phyto question

[Spiffyguy]

2 questions for all you phyto growers out there. I have one batch I started 2 weeks ago using 7ml of DT in a 2 liter with 5ml of Miracle Grow. It seems to be growing well. I swish it every day and the "dust at the bottom" is growing. So I am going to split it. Just to confirm. I take 1/3 the bottle into a new bottle and add my Miracle Grow and new saltwater. That sound right? Then the remaining 2/3 are for the tanks.

Also I have been feeding 5ml to my 24 and 2ml to my 10 gallon about every other day. What levels should I be feeding with home grown stuff? Since it is not a concentrated as DTs.

Thanks

[chadscamaro]

usually you cannot culture dt's since they do something to it to prevent that, so what you have may not be what you think ??

[Spiffyguy]

hmm. I read that DT is a blend and you usually end up with one type of phyto that out competes the other types in the blend. So you eventually end up with on type. I am not sure how to tell what is in there since I don't have a microscope, but it has increased in population that is for sure.

[DrBDC]

I'm not sure it was the miracle grow but I was starting to have a phosphate problem. It went away but I stopped the miracle grow method at the same time I started using Micro Algae grow from Florida Aqua Farms. But here is what I do:

Mix the new water to 20-25 ppt salt.
Add 6 cups to each 2 liter bottle.
Add 1 ml bleach to each bottle and leave a day or until use.
Day before using the bottle add 2 ml dechlorinator.
20 drops micro algae grow fertilizer.
Add 2 cups phyto from previous culture.
Bubble/light and let it go 1-2 weeks.


I usually mix up about 24 bottles at a time of the saltwater/bleach and I use 4 bottles per culture run.
I go by eye on color but there are dip sticks you can use to measure density.

Then I let it settle in the fridge and if (not always) there is a settling with clear fluid at the top I carefully pour off the clear fluid.

[DrBDC]

BTW I tried a half dozen times on the dt's and never could get a culture going.

[Spiffyguy]

So how can you tell if the culture is going? The amount of cells in this first batch increased from what I put in originally.

[DrBDC]

If it's increasing then you're growing. If I recall correctly it seemed I had it going but it crashed in just a little bit and didn't get as concentrated as it should have when it crashed. I also wasn't doing the sanitation measures then so I may have just messed up. If it doesn't work out let me know and I'll get you some nanno to start with.

[Spiffyguy]

ok cool. So since this stuff is less concentrated than DTs what do you recommend dosing? I was doing 5ml on my 24 and 2ml on my 10 gallon about every other day.

[Eron]

hey guys,
I have tried Dt's for the last 2 months and am still trying, i use the same recipe Melev's site has, mines crashed several times but i think its cause i use a flood light the par is 4200 though so i don't know. Anyhow what i am asking is what lights do you use.

[DrBDC]

I have an old pressboard constructed 10 gallon stand that can have 1 under and 1 on top. Under the upper shelf I have a 65w LOA floodligh fixture mounted. On the backside I have aluminum foil. On the front I have 2 clip on lights with those dull aluminum cones and in there I have those coiled up fluorescent bulbs that are 6500K. Then over that front side I have a big piece of aluminum foil that just hangs over the 2 clip on lights and I raise it up to look in. I 18 hours lighting with the break going from 12-6 in the afternoon. That was mostly because it's in a storage room in the basement and in the winter it was cold feeling in there w/o hvac to the room so I didn't want it to be lights off at night when it was colder.

I do a cup a day on my system which is 210 total gallons minus whatever the rocks take up.

[Eron]

good god, thats a lot of light, your serious about growing the phyto, man maybe i am just under lighting it, thats where my problem is, how dark is your finished product, for instance is it as dark as DT's

[Spiffyguy]

I am using an old strip light that I got from a friend that gave me a 55 gallon for free. The lights are just standard, and old, strip lights. I stuck it in a bucket standing on end with the 2 liter close to it. I swish the bottle a few times a day. It is in my basement but there is HVAC in that room.

[DrBDC]

It looks pretty close to dt's on a good batch but sometimes a little lighter. If it's lighter I do the settling/pour off and then it's real close. I'm sure if I did a cell count it wouldn't be as concentrated though.

On the lights I just used what I had around already w/o spending any money. The LOA fixture bolted up real easy under the shelf and then I had a couple old clip on's from when I tried those type bulbs on the sump. I do have 4 bottles going and could probably space it out and have a dozen, or close to it w/o adding more light.

[Kathy55g]

Hi,
I use a shop light with daylight shoplight bulbs from the hardware store.

[Kathy55g]

[Kathy55g]

pump and stuff on the top shelf, phyto on the second shelf, bottles with bleach and saltwater ready to go on the third shelf, rotifers and brine shrimp on the bottom.

My recipe:
20-25 ppt saltwater
fill clean bottles 2/3 full
add 8 drops bleach, cap and shake
store until use.

To start a new bottle,
add 10 drops sodium thio sulphate(55grams per liter)
add f/2 guillard's fertilizer, 0.5 ml if from Florida aqua farms, 3-4 ml if dry mix, reconstituted is used.
take darkest nannochlorpsis culture and transfer tubing and cap to the new bottle
fill new bottle to within 2 inches of top
cap and apply air for one week.

Light is 16 hours on a timer. Plants need dark time too.

Turns pretty dark green, not like DT's though. DT's is something like 10x concentrated.

I would not use miracle grow. It is made for terrestrial plants, and has metals and other stuff you might not want in your tank.

I don't know how much DT's costs but if it is more than five bucks, you can get started cheaper buying it from me or DrBDC. And your phyto will not have to struggle to find the fittest surviving strain from the mix of DT's. Dr and I grow nannochlorpsis, though my Chicago connectin just sent me some other types of microalgae, and i'm trying to culture them. Not needed for the clownfish, but I just wanted to try.

[DrBDC]

When did you changed to a raw material for the dechlorination vs. the "over the counter" ones? How is the price on it that way?

[Eron]

Kathy what price would you sell a bottle for, im considering buying some from you and drbdc, the DT's foes for 12 at my lfs i think, Im wanting to start a culture from you guys and also see how my leathers and clams react to your phyto strain

[Spiffyguy]

well if this batch doesn't work out then I will start over and snag a sample from you guys lol.

[Eron]

i actually have a nice bottle of it that is of decent coloring like what your showing but it has taken almost three weeks to get it that way and i have some purple algea on the inside of it growing from all of the light intensity and warmth from the bulb being so close to the bottles, so i'm a little wary of using it

[DrBDC]

Those pics she took are of a new batch just starting. I'll attach a pic that will give you a better idea but the lights weren't on and they were just warming up so the pic looks a little yellow.

[Phyto]

Spiffyguy:
From your original post it sounds like you have it down. I would also lean away from the miracle grow. There is no question that it will work. I used to use it. I'd go with the FLA aqua farm's f/2 liquid Micro Grow (the whole culture process is outlined on the back of each fertilizer bottle). It is made with aquaculture in mind. I use it and get thick soupy green cultures every week. I also do the concentration method that DrBDC describes, pouring off the top layer.
I would also recommend starting with a pure culture from FAF or a fellow reefer. I always have extra. I would give you some free, but I live a few hours south.

-I use 48" N.O. fluorescent (18 hrs on) with "cool white" bulbs. Shoot for bulbs with a high blue/violet peak on the spectrum, as these colors stimulate vegetative growth in plants.
-Room temp. (75-80 F)
-Salinity is 1.017
-10 drops of Micro Grow/ 2 liter jug
-Aerate like a low boil, no air stones
-Start new cultures (with 1/3 old) every 8-9 days

Also, I read that phytoplankton has a peak nutritional harvest time of about 7 days after inoculation of new culture. That is also under optimum culture.
One last thing, try to be conscious of dumping any unused or "dead" phyto down the sink, toilet, shower or outside. Boil it on the stove first. The stuff can live in fresh or salt water. It can run off to streams, lakes and springs and has the potential to cause problems in native flora and fauna communities. That may sound a little over cautious. Five days a week I see, first hand, how the mismanagement of plants has destroyed acres of pristine land and water.
good luck buddy

[Spiffyguy]

Thanks for the info. I was following the directions off of Melev's site. His reciepe uses the miricle grow. As far as the culture since I had DTs I figured I would try it. So far the 2nd batch has alot more cells that I can see. I have been running 2 weeks in between splits. Mainly because I don't use too much of the stuff. So far this works out right. Any leftovers will get dumped outside under my deck. Usually where all my algae that gets removed ends up.