put it in salt water and let it cure.

You could do this to your dead rock too.

[jbrunken]

Hmmm.... Now I have to figure out a way to boil 100lb of sand without sending my wife through the roof.

Any thoughts on how long should I expect the cure process to take if I do this?



-Jason

[techreef]

i'd say if there's not already a hole in the roof from when you turned the place into a rancid cave, you're safe! The picture of a stove covered w/ pots of boiling sand water is awesome though!

[WaterKeeper]

Sounds good to me Jason.

Considering aragonite sand is hard to come by these days or cost and arm and a leg to purchase you are justified in saving the stuff you have. Use an ammonia test on both the rock and sand. If after a week it is down to zero the cure process will be pretty much complete.

Man `O man, first we were cooking rock and now it's boiling sand.

[jbrunken]

heh, I think I've just found a new use for a propane powered Turkey Fryer.

[WaterKeeper]

[jbrunken]

Ok, after reading through the new tank thread, it seems that I can replace the dead sand I have for cheaper then I thought by simply going to Home Depot. The sand that I have now is fairly "coarse" so getting something a bit more fine might be better.

Is the sand that you get from Home Depot (I forget the name) really aquarium safe?

-JB

[jbrunken]

Another quick question... For seeding dead sand, how does a product like "Agri-Alive Fiji Pink" compare to "Live Sand"

For example, Fosters & Smith sell both, but the "Live Sand" is considerably more expensive, yet the agri alive claims the same benefit.

Does the "Live Sand" have a more diverse range of critters?

-JB

[Amy83820]

If it is really 'live sand', it will be sold in a bag with water in it. Dry sand is always dead.
I want to see you explaining to the firemen (and wife) how a turkey fryer and sand set your house on fire (and why it smells so bad)!

[jbrunken]

The Agri-Alive product that I mentioned does come in a bag packed with water and I believe that it is described as "Bio-active".

I'm just trying to figure out if there is really a difference between the products or if one is just way more expensive because it's called "Live Sand".

And I have aquired the turkey fryer, so I guess we'll see what happens.

-JB

[TekCat]

Aeeee... What's cooking Doc?

As far as "bagged" LS goes, usually (as previously stated) it has water in the bag also. It is quite questionable what that LS has, because everything (expecially live organizms) have its shelf live span. You really don't know how long the bag of sand had been at the warehouse.
Besides, "bagged" LS have only bacteria to beginwith, no critters that you could see with naked eye. If you're going to put LR, then it has all the bacteria needed to seed any dead sand. As for critters, get sand from existing tanks (check your local reef club, I bet there will be quite a few of ppl that would give you a cup of their sand for free; or ask LFS for their sand).

-- edit --

if you still want to use "bagged" LS, I've got aragalive (sp?) and was pretty much happy with it.

for critters, check out: http://www.inlandaquatics.com/prod/prod_detrit.html
and my favorite:
http://www.ipsf.com/

[jbrunken]

Ok I think I'm starting to get a handle on all of this now Thanks for the help!

-JB

[meco65]

If it was me I would take the out and rince it till it dose not smell bad and you will have clean sand it will not be live but it will not stink eather. Than seed the new sand. The rock may be Salvageable if cured long enuff unless it dryed all the way out.

[WaterKeeper]

Those worms and other sand stirring critters, that TekCat mentions, are important as they move the bed and keep it from going stagnant. You always want to seed any bed with some true live sand, as much as you can afford. Unfortunately, the Home Despot sand, Southdown or New Castle, is just about impossible to find these days. If you can get fine aragonite great but lately many have needed to bite the bullet and use fine silica sand. Mixing it with some aragonite is still a good idea as it provides some buffering in the bed.