Deep Sand Beds

[roxsburyrage]

Hey guys I am getting ready to do a reef setup after getting out of it 15 yrs ago.It has changed alot since then.I had a undergravel with crushed coral which I know is not the way to go.I was wondering if I should do a Deep Sand bed in the tank.I have a 30 gallon refudge tank I am going to be using.I am going to put 6 inches of sand with some miracle Mud in it with some algae in it and some mangroves.I have a awesome skimmer for it.I am doing a 90 gallon tank.I mean I was thinking of going bare bottom like I have seen at the local LFS.I did read an Article in TFH about deep sand beds how the can help reduce Nitrates and Phosphates with lots of life in the sand.Can it be done with only a small amount of sand like two inches or would that be a bad Idea.I am going to be using southdown sand I got from Homedepot.Would you add anything to the sand like different types etc.

[hairymushroom]

The minimum depth for a DSB to be effective is 4" so, 2" isnt going to work, seeing that you've got a refugium with a DSB , you can get away with a SSB of 1"-2" in your diplay or go BB which is generally used in high flow-sps type tanks. The best types of sand IMO are fine aragonite, or you could use south down seeded with 1 or 2 cups of sand from an established reef tank.

Travis

[roxsburyrage]

If you do a deep sand bed is it true that is gets really dirty looking i a display tank.

[bertoni]

As long as the sandbed is doing well, the surface should be clean, although view of the sides of the tank isn't to everyone's taste.

[roxsburyrage]

So you would say its worth going with a deep sand bed.4 inches is the Min right.I guess the key it adding lots of worms and pods and stuff to the sand.And some crabs too.Also I heard rumors its not a good Idea to stir you sand because it can release toxins in the water is that really true if so can it really cause major harm or is it low levels.

[bertoni]

Well, I don't know about how well you'll like the DSB. No crabs or hermit crabs allowed, no stirring the sand, and finding a good grade of sand is very difficult. I like mine, but more for the interesting animals in it. It probably generates food for the tank, and does some filtration, but and inch or so of sand is probably easier to maintain and less expensive to set up.

[AZDesertRat]

I wouldn't do without my deep sand bed. Its 5" of Southdown and full of critters.

[smy168]

I keep DSBs for all my systems, my 120 and 54 are at about 6 inches and my 26Bow and 24 Pod are at 4.5. Some thoughts?

1. yeah, they don't look pretty when they get established froma display point of view.
2. it definitely provides my tank with infauna and small bacterial foods.
3. I use different grains of sand (generally smaller to larger crushed corals)
4. I also keep sand sifting stock like sand sifting star, tiger tail cukes. (indo pacific sea farms has some great critters)

There use to be a ton of debate over the uses of a DSB but I think systems are unique to the builder and it's generally a hit or miss. I run my nano systems without a skimmer and use a natural system for all my tanks, meaning I don't use any carbon or bio-balls and stuff. I use liverock and sand and dose with B-Ionic and really nothing else.

On a side note though, don't buy any of that bagged livesand, it absolutely worthless, there is no way to keep sand live in a bag on a shelf with no oxygen or temp control.

best of luck,
Steven

[AZDesertRat]

I would have to disagree on the sand sifting star. I had one for a few months and it ate every live thing there was in my sand. It took 6 months of reseeding with cups of friends sand and bottles of Oceanpods to get it back to normal. Needless to say the star is gone. I prefer detritus eaters like a fighting conch, nassarius, cerith and turbo snails and small hermits.

[smy168]

Originally posted by AZDesertRat
I would have to disagree on the sand sifting star. I had one for a few months and it ate every live thing there was in my sand.

Point well taken, I use the sand sifting star in my 120 only because of the size, they do actually go through the livestock in you sand quickly. Good point!

[chinaman4u]

Hey Rox.. I'm looking for southdown sand or Yardright for my 120G, which HD did u get your sand from, this stuff is getting hard to find. Thanks

-herman

[roxsburyrage]

I got it from a friend of mine who bought a ton of it.I dont think HD carries it any more.Someone told me that Acehardware or Truvalue might have it.

[Indermark]

is southdown specially made for saltwater tanks? does it have any buffers or anything benefical to a saltwater aquarium?

[55semireef]

What about the toxins DSB can release? The chance of crashing a tank bc of a DSB.

I have a DSB but I am converting it to a 2 inch bed. I don't want to risk losing everything I have. Its not worth it. I am thinking of getting a DSB in my sump.

[bertoni]

Southdown sand is distributed for children's sandboxes. I don't know of any sand that has any significant buffering effect.

[futrtrubl]

55semireef: Yes, disturbing a large, well extablished DSB can cause major problems.

Edward

[55semireef]

So that means you basically avoid gobies and eels with a DSB. LoL.

[bertoni]

Well, if the DSB is functioning well, disturbing it likely will reduce its filtration capacity, but I don't see how it should cause any other problems.

[pnosko]

Originally posted by 55semireef
So that means you basically avoid gobies and eels with a DSB. LoL.

Yes, when you choose a living DSB, it limits your choice of livestock to a degree.

As for the nasty looking side view, I plan to recess my tank to keep most of the bed below the viewing area.

[55semireef]

I am getting rid of my DSB. Everytime I do a water change, I am going to take a layer of sand off each time to avoid gas release and the anerobic bacteria dying off.

[pnosko]

Originally posted by 55semireef
What about the toxins DSB can release? The chance of crashing a tank bc of a DSB.

I have a DSB but I am converting it to a 2 inch bed. I don't want to risk losing everything I have. Its not worth it.

What are you basing this on? I think you are overreacting.

[55semireef]

I just don't want to risk crashing my tank. I have a Niger trigger that loves to dig. All he has to do is go down an extra inch and boom, he's dead.

I am not overreacting I just want to have a tank that can't crash.

I think DSBs are great at nitrate reduction but there are other ways of nitrate exportation that I would feel more comfortable with.

Eventually I am going to put a DSB in my sump.

[pnosko]

OK then. But the DSB itself isn't the problem. It was your chosen combination of a DSB and incompatible livestock.

And there is no such thing as a crash-proof tank.

[bertoni]

I think it's also unlikely that the niger trigger is going to die as a result of digging in the sandbed, but I suppose it's possible. In general, a DSB crash is more a slow degradation of the condition of the surface, rather than a sudden tank collapse, as far as I can tell.

[55semireef]

Originally posted by pnosko
OK then. But the DSB itself isn't the problem. It was your chosen combination of a DSB and incompatible livestock.

And there is no such thing as a crash-proof tank.

The DSB is a *potential problem*. My Niger Trigger is digging by instinct and it was my instinct to get such an awsome fish regardless of my DSB.

I didn't know much about DSBs at the time and what can happen if it was mistreated since I was just starting out. In fact, I didn't even know what a DSB was. But now, I want to get rid of it and just have a 2 inch bed which I think would benefit me more.

pnosko, of course there no such thing as a crash proof tank. But I can still attempt to make the chances of having a crash in my tank at a minimum.