Rock Questions

Don Lino · 06/10/2006, 09:44 AM

Has anyone ever tried using Lace rock in an Aquarium setup? Let me know please and what ere the results. Thanks so much, I'm thinking about doing this with live sand.

Don Lino · 06/10/2006, 09:45 AM

sorry, I meant *reef setup*

DJ88© · 06/10/2006, 09:47 AM

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

fsn77 · 06/10/2006, 12:51 PM

All of my base rock is lace rock. Some of the LR I got with my used set-up is lace rock, too. It seems to be doing just fine, although the tank has only been completely reassembled and running for a couple of months now. The coralline algae is growing on it very well, plus the amphipods and mysis shrimp seem to love the holes / pores in it. So far, I have no complaints.

Don Lino · 06/10/2006, 01:10 PM

Nice, can you post some pix of your tank please.

fsn77 · 06/10/2006, 06:05 PM

Sure, no problem... I checked my log -- our tank will be 2 months old tomorrow. It's not bad for 2 months, IMO.

Tank shot from 1 month ago:

Tank shot from today (sorry, ticked off the bubble coral when I cleaned the front glass):

Some lace rock close-ups (sorry, a couple are fuzzy):

Don Lino · 06/10/2006, 06:18 PM

NICE...is that ALL Lace rock? If so, how many pounds?

fsn77 · 06/10/2006, 06:28 PM

It's not all lace rock. There's about 95 lbs of total rock in the dispaly, roughly 50 - 55 lbs of it is lace rock.

Don Lino · 06/10/2006, 06:40 PM

Kool, thanks so much for the info...I'll post pix when I put mine up.

fsn77 · 06/10/2006, 06:44 PM

Sounds good... I'll keep an eye out for your pix.

Good luck and have fun!

Afishianado · 06/10/2006, 08:13 PM

I have used lace rock in my systems. I agree, it works well enough. I wouldn't replace good live rock with lace rock but I do like it for the shapes, crazy shapes. It grows coralline quickly and I have not been able to attribute anything negative with using it.

I would reccommend though that you clean it very well in fresh water before you use it. This includes using a stiff brush to remove all off the gold and rust colored lichen that you will likely find on lace rock, it comes of easily.

Don Lino · 06/10/2006, 10:20 PM

I will be using the lace rock that used to be in my freshwater Cichlid tank. Do I still need to clean it that good?

chrismunn · 06/10/2006, 10:27 PM

WHAT IS LACE ROCK?

fsn77 · 06/11/2006, 06:33 AM

Here's a site that has pictures of it dry so you can get a better idea of what it looks like: http://www.aquariumport.com/lace.htm

Saltz Creep · 06/11/2006, 07:26 AM

Lace rock is volcanic. It contains heavy metals like nickle, iron, and even aluminum. It's also chock full of phosphates. Utah lace rock is the worst. I wouldn't use it.

Afishianado · 06/11/2006, 08:14 AM

Not trying to argue here, just thinking out loud. Most the reefs throughout the world are based on volcanic rocks. Many of them are still in very close proximity to active flows. This by itself doesn't mean they are bad for your tank does it?

Has anyone done any tangible testing to check for PO4 leaching into salt water from lace rock? Maybe it would something worth doing.

If we can identify it as a source of deleterious substances, then I will stop using it.

Saltz Creep · 06/11/2006, 04:53 PM

Most reefs of the world have multiple layers of ancient coral skeletons and calcite rock on top of a volcanic rock base. The ocean can dilute out heavy metals and phosphate. A box of water cannot.

I personally had an immediate an horrible outbreak of green and brown algae when I used Utah lacerock. And it cleared up right after I removed it.

Do a search and you'll find a lot of of people with similar experiences as mine. If it were really safe everyone in SW aquairia would be using it because it's so darn cheap.

Afishianado · 06/11/2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

I personally had an immediate an horrible outbreak of green and brown algae when I used Utah lacerock. And it cleared up right after I removed it.

There is a start. One account of someone's experience. I will balance it with my own and other's experience of no trouble associated with the rock. Anyone else with negative experience? I would like to hear first hand accounts of experiences. Again, I'm not trying to make an argument of this. I would like to know what Lace rock does to the water. So far we have positive and negative feedback but really no one seems to know. Anyone have a PO4 test kit and would be willing to do a test? That or any other testing that someone could do would be helpful. I'll see what I can do as well. Let's get to the bottom of this...

Quote:

If it were really safe everyone in SW aquairia would be using it because it's so darn cheap.

If it were instant death then we would know that as well and we don't so lets find out since it is so darn cheap and it looks so darn cool.

fsn77 · 06/11/2006, 05:52 PM

Different sources of any rock are likely to have differing compositions when it comes to metals, phosphates, etc. Some will be worse than others.

While I don't know the exact source locale of the lace rock in my tank, I would guess it's not Utah lace rock -- my PO4 tests at 0 and has ever since week 2. If it was leaching large quantities of PO4, it would have started to show by now. I wouldn't say my tank is phosphate free, as there has to be some in order for the macro algae to be growing in the refugium. Most of what really is there is probably being added to the tank when I feed, and is being taken up.

As with anything, buyer beware...

But, there are other reasons lace rock is not more widely used. I've been told by others that they don't like it because it is denser, not as porous, and just not as good at biological filtration over time as true reef base rock once it becomes live.

Shagwong Reef · 06/12/2006, 12:18 PM

I have a substantial amount of lace rock in my reef, also used as base rock. I had it when the tank was FO with some decorations. It is getting nice algae growth and the inverts seem to like it. I haven't had any bad luck or spikes of any kind using it, but then again, I've also stuck myself numerous times with a rusty nail and not gotten tetanus! Might just be luck. Clearly, given the option with an unlimited bankroll, I would use only the best quality live rock. probably Tonga Branching, IMHO. I haven't yet been convinced that using lace as a base is necessarily a bad thing.

fsn77 · 06/12/2006, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shagwong Reef
Clearly, given the option with an unlimited bankroll, I would use only the best quality live rock. probably Tonga Branching, IMHO.

I agree... more money would have meant all quality LR, and some equipment upgrades from what came with our used set-up when we bought it. But, you do the best you can with what you can afford.

In case it's not obvious from the pictures, our tank is nearly empty as far as fish are concerned. We have more cleaner shrimp than we do fish! (3 cleaner shrimp, 2 fish) Besides the fact that we cannot find any of the fish we want locally now that we're ready for them, I figure the more time we give all that lace rock to become even slightly populated with bacteria the better.

fsn77 · 06/14/2006, 02:18 PM

Anyone else using lace rock willing to share their phosphate readings and experience with it?

06/10/2006, 09:44 AM	#1
Don Lino Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 3,435	Rock Questions Has anyone ever tried using Lace rock in an Aquarium setup? Let me know please and what ere the results. Thanks so much, I'm thinking about doing this with live sand. __________________ Andy Dufresne: "Get busy living, or get busy dying" Current Tank Info: Over skimming my 120RR with an I-Tech 400

06/10/2006, 09:45 AM	#2
Don Lino Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 3,435	sorry, I meant reef setup __________________ Andy Dufresne: "Get busy living, or get busy dying" Current Tank Info: Over skimming my 120RR with an I-Tech 400

06/10/2006, 09:47 AM	#3
DJ88© Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: BC. Canada. Posts: 14,351	This thread has been moved to the current forum. __________________ Darren Beauty fades.... Stupid is forever...... Current Tank Info: 34 Gal Solana with some lights.. and pumps that make water move. And fish...

06/10/2006, 01:10 PM	#5
Don Lino Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 3,435	Nice, can you post some pix of your tank please. __________________ Andy Dufresne: "Get busy living, or get busy dying" Current Tank Info: Over skimming my 120RR with an I-Tech 400

06/10/2006, 06:18 PM	#7
Don Lino Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 3,435	NICE...is that ALL Lace rock? If so, how many pounds? __________________ Andy Dufresne: "Get busy living, or get busy dying" Current Tank Info: Over skimming my 120RR with an I-Tech 400

06/10/2006, 12:51 PM	#4
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	All of my base rock is lace rock. Some of the LR I got with my used set-up is lace rock, too. It seems to be doing just fine, although the tank has only been completely reassembled and running for a couple of months now. The coralline algae is growing on it very well, plus the amphipods and mysis shrimp seem to love the holes / pores in it. So far, I have no complaints.

06/10/2006, 06:05 PM	#6
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	Sure, no problem... I checked my log -- our tank will be 2 months old tomorrow. It's not bad for 2 months, IMO. Tank shot from 1 month ago: Tank shot from today (sorry, ticked off the bubble coral when I cleaned the front glass): Some lace rock close-ups (sorry, a couple are fuzzy):

06/10/2006, 06:28 PM	#8
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	It's not all lace rock. There's about 95 lbs of total rock in the dispaly, roughly 50 - 55 lbs of it is lace rock.

06/10/2006, 06:40 PM	#9
Don Lino Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 3,435	Kool, thanks so much for the info...I'll post pix when I put mine up. __________________ Andy Dufresne: "Get busy living, or get busy dying" Current Tank Info: Over skimming my 120RR with an I-Tech 400

06/10/2006, 06:44 PM	#10
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	Sounds good... I'll keep an eye out for your pix. Good luck and have fun!

06/10/2006, 08:13 PM	#11
Afishianado Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Florida Posts: 1,021	I have used lace rock in my systems. I agree, it works well enough. I wouldn't replace good live rock with lace rock but I do like it for the shapes, crazy shapes. It grows coralline quickly and I have not been able to attribute anything negative with using it. I would reccommend though that you clean it very well in fresh water before you use it. This includes using a stiff brush to remove all off the gold and rust colored lichen that you will likely find on lace rock, it comes of easily.

06/10/2006, 10:20 PM	#12
Don Lino Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 3,435	I will be using the lace rock that used to be in my freshwater Cichlid tank. Do I still need to clean it that good? __________________ Andy Dufresne: "Get busy living, or get busy dying" Current Tank Info: Over skimming my 120RR with an I-Tech 400

06/10/2006, 10:27 PM	#13
chrismunn Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 4,200	WHAT IS LACE ROCK? __________________ Marine Aquarists Association of South Texas Austin Reef Club PBITAWA... Current Tank Info: 14g bio cube

06/11/2006, 06:33 AM	#14
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	Here's a site that has pictures of it dry so you can get a better idea of what it looks like: http://www.aquariumport.com/lace.htm

06/11/2006, 07:26 AM	#15
Saltz Creep Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hickville, FL Posts: 3,728	Lace rock is volcanic. It contains heavy metals like nickle, iron, and even aluminum. It's also chock full of phosphates. Utah lace rock is the worst. I wouldn't use it.

06/11/2006, 08:14 AM	#16
Afishianado Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Florida Posts: 1,021	Not trying to argue here, just thinking out loud. Most the reefs throughout the world are based on volcanic rocks. Many of them are still in very close proximity to active flows. This by itself doesn't mean they are bad for your tank does it? Has anyone done any tangible testing to check for PO4 leaching into salt water from lace rock? Maybe it would something worth doing. If we can identify it as a source of deleterious substances, then I will stop using it.

06/11/2006, 04:53 PM	#17
Saltz Creep Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hickville, FL Posts: 3,728	Most reefs of the world have multiple layers of ancient coral skeletons and calcite rock on top of a volcanic rock base. The ocean can dilute out heavy metals and phosphate. A box of water cannot. I personally had an immediate an horrible outbreak of green and brown algae when I used Utah lacerock. And it cleared up right after I removed it. Do a search and you'll find a lot of of people with similar experiences as mine. If it were really safe everyone in SW aquairia would be using it because it's so darn cheap.

06/11/2006, 05:52 PM	#19
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	Different sources of any rock are likely to have differing compositions when it comes to metals, phosphates, etc. Some will be worse than others. While I don't know the exact source locale of the lace rock in my tank, I would guess it's not Utah lace rock -- my PO4 tests at 0 and has ever since week 2. If it was leaching large quantities of PO4, it would have started to show by now. I wouldn't say my tank is phosphate free, as there has to be some in order for the macro algae to be growing in the refugium. Most of what really is there is probably being added to the tank when I feed, and is being taken up. As with anything, buyer beware... But, there are other reasons lace rock is not more widely used. I've been told by others that they don't like it because it is denser, not as porous, and just not as good at biological filtration over time as true reef base rock once it becomes live.

06/12/2006, 12:18 PM	#20
Shagwong Reef Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 11	lace rock experiences I have a substantial amount of lace rock in my reef, also used as base rock. I had it when the tank was FO with some decorations. It is getting nice algae growth and the inverts seem to like it. I haven't had any bad luck or spikes of any kind using it, but then again, I've also stuck myself numerous times with a rusty nail and not gotten tetanus! Might just be luck. Clearly, given the option with an unlimited bankroll, I would use only the best quality live rock. probably Tonga Branching, IMHO. I haven't yet been convinced that using lace as a base is necessarily a bad thing. __________________ "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." - Dean Wormer Current Tank Info: 92 gal AGA corner tank w/ megaflow and 15 gal sump and refugium; 26 gal mini reef

06/14/2006, 02:18 PM	#22
fsn77 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: SC Posts: 777	Anyone else using lace rock willing to share their phosphate readings and experience with it?