brown algae on sand.....

Nabob89 · 05/24/2006, 08:13 PM

how do I get rid of it? Also, the LR is getting a brownish algae on it, so is there a type of snail that will cover the LR and sand? thanks
Matt

Sk8r · 05/24/2006, 08:35 PM

This is probably cyanobacteria, which is not really an algae, and not much eats it. The usual less-drastic fixes are hyping the flow for all its worth, eliminating dead spots, checking if you're overfeeding, and doing all the things you usually do to get the dead spots eliminated. If it really is cyano, chemi-clean can knock it, but what you describe is a very minor outbreak, and chemi-clean is really hard on a tank---it tends to knock back all bacteria, and you're you're 2 years in the hobby, so you know what that means: ALL filtration is compromised. So try to fix it short of that if at all possible. Getting some bristleworms ( if you can keep your fish from eating them) might help---all the big-time detrivores that can solve the too-much-food problem.

Avi · 05/24/2006, 08:44 PM

I would think that it's more likely to be diatoms than cyano. Diatoms are a common thing in marine aquariums and more often than not, comes and then goes. The feed on silicates in the tank that most often is present in the tank because of the sand that's in the tank. But to address it, like sk8r says, increase the flow in the tank. If you really have no patience for it you could put a phosphate reactor

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=TL4311

on the tank and put Rowaphos or some other good quality medium that removes silicates as well as phosphates.

You might also want to consider a conch...maybe a fighting conch....for sand cleaning. A Diamond Goby is also something that will work well on that.

Sk8r · 05/24/2006, 09:01 PM

Mmm, not thread-piracy here, but fmi, Rowaphos, eh? and it knocks silicates? That one's going in the files.

You make a good point re diatoms.

And fighting conches. They're great at sand-cleaning. I have 2. People complain because they disappear and can't be found---one of mine does, but she's at work 24/7 down under the surface, and you can't ask better than that. If you have fish that will let them alone, they're great. And a big diamond goby might hold its own, also an engineer goby, if the rockwork can hold up against it.

Nabob89 · 05/24/2006, 10:54 PM

this tank has only been established for 3 weeks......i had a FO setup for 2 years, then broke it down to setup for a reef....the LR and sand is in the tank, and the cycle is done....so i assume its just an early diatom outbreak? I have three MJ900's in the tank,so i think flow is good, though they are all pointed diagonally upward......should I change this.....also, are nassarius snails any good at getting rid of diatoms....or is it just the fighting conch that i should get? thanks
Matt

Sk8r · 05/24/2006, 11:04 PM

Nassarius are undertakers---good at removing the dead. The conchs are better at subsurface detritus, imho: I have some huge nassarius, and they're a good precaution, but mostly they erupt out of the sand to steal pellets. The conchs just keep doing what they do. You might try changing direction of flow at least on one or two. I use a sea swirl in my wedge tank, and am happy with the effect, though I have one miffed coral.

AmatureReefer · 05/24/2006, 11:56 PM

So what you guys are saying for an early tank outbreak of algea get a goby and a fighting conch or how about crabs and cleaner shrimp and turbo snails for the sides of the tank?

JUST WONDERING CAUSE I AM GETTING A CLEAN UP CREW TOM FOR A 55 GAL REEF WITH A 3 1/2 SAnd base, and 70 pounds live rock what would you guys get from a lfs?

Avi · 05/25/2006, 02:16 PM

Nabob, if you want to improve the quality of the flow of the MJs in your tank, put Hydor flow deflectors on them:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1

They are a bit obtrusive but overall, they're inexpensive and very reliable and create a flow that's much more ideal than the MJs on their own. I have two going on MJ1200s on my reef and I'm very satisfied with them. I would, however, consider adding some more flow to your tank. I found that the more flow, if it's the right kind of flow, the better. For your tank, I'd consider adding a Seio 620 or even an 820 to the three MJs you have on it now.

Adding to the flow may well hasten the end of the diatom outbreak that you have. I agree with sk8r about the snails and conches. But from my own experience, the Diamond Goby is most effective.

AmateurReefer....the shrimp won't do a thing to clean algae off the sides of the tank. By "cleaner" it means that these shrimp eat pathogens like parasites off of fish. The don't clean the tank.

Also, when you talk about "algae" outbreaks...there are different kinds outbreaks like micro-algae, cyanobacteria and the diatoms that we're talking about here. Not all are actually algae but for the most part certain measures will address them all to one extent or another like increased water flow, while others like the diatoms need light and silicates as opposed to the light and nitrates or phosphates that the others thrive on.

mike89t · 05/25/2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AmatureReefer
So what you guys are saying for an early tank outbreak of algea get a goby and a fighting conch or how about crabs and cleaner shrimp and turbo snails for the sides of the tank?

JUST WONDERING CAUSE I AM GETTING A CLEAN UP CREW TOM FOR A 55 GAL REEF WITH A 3 1/2 SAnd base, and 70 pounds live rock what would you guys get from a lfs?

Sounds like diatoms to me. My tank was covered with them the first month after it cycled. It went away after a month an the hair algae phase started. That went away and then the Cyano phase started. These are all just typical phases many people see when their tank is very young.

Here is a thread I put together on the cleaner crew I selected for my tank and what each cleaner is best at:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=748495

Hope that helps!

ghostrida3 · 05/25/2006, 04:47 PM

The main thing is making sure you do your water changes and get your water parameters right, I have a huge cleanup crew 275 snails and 100 hermit crabs, plus lawnmower blenny, i got lazy on the water changes and had a bad out break. once i got water back under control and used kalwasser to reduce phosphate and water changes, everything started to clear up. BAsically the biggest thing to keeping your tank clean is just keeping the water as close to natural seawater as possbilbe imo.without doing that it doesnt matter what kind of cleanup crew you have. But your tank is new so this is all right on schedule.

p0rkch0p · 05/25/2006, 08:12 PM

Are there any pictures of any of these so I can compare? I have had my tank up about 7-8 weeks, just added a single fish and cleaner shrimp less than a week ago, and I have been fairly careful on feeding ( I am sure there is some extra, the tang took a little while but is now eating well, and ich spots are gone). I have about 14 turbo snails, same for scarlet hermits, and a couple of Emerald crabs. About half my tank sand floor is covered with a fine layer of rust colored powder, as is some of the LR, mostly the high spots that get the light. Additionally, its growing on the glass too, I think its the same (color looks the same). I have been toying with the idea of vacuuming it all out (as much as I can get at least), but I want to find out what it is first if possible. One other wierd thing, I have lost about 3 of the snails over the past two days, not sure why. The other critters all seem fine, and water quality is good except for Nitrates are on the high side. I am doing small water changes every day or so to keep the nitrates down. Any ideas? I could probably try to figure out how to post pics myself as well....

Nabob89 · 05/25/2006, 10:12 PM

porkchop, I have the same conditions....but sorry, still in the process of getting a decent camera.....I too have the layer of brown "powder" on my sand, the two pieces of LR closest to the light, on the tops of the powerheads, and now growing in one small patch on the side of the tank.....from what everyone else is saying, sounds like a diatom outbreak. I'm going to do a water change this weekend, then maybe get a sand sifter and a few more snails.....i'll let you know if i have any success.

p0rkch0p · 05/25/2006, 11:07 PM

Nabob, I am about 95% sure mine is diatoms. Check out this link, it has some pics they id as diatoms. The treatment opinions vary, some say it will dissipate on its own. I am going to vacuum out what I can and do a small (~5%) water change, maybe cut back on the lights since I am going to be away this weekend anyway. Good luck!

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...errerid=112003

05/24/2006, 08:13 PM	#1
Nabob89 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston Posts: 477	brown algae on sand..... how do I get rid of it? Also, the LR is getting a brownish algae on it, so is there a type of snail that will cover the LR and sand? thanks Matt

05/24/2006, 08:35 PM	#2
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	This is probably cyanobacteria, which is not really an algae, and not much eats it. The usual less-drastic fixes are hyping the flow for all its worth, eliminating dead spots, checking if you're overfeeding, and doing all the things you usually do to get the dead spots eliminated. If it really is cyano, chemi-clean can knock it, but what you describe is a very minor outbreak, and chemi-clean is really hard on a tank---it tends to knock back all bacteria, and you're you're 2 years in the hobby, so you know what that means: ALL filtration is compromised. So try to fix it short of that if at all possible. Getting some bristleworms ( if you can keep your fish from eating them) might help---all the big-time detrivores that can solve the too-much-food problem. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/24/2006, 08:44 PM	#3
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	I would think that it's more likely to be diatoms than cyano. Diatoms are a common thing in marine aquariums and more often than not, comes and then goes. The feed on silicates in the tank that most often is present in the tank because of the sand that's in the tank. But to address it, like sk8r says, increase the flow in the tank. If you really have no patience for it you could put a phosphate reactor http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=TL4311 on the tank and put Rowaphos or some other good quality medium that removes silicates as well as phosphates. You might also want to consider a conch...maybe a fighting conch....for sand cleaning. A Diamond Goby is also something that will work well on that. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

05/24/2006, 09:01 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Mmm, not thread-piracy here, but fmi, Rowaphos, eh? and it knocks silicates? That one's going in the files. You make a good point re diatoms. And fighting conches. They're great at sand-cleaning. I have 2. People complain because they disappear and can't be found---one of mine does, but she's at work 24/7 down under the surface, and you can't ask better than that. If you have fish that will let them alone, they're great. And a big diamond goby might hold its own, also an engineer goby, if the rockwork can hold up against it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/24/2006, 11:04 PM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Nassarius are undertakers---good at removing the dead. The conchs are better at subsurface detritus, imho: I have some huge nassarius, and they're a good precaution, but mostly they erupt out of the sand to steal pellets. The conchs just keep doing what they do. You might try changing direction of flow at least on one or two. I use a sea swirl in my wedge tank, and am happy with the effect, though I have one miffed coral. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/24/2006, 10:54 PM	#5
Nabob89 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston Posts: 477	this tank has only been established for 3 weeks......i had a FO setup for 2 years, then broke it down to setup for a reef....the LR and sand is in the tank, and the cycle is done....so i assume its just an early diatom outbreak? I have three MJ900's in the tank,so i think flow is good, though they are all pointed diagonally upward......should I change this.....also, are nassarius snails any good at getting rid of diatoms....or is it just the fighting conch that i should get? thanks Matt

05/24/2006, 11:56 PM	#7
AmatureReefer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chino Hills Posts: 70	So what you guys are saying for an early tank outbreak of algea get a goby and a fighting conch or how about crabs and cleaner shrimp and turbo snails for the sides of the tank? JUST WONDERING CAUSE I AM GETTING A CLEAN UP CREW TOM FOR A 55 GAL REEF WITH A 3 1/2 SAnd base, and 70 pounds live rock what would you guys get from a lfs? __________________ You can always learn more! Current Tank Info: 55 Gal Acrylics, Oack Base and Canappy

05/25/2006, 02:16 PM	#8
Avi Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 7,327	Nabob, if you want to improve the quality of the flow of the MJs in your tank, put Hydor flow deflectors on them: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1 They are a bit obtrusive but overall, they're inexpensive and very reliable and create a flow that's much more ideal than the MJs on their own. I have two going on MJ1200s on my reef and I'm very satisfied with them. I would, however, consider adding some more flow to your tank. I found that the more flow, if it's the right kind of flow, the better. For your tank, I'd consider adding a Seio 620 or even an 820 to the three MJs you have on it now. Adding to the flow may well hasten the end of the diatom outbreak that you have. I agree with sk8r about the snails and conches. But from my own experience, the Diamond Goby is most effective. AmateurReefer....the shrimp won't do a thing to clean algae off the sides of the tank. By "cleaner" it means that these shrimp eat pathogens like parasites off of fish. The don't clean the tank. Also, when you talk about "algae" outbreaks...there are different kinds outbreaks like micro-algae, cyanobacteria and the diatoms that we're talking about here. Not all are actually algae but for the most part certain measures will address them all to one extent or another like increased water flow, while others like the diatoms need light and silicates as opposed to the light and nitrates or phosphates that the others thrive on. __________________ I'd keep the whole ocean if my den were big enough Current Tank Info: 120 gallon reef with 210 lbs. of live rock, Aqua-C EV180 Skimmer, Aquactinic double 250W MH with blue plus t5 support; 58 gallon freshwater planted tank using CO2 and T5s; 30-gallon cube with a few fancy goldfish; and a 110 gallon FOWLR

05/25/2006, 04:47 PM	#10
ghostrida3 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: marietta, ga Posts: 477	The main thing is making sure you do your water changes and get your water parameters right, I have a huge cleanup crew 275 snails and 100 hermit crabs, plus lawnmower blenny, i got lazy on the water changes and had a bad out break. once i got water back under control and used kalwasser to reduce phosphate and water changes, everything started to clear up. BAsically the biggest thing to keeping your tank clean is just keeping the water as close to natural seawater as possbilbe imo.without doing that it doesnt matter what kind of cleanup crew you have. But your tank is new so this is all right on schedule.

05/25/2006, 08:12 PM	#11
p0rkch0p Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Northern California Posts: 30	Are there any pictures of any of these so I can compare? I have had my tank up about 7-8 weeks, just added a single fish and cleaner shrimp less than a week ago, and I have been fairly careful on feeding ( I am sure there is some extra, the tang took a little while but is now eating well, and ich spots are gone). I have about 14 turbo snails, same for scarlet hermits, and a couple of Emerald crabs. About half my tank sand floor is covered with a fine layer of rust colored powder, as is some of the LR, mostly the high spots that get the light. Additionally, its growing on the glass too, I think its the same (color looks the same). I have been toying with the idea of vacuuming it all out (as much as I can get at least), but I want to find out what it is first if possible. One other wierd thing, I have lost about 3 of the snails over the past two days, not sure why. The other critters all seem fine, and water quality is good except for Nitrates are on the high side. I am doing small water changes every day or so to keep the nitrates down. Any ideas? I could probably try to figure out how to post pics myself as well....

05/25/2006, 10:12 PM	#12
Nabob89 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Boston Posts: 477	porkchop, I have the same conditions....but sorry, still in the process of getting a decent camera.....I too have the layer of brown "powder" on my sand, the two pieces of LR closest to the light, on the tops of the powerheads, and now growing in one small patch on the side of the tank.....from what everyone else is saying, sounds like a diatom outbreak. I'm going to do a water change this weekend, then maybe get a sand sifter and a few more snails.....i'll let you know if i have any success.

05/25/2006, 11:07 PM	#13
p0rkch0p Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Northern California Posts: 30	Nabob, I am about 95% sure mine is diatoms. Check out this link, it has some pics they id as diatoms. The treatment opinions vary, some say it will dissipate on its own. I am going to vacuum out what I can and do a small (~5%) water change, maybe cut back on the lights since I am going to be away this weekend anyway. Good luck! http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...errerid=112003