why are my clowns dying?

[pufferpoison]

ok i have had my 90G setup for just under 6 months with a yellow tang, regal tang, lawnmower blenny, corals and a RBTA. The anenome is doing great, the fish have been fine. My tank's per. is perfect.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0
SG 1.025
Temp (79 night 80.7 day)
Calcium 420
Mag 1300

I use RO/DI water and have a HOB fuge with CHeato.

I bought 2 Wild Caught Clowns that one died that night, the other 2 days later. Week later LFS received Tank Breed clowns (all these are ocellaris, small) bought 2 for my 46G Bowfront and they are fine, then Bought 2 for my 90G and One is dead again, His color was faded and by the head almost looked like a white rash. Gills looked inflamed or maybe something was eating on the gills. They keep dying in my 90G tank. Perameters are always as above, the other fish don't bother them or pick on them, they just are dying. Are these hard to keep fish? i thought they were pretty hardy. I did notice that the one the just died today was swimming wierd at the bottom last night, i told my wife that it looked "different" and sure enough, dead. I can't afford to keep buying these guys at $30 a pop, just for them to die. Regal tang is only about the size of a quarter or so, Yellow tang is about 3 times that size and LM Blenny is a big one, maybe 4". ANy suggestions?

[traveller7]

Given the time of year, the quick cyclical death of the clowns, erratic swimming behavior, white "rash", inflamed gills: Brooklynella comes to mind:

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...oklynella.html

IME experience, it is not uncommon to see clowns die while the rest of the tank seems "unaffected".

If you are not in a position to treat the whole system, IMHO you'll want to remain clownless for many months, monitor the rest of your fish, and be prepared.

Clowns in general are typically very hardy once acclimated, but in my experience they are all better served by 6 week isolation in a fully cycled reef tank without any other fish. High percentages of them will need to be moved into full blown hospital environments, to the point, some of us go straight to hospitalization with certain species.

Best of luck.

[raoul]

It seems like a pain, and isn't always the most popular idea, but I'm a big believer in quarantine/observation of any new fish. After a few years of observing LFS tanks, I've seen many sick, or at least suspicious fish in stock. Understanding the life cycle of common ailments, like ich, we know that a tank has to be fishless, or maybe treated, for a minimum of 6 weeks to break the cylce (I haven't had experience with brook, but I'm assuming from the previous posts, that treatment is necessary as well).
I haven't seen any of the LFS in our area going fishless, or even having tanks that they're not selling out of.

I automatically assume the fish have been exposed to something and when they come home they go straight into a 6 week quarentine where we treat them, even if we don't notice anything.
When we first started out we lost a couple fish due to ich, luckily we didn't have a lot of money tied up in fish at the time. Now, it's a different story. I'm glad we learned the hard way when there was less to loose.

In some cases broad treatment in QT aren't an option with some fish, we just got a flame angel about a month or so back, and they're very sensitive to copper, so he was in observation for two weeks. We made sure he would take flakes, gave him time to get used to us and associate us with feedings, and watched VERY closely for any signs of disease. Luckily everything went in our favor, and he's a beautiful addition to our display tank.

[angelsj247]

where are you buying your fish.. your lfs should have guarentees for your fish. you should let them know there dying, the could refund you or give you credit.
also try another fish store.
are the fish eating when you get them? if not tell the lfs to feed them when your there so you know they eat, and ask what they are feeding them and get what they have for food.

[raoul]

Originally posted by angelsj247
where are you buying your fish.. your lfs should have guarentees for your fish. you should let them know there dying, the could refund you or give you credit.
also try another fish store.
are the fish eating when you get them? if not tell the lfs to feed them when your there so you know they eat, and ask what they are feeding them and get what they have for food.

This wasn't addressed to me, but I wanted to chime in anyway. Most, if not all of the LFS here in the KC area DO NOT offer guarantees on their SW fish because there are so many variables that could cause problems. With so many of them being wild caught instead of tank raised it's just too hard to offer anything. Maybe in other parts of the country it's different, but here, it's buyer beware. Knowing what to look for in a healthy fish and getting the best specimen you can is the responsiblity of the buyer.

Some places here will hold a fish for you for a few weeks, but you do have to put some money down on it. I'm sure it depends on the retailer, the space they have to do that, and the fish in question. But if they do this, it gives you some time to observe the fish a few times before bringing it home and may give you a chance to back out if you see a reason to.

[Sk8r]

Brooklynella is a likely cause: it's highly contagious among clownfish and is hard to spot. If you've had repeated troubles, get a 10 gallon cheap plastic tank at PetSmart and observe the fish closely for 4 weeks. I do not know the dieoff time limit for the Brook disease within the main tank if not presented a host.

[TOURKID]

Definatly quarentine. Ive noticed with other people and it was def. my experience.. that QT seems like a huge ordeal and a huge cost etc. but I learned that qt is a must like alot of other people.. when my entire reef was wiped out due to ick. and i had to wait 6-7 weeks because i had to wait for the ick to die off

after an experience like that. qt isent a big deal at all. (theres a sticky at the top of this forum that gives in great detail how to set up a qt tank)

then... you really shouldent lose any fish. you just need to teach yourself what diseases they have so u can treat for them

[pufferpoison]

OK this is unbelievable. Last night one of the clowns in my 46G tank (the two clowns are tank breed oc and have lasted fine for almost 2 weeks) was swimming at the bottom and almost sideways just a speck, kinda weird but i thought clowns were that way. Today i bought a royal gamma and it was aclimmated and is doing fine, i turn on the lights and one dead clown at the bottom and a blue leg hermit was eating at him. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE????????????? all other fish are fine, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, phosphate 0, RO/DI water Reef crystals, CSS 125 on this 46G a HOB refugium, heat is always 80.2 in this tank. It has a coral banded shrimp (small), 5 various hermit crabs, 2 dalmation molly babies (i mean like 1/4" at max- i'm a molly breeder) Firefish, Royal Gamma, ONE ocellaris clown now, one LM blenny that gets Nori daily and that's it. Tons of LR here's a pic.

P.S. i need some help here, i'm ready to get rid of the clowns (one in each tank) completely, Not one other salt water fish has died and I can't keep these alive.

[raoul]

sorry, this sounds really frustrating, I wish I could be of help to you!

[Elite]

Are you buying these clown from the same fish store? If so try another store..

[dantodd]

My guess is cross-contamination of brook from a net or something similar.

[pufferpoison]

so are my other fish going to get this brook now?

[dantodd]

As I said, it's a guess so take it with a grain of salt. I don't believe that brook is going to effect fish other than clowns. You might consider prophelactic treatment of the remaining clown. The treatment for brook is formalin and can be really really nasty stuff.

Sorry I don't have a solid answer for you.

Good luck...

[JHardman]

Originally posted by pufferpoison
so are my other fish going to get this brook now?

Brook is a parasite, and it will infest the other fish, but may not effect them to the point that they die. What it will do is ensure that the parasite continues to live in your tanks, making them unsafe for clowns.

Always QT your new fish and proactively treat for common parasites. There is a post in the FAQ on dealing with QT and clowns.

[njb2345]

All i can say is that I order about 8 different clown fish from 3 different online stores and they all die within the fist week.

They all seemed fine the fist day but right out if the bag they have a little fin rotting. So this last batach of clown i forumin 3 dipped them and it still didn't help..

So trust me i feel you pain on this one. The one batch of fish that i bought with the nemos killed everything so this time i put them by themselved in their own QT tank and they died also. So right now i have 3 QT tanks and my display tank.. not fun....

[pufferpoison]

what about a UV sterilizer? i have a turbotwist 18W that's never been used. what about running that for a week or so in each tank?

[njb2345]

I do have one running on my bigger qt tank which had 2 clowns that died and didn't really affect any of the other fish in that tank..

It can't hurt, put it that way.

Nick

[pufferpoison]

but if my system is clownless and i run a UV sterilizer that won't get rid of brook?

[njb2345]

yea it should...

[JHardman]

Originally posted by pufferpoison
but if my system is clownless and i run a UV sterilizer that won't get rid of brook?

No, it needs to fishless. If you will read up a little on brook, you will understand why.

[pufferpoison]

Originally posted by JHardman
No, it needs to fishless. If you will read up a little on brook, you will understand why.

well i've been trying to read up on it and don't seem to get a clear answer. do you have some links or something?

[pufferpoison]

hey i need some help people. why won't anybody give me some helpful info. I've read the article and it says nothing about other fish and stuff. C'mon ppl i've got fish dying and need help

[traveller7]

The article linked in my response does not specifically call out clowns as the death magnets, because Brook infects all fish.

Some fish have a higher tolerance and there is even evidence suggesting tolerant fish will build a level of immunity after repeat exposures.

Unfortunately, there is no way around the following path(s):

1. Don't add any more clowns to your tanks, they are sensitive to Brook and Amyloo.
2. If your fish do not seem to be stressed or affected in any way, are eating well, are not discolored, are not breathing heavy: Leave them alone.
3. If you fish are breathing heavy, showing a white slimy coat on the dorsal area, follow the treatment procedures in the linked article.

Regardless of the current situation: don't buy any clowns for 6+ weeks and when you do; buy some that have been conditioned(well fed and acclimated to captivity). It is unfortunate, but many of the smaller clowns available to us arrive malnourished and very susceptible to disease.

fwiw Reef Central has a Disease Treatment Forum as well and "Brook" has a sticky thread of it's own:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumd...?s=&forumid=87

[pufferpoison]

thank you very much traveller7. So it's possible to beat this disease without treating every fish and / or keeping the tank fishless for 2 months. THanks once again. i'm on my way to read that article now.

[traveller7]

Originally posted by pufferpoison
thank you very much traveller7. So it's possible to beat this disease without treating every fish and / or keeping the tank fishless for 2 months. THanks once again. i'm on my way to read that article now.

Possible, yes. Highly probable without further losses, difficult to ascertain from here. Having it cycle out on it's own is not the safest strategy, but given the time since first your first post on the subject: fish still alive, not showing symptoms, eating well, are a reasonable survival candidate.

You will need to be prepared to treat your fish at first symptoms. The problem here: is your eye attuned to spotting the symptoms early?

Make sure the fish are fed to saturation 3-5 times a day. They will need the reserves if they come down with something over the next few weeks. Increase small water change frequency as needed. If they are not eating like you expect, don't make excuses for them, they are likely sick.

Still avoid Brook and Amyloo sensitive fish for a good long time, months and months is best.

Keep in mind, Brook and Amlyoo can come back into your tank on any new and future purchases as well, not just clowns; hence a big reason to quarantine all purchases.

Best of luck.