cured rock has been cooking for 4 months now.. still have nitrates?

roper512 · 05/28/2006, 09:56 PM

Hey all, I've been cooking some premiumaquatics MI live rock (was bought 'cured') for about 4 months now.. Nitrates were actually quite high awhile ago, until I removed all the rock, skimmer and powerheads, gave everything a good cleaning and replaced the water.. (there was a good 1 inch thick layer of detrius on the bottom of the brute!!)

After giving all the rocks a good dunk/swish in 5 gallon buckets (again, another 1/2 inch thick layer of brown detrius coated the bottom of these buckets) I placed them all back in the brute which had been rinsed out. I realize now maybe I should have purchased a second clean brute to put the rocks in as there sitll could be nitrate producing residues on the original one.. Anyways..

My nitrates now seem ot be around 2.5-5 range which is wayy better than it was however I find this odd considering the rock was purchased 'cured' and has been cooking for 4 months or so now.. I would think nitrates should be undetectable at this point? Considering I have nothing more than live rock, tunze powerhead and deltec skimmer in there.. Obviously I'm not feeding anything.. Anyone have any ideas? I plan on making sure there are 0 nitrates before I do end up putting thesse rocks in my aquarium.

I was skeptical about cooking rock.. I am amazed however by how much detrius continues to shed from these rocks though.. I am not kidding when I say it was like a thick brown sludge on the bottom of my brute and continues to come off even now, although not as much.. To think all that would have ended up in my sandbed!

Thanks for any advice!

boxfishpooalot · 05/29/2006, 04:28 AM

Well if you still have nitrates that means there is still organics that are being oxidized by aerobic bacteria in the water. That equals nitrates. Some live rock is collected in muddy mangrove swamps, wich are pressure sprayed then sent to you. So you can have lots of organic materials in there.

Some people have cooked rock for 9 months. Although, if your using a sand bed, I think that those nitrates are unimportant. Fwiw I think that those rocks will get dirty again anyways unless you maintain a bare bottom tank. But even in that aquarium the rock will build up ditritus over time.

Nitroq2 · 05/29/2006, 07:34 AM

Are you sure the test kit isn't producing false positives?

RobinsonFam1 · 05/29/2006, 08:27 AM

all live rock has die off, there is no way around it with shipping and handling. temp swings, lack of water etc.....
increase the water flow to crazy high numbers and skim wet with a good skimmer, dont try to use a seaclone..........

roper512 · 05/29/2006, 10:25 AM

I understand rock has dieoff.. But what I'm trying to say is that I've done numerous cleanings of the rock (scrubbed and picking off dead stuff), done water changes, cleaned out the holding tank. I have a tunze 6000 in there along with an MJ1200 and a deltec MCE600 skimmer.. And I figured that just being ROCK in there, nothing else, no feeding, no stuff that I've added to it, there shouldn't be nitrates?

Unless I'm missing something? Because it seems weird that peoples tanks would have 0 nitrates with tons of fish, corals, rock, sand whereas I just have rock in a tub for months and still have detectable nitrates..

Or is the reason I'm still getting detectable nitrates BECAUSE all there is is rock in there? No cleanup crew or anything to get rid of some of the crud on the rock and such?

Thanks for explinations.. After years of research I still feel like a total newbie

Oh also, I'm using a salifert test kit to test for nitrates. It could very well be it's giving false positives. I will have to clean the syringe and vial with clean RO/DI water and I'll give it another test today and see..

Nitroq2 · 05/29/2006, 10:54 AM

Some corals seem to reduce the nitrates as well as some macro algae. I know that putting xenia in a 10 gallon tank reading 15 or so on the nitrates and it took it down to undetectable rather quickly for me. Then in my other 10 the addition of Chaeto via a HOB filter converted to a fuge seemed to lower it a quickly as well. Currently I have a 90 gallon that cycled with a couple of weeks and within a couple of months is now with <1 nitrates and I imagine that will go away with the addition of the macros in the fuge. I have the compartment just haven't had time to transfer the sand and chaeto from my other tank. So I guess to answer your question is yes some of those things you listed can help the problem. And IMHO I don't think nitrates under 10 will hurt anything in the tank anyway. And if anyone wants to argue that tell me what YOU (not what you heard or read) personally have lost due to those nitrates. I personally have had them as high as 30 with no ill effects on my corals, fish, or inverts. I guess I am saying forget trying to get the nitrates to 0 and move along with enjoying your new reef and it should work itself out over time with the proper additions to the tank.

roper512 · 05/29/2006, 12:16 PM

Understood, and a good way at looking at it

I'm just kind of a perfectionist when it comes to my hobbies.. Unfortunately it makes it very difficult to continue without having things done a certain way... I actually postponed even buying anything for my tank because I couldn't set it up the way I thought it would be "perfect".. Eventually though I said ah whatever and did it anyways. I will probably do the same with the rock. I am doing one last thing and then whatever the nitrates are after this I'm being fine with it:

Going to fill five 5 gallon buckets with fresh RO/DI, take all the rock out of the brute (give them good dunk/swishes before taking them out and blast from tunze powerhead), lay them down on paper towels, empty out the brute and give it a good rinse/scrub. Fill the brute back up with all the RO/DI from the 5 gallon buckets and add salt/powerhead/heaters. While that's mixing and heating I will examine each rock carefully for any last dead bits or rubble I can remove from the cracks/crevices of the rock. Once the water in the brute is circulated and heated I'll pop all the rock back in, give it a day or two and test nitrates again.

Like I said though whatever the outcome is this is the last time.. It wil have been 5 months or so of cooking and cleaning and I'm getting anxious!

Quote:

Originally posted by Nitroq2
Some corals seem to reduce the nitrates as well as some macro algae. I know that putting xenia in a 10 gallon tank reading 15 or so on the nitrates and it took it down to undetectable rather quickly for me. Then in my other 10 the addition of Chaeto via a HOB filter converted to a fuge seemed to lower it a quickly as well. Currently I have a 90 gallon that cycled with a couple of weeks and within a couple of months is now with <1 nitrates and I imagine that will go away with the addition of the macros in the fuge. I have the compartment just haven't had time to transfer the sand and chaeto from my other tank. So I guess to answer your question is yes some of those things you listed can help the problem. And IMHO I don't think nitrates under 10 will hurt anything in the tank anyway. And if anyone wants to argue that tell me what YOU (not what you heard or read) personally have lost due to those nitrates. I personally have had them as high as 30 with no ill effects on my corals, fish, or inverts. I guess I am saying forget trying to get the nitrates to 0 and move along with enjoying your new reef and it should work itself out over time with the proper additions to the tank.

omni2226 · 05/29/2006, 12:33 PM

Ok half baked theory here.
If the rock had a lot of life in it wouldnt it take a while for it to all die out?
Pods, worms and micro stars can burrow deep into rocks.
Ok so now pods are dying, a micro star scarfs it up, expels some waste, a worm scrafs that up, expels waste, another pod scarfs that up.
One big circle of whatever bugs and worms are in the rock, slowly consuming each other. May take a while to have no nitrogen cycle to speak of when dealing with large quanitys of rock that had a healthy population of critters in the beginning.

roper512 · 05/29/2006, 01:35 PM

Yeah.. I would actually totally agree with that 100% if I had gotton this rock uncured, but honestly when I got this rock 4 months ago it was already "cured".. It didn't look like uncured rock which has lots of color and life all over it... I'm sure there was still plenty in the cracks and crevices of the rock as I remmeber seeing a snail or two crawling on the side of the brute, but since then I haven't seen anything. Maybe there's a good amount of life in there just hiding and waiting it out.

Quote:

Originally posted by omni2226
Ok half baked theory here.
If the rock had a lot of life in it wouldnt it take a while for it to all die out?
Pods, worms and micro stars can burrow deep into rocks.
Ok so now pods are dying, a micro star scarfs it up, expels some waste, a worm scrafs that up, expels waste, another pod scarfs that up.
One big circle of whatever bugs and worms are in the rock, slowly consuming each other. May take a while to have no nitrogen cycle to speak of when dealing with large quanitys of rock that had a healthy population of critters in the beginning.

05/28/2006, 09:56 PM	#1
roper512 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Detroit suburbs Posts: 393	cured rock has been cooking for 4 months now.. still have nitrates? Hey all, I've been cooking some premiumaquatics MI live rock (was bought 'cured') for about 4 months now.. Nitrates were actually quite high awhile ago, until I removed all the rock, skimmer and powerheads, gave everything a good cleaning and replaced the water.. (there was a good 1 inch thick layer of detrius on the bottom of the brute!!) After giving all the rocks a good dunk/swish in 5 gallon buckets (again, another 1/2 inch thick layer of brown detrius coated the bottom of these buckets) I placed them all back in the brute which had been rinsed out. I realize now maybe I should have purchased a second clean brute to put the rocks in as there sitll could be nitrate producing residues on the original one.. Anyways.. My nitrates now seem ot be around 2.5-5 range which is wayy better than it was however I find this odd considering the rock was purchased 'cured' and has been cooking for 4 months or so now.. I would think nitrates should be undetectable at this point? Considering I have nothing more than live rock, tunze powerhead and deltec skimmer in there.. Obviously I'm not feeding anything.. Anyone have any ideas? I plan on making sure there are 0 nitrates before I do end up putting thesse rocks in my aquarium. I was skeptical about cooking rock.. I am amazed however by how much detrius continues to shed from these rocks though.. I am not kidding when I say it was like a thick brown sludge on the bottom of my brute and continues to come off even now, although not as much.. To think all that would have ended up in my sandbed! Thanks for any advice!

05/29/2006, 04:28 AM	#2
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	Well if you still have nitrates that means there is still organics that are being oxidized by aerobic bacteria in the water. That equals nitrates. Some live rock is collected in muddy mangrove swamps, wich are pressure sprayed then sent to you. So you can have lots of organic materials in there. Some people have cooked rock for 9 months. Although, if your using a sand bed, I think that those nitrates are unimportant. Fwiw I think that those rocks will get dirty again anyways unless you maintain a bare bottom tank. But even in that aquarium the rock will build up ditritus over time. __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

05/29/2006, 07:34 AM	#3
Nitroq2 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Jasper, Alabama Posts: 840	Are you sure the test kit isn't producing false positives? __________________ - Allen Current Tank Info: 90g Reef

05/29/2006, 10:54 AM	#6
Nitroq2 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Jasper, Alabama Posts: 840	Some corals seem to reduce the nitrates as well as some macro algae. I know that putting xenia in a 10 gallon tank reading 15 or so on the nitrates and it took it down to undetectable rather quickly for me. Then in my other 10 the addition of Chaeto via a HOB filter converted to a fuge seemed to lower it a quickly as well. Currently I have a 90 gallon that cycled with a couple of weeks and within a couple of months is now with <1 nitrates and I imagine that will go away with the addition of the macros in the fuge. I have the compartment just haven't had time to transfer the sand and chaeto from my other tank. So I guess to answer your question is yes some of those things you listed can help the problem. And IMHO I don't think nitrates under 10 will hurt anything in the tank anyway. And if anyone wants to argue that tell me what YOU (not what you heard or read) personally have lost due to those nitrates. I personally have had them as high as 30 with no ill effects on my corals, fish, or inverts. I guess I am saying forget trying to get the nitrates to 0 and move along with enjoying your new reef and it should work itself out over time with the proper additions to the tank. __________________ - Allen Current Tank Info: 90g Reef

05/29/2006, 12:33 PM	#8
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Ok half baked theory here. If the rock had a lot of life in it wouldnt it take a while for it to all die out? Pods, worms and micro stars can burrow deep into rocks. Ok so now pods are dying, a micro star scarfs it up, expels some waste, a worm scrafs that up, expels waste, another pod scarfs that up. One big circle of whatever bugs and worms are in the rock, slowly consuming each other. May take a while to have no nitrogen cycle to speak of when dealing with large quanitys of rock that had a healthy population of critters in the beginning. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/29/2006, 08:27 AM	#4
RobinsonFam1 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: USA Posts: 616	all live rock has die off, there is no way around it with shipping and handling. temp swings, lack of water etc..... increase the water flow to crazy high numbers and skim wet with a good skimmer, dont try to use a seaclone..........

05/29/2006, 10:25 AM	#5
roper512 Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Detroit suburbs Posts: 393	I understand rock has dieoff.. But what I'm trying to say is that I've done numerous cleanings of the rock (scrubbed and picking off dead stuff), done water changes, cleaned out the holding tank. I have a tunze 6000 in there along with an MJ1200 and a deltec MCE600 skimmer.. And I figured that just being ROCK in there, nothing else, no feeding, no stuff that I've added to it, there shouldn't be nitrates? Unless I'm missing something? Because it seems weird that peoples tanks would have 0 nitrates with tons of fish, corals, rock, sand whereas I just have rock in a tub for months and still have detectable nitrates.. Or is the reason I'm still getting detectable nitrates BECAUSE all there is is rock in there? No cleanup crew or anything to get rid of some of the crud on the rock and such? Thanks for explinations.. After years of research I still feel like a total newbie Oh also, I'm using a salifert test kit to test for nitrates. It could very well be it's giving false positives. I will have to clean the syringe and vial with clean RO/DI water and I'll give it another test today and see..