Sick Anemone - Help! Sebae Anemone

[Jayded]

We bought this Anemone about 2 weeks ago. It was a Sebae Anemone (or so they said when we bought it but it wouldnt be the first time if theyre wrong!)
Now when we got him he was perfect and thriving. We put him where we wanted him and he moved a bit but then went back to where we put him and pretty much planted himself there ever since. He was eating fine (krill) every few days plus any of the fish food we dropped in for the other fish that he caught. We have 2 clows but they havent been near him yet. We also have 2 hermit crabs which one in particular likes to crawl near the anemone and touch it to which the anemone just curls itself away.
About 24 hours ago I notices his foot was no longer attached and just sitting there at the back. I thought he may be planning to move but he hasnt yet. And by the evening I noticed that the back was quite skinny compared to what it had been. This is him last week:


He was real full and seemed happy, the fact he hadnt moved from his spot made me think he was happy there. But now he doesnt puff up as much and when hes just sitting there its VERY skinny and looks shorter than it was.
Here he is as much as I can get from the back now:

Kind of hard to see but he is opened and I cant get to the back of him.
Here is him from the front today:

He still seems like he looks ok from the front but he may not be quite as big as he was. His tenticles arent as full as they have been but theyre not shrunken or non existant so theres not much difference there. The main thing is he is not attaching and it seems skinnier. Almost like he is deteriorating before my eyes.
I am hoping someone can help me find out whats wrong and if its fixable so I can get down to the LFS today and pick up what I might need.
Is Krill ok to feed him or should I try something else? The lighting is the same as what he had when we bought him but maybe I should try brighter? I read if the lighting isnt enough they will climb onto the rocks to get closer but he hasnt moved and I would have thought he would have tryed a different place if he wasnt happy? My husband has said he just looks like hes dying but I dont want to give up that easily if theres something I can do.. he has been so healthy looking and all up until yesterday. I have read through FAQ's and searched the net but am still unable to identify the problem after researching
Hope someone can help. Thanks in Advance!!

[Ciarán]

It certainly isnt dying, rest assured. You would know that it was extremely serious by observing that the oral cavity or mouth is protruding and gaping with the soft endodermic tissue exposed. It clearly isnt doing that but it isnt totally happy either. Another good indicator of a healthy/unhealthy anemone is the smell. A healthy specimin will exhibit a marine/earthy smell whereas dying specimins produce a foul odour of pestilence. Heteractis crispa or the Sebae anemone is a shallow water species as far as i am aware. The white colouration and the purple tips are indicators that A.) the light colour is indicative of strong lighting in its natural environment and B.) the presence of purple tips which will fluoresce under actinic light show it has U.V. absorbing pigments in its tips and therefore is naturally exposed to U.V.A and/or U.V.B. in its natural environmnet which permeate only through the uppermost layers of the water column.

What does this mean? Well for one thing it should have powerful lighting. PCs at the very least, preferably M/H IMO. 150W in the upper part of a 2' deep tank would be sufficient but IMHO 250W would be more appropriate (dependent on tank dimensions of course). Its hard to say what the matter is unless you list some of your tank parameters such as Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, Phosphate, Alkalinity, pH, Salinity etc. Your tank inhabitants and your filtration apparatus. However, check for any lacerations of the basal disk or foot and tears in the outer skin tissue or ectoderm. The presence of such afflictions is a bad omen but the pictures would indicate a more environmentally rooted issue. Make sure not to overfeed your anemone. I feed mine about once a week at the most and i feel that is more than adequate as its growth will testify. Anemones close up routinely when digesting their food and will appear deflated and somewhat retracted for up to several days until the metabolic processes are complete, and will culminate through the expulsion of long stringy filamentous waste products, orange/brown in colour from its mouth cavity. Its tentacles can often be notably deflated and the gastrovascular cavity (its gut) constricted to a large extent (forcing the waste out).

Only feed the anemone small fragents of food, as it may have trouble digesting wholly larger fragements given its current size. Many members here suggest silversides but i use finely chopped brine and mysis shrimp and they work great, deliverd via pipette. Make sure that if you stock other corals in your tank that you employ a skimmer and preferably some chemically adsorbing device such as activated carbon. Please list the volume of your tank, your stocking list, lighting and other equipment as well as your tank parameters for a better response.

Ciaran.

[Jayded]

Thanks so much for all the info.
All the tests have been normal (ie 0 amonia, 0 nitrite, ph 8.3-8.4) It is sitting directly under the current coming in so it seems to be in a good place.
I have been to my LFS (they dont always know a great deal but I asked them as well anyways) they gave me an iodine supplement especially for soft corals and anemones, so I am hoping this will help. I asked them about my lighting, they said what we have should be fine, the tank we got him from still has some anemones in it and their lighting is alot duller than what we have. They all seem to be doing ok there.
We also got some brine shrimp as its smaller and I thought he might be able to eat that better seeing he appears a little weak.
The tank size is approx 26 - 27 gallons and only has 2 clowns and 2 hermits in with it, no other corals or anything.
Thanks again for the help, I feel a little better about him surviving now.

[Ciarán]

Tank size is fine for the moment, but a healthy sebae will outgrow even that in a year or so if not less.

they gave me an iodine supplement especially for soft corals and anemones

Anemones are not soft corals, they are solitary "polyps" so to speak and unless you are referring to zoanthids/mushrooms etc. they arent colonial. Though soft corals and anemones are of the same class, the Anthozoa or "flower" like animals, they are fundamentally different in their sub-class. Soft corals have tentacles arranged in sets of or multiples of 8 whereas anemones and hard corals are arranged in multiples of six. Another major difference between soft corals and anemones is the fact that soft corals incorportate spicules of calcium carbonate into their structure and thus require active management of calcium and alkalinity levels. Anemones on the other hand are invertebrates composed of two layers of cells which enclose a layer of soft jelly like material of "mesenchyme" cells, the have absolutely no use for calcium carbonate, only alkalinity needs to be managed effectively as it would need to be in the case of whatever organisms you have in your aquarium.

OK so what am i on about? Personally i feel the iodine supplement won't do a whole lot, if anything. Its more of a placebo than a cure in this case. Iodine in my experience is effective for invertebrates such as Tridacnid clams and some LPS and SPS corals for maintaining their vitality and striking colouration, i havent heard it being of huge use for soft corals but i may be lacking in info i that regard. Iodine is also cited as helpful to assist a symbiont zooxanthellae hosting organism acclimate to "light" shock of more powerful lighting. The algae hosted in the cells of your Sebae Anemone produce energy via photosynthesis which is "translocated" or taken up by the anemone as energy/food. The algae in return feeds off the nitrogenous waste produced by the anemone via its respiration. However if the rate of photosynthesis drastically increases, the oxygen production of the algae increases at a faster rate than the anemone can adapt and causes oxygen poisoning. In this case it has been shown that iodine can help in the recovery of an organism with such an affliction, but only when administered locally.

Personally i feel this isnt the case. Its environmental IMO. Gently move the anemone to a more prominent location in your tank, closer to the lights and see if their is any improvement. Step up your water changes to a more regular regimen. How old is your tank? Are you just beginning stocking? If its is younger than 6 months old it may not be fit, yet, to cater for this rather specialized organism. Tanks need to mature and i would leave it at least 6 months if not more before introducing such a delicate creature, if it is younger, dont worry, just keep doing regular water changes and keep organic load down and keep salinity, pH and alkalinity stable. Feed once or twice a week, no more. Do you use a skimmer or activated carbon? What is your water source like, hopefully you use RO/DI and at the very very least you dechlorinate I sincerely hope. (Sorry for being so presumptious, covering every scenario here!). Please tell me what lights you use as what the LFS says is adequate may very well not be.

My LFS told me my 36W N.O. tubes were sufficient to keep a BTA. Luckily i researched and bought a 150W MH.

Ciaran.

[Amphiprion]

Originally posted by Ciarán
Tank size is fine for the moment, but a healthy sebae will outgrow even that in a year or so if not less.



Anemones are not soft corals, they are solitary "polyps" so to speak and unless you are referring to zoanthids/mushrooms etc. they arent colonial. Though soft corals and anemones are of the same class, the Anthozoa or "flower" like animals, they are fundamentally different in their sub-class. Soft corals have tentacles arranged in sets of or multiples of 8 whereas anemones and hard corals are arranged in multiples of six. Another major difference between soft corals and anemones is the fact that soft corals incorportate spicules of calcium carbonate into their structure and thus require active management of calcium and alkalinity levels. Anemones on the other hand are invertebrates composed of two layers of cells which enclose a layer of soft jelly like material of "mesenchyme" cells, the have absolutely no use for calcium carbonate, only alkalinity needs to be managed effectively as it would need to be in the case of whatever organisms you have in your aquarium.

OK so what am i on about? Personally i feel the iodine supplement won't do a whole lot, if anything. Its more of a placebo than a cure in this case. Iodine in my experience is effective for invertebrates such as Tridacnid clams and some LPS and SPS corals for maintaining their vitality and striking colouration, i havent heard it being of huge use for soft corals but i may be lacking in info i that regard. Iodine is also cited as helpful to assist a symbiont zooxanthellae hosting organism acclimate to "light" shock of more powerful lighting. The algae hosted in the cells of your Sebae Anemone produce energy via photosynthesis which is "translocated" or taken up by the anemone as energy/food. The algae in return feeds off the nitrogenous waste produced by the anemone via its respiration. However if the rate of photosynthesis drastically increases, the oxygen production of the algae increases at a faster rate than the anemone can adapt and causes oxygen poisoning. In this case it has been shown that iodine can help in the recovery of an organism with such an affliction, but only when administered locally.

Personally i feel this isnt the case. Its environmental IMO. Gently move the anemone to a more prominent location in your tank, closer to the lights and see if their is any improvement. Step up your water changes to a more regular regimen. How old is your tank? Are you just beginning stocking? If its is younger than 6 months old it may not be fit, yet, to cater for this rather specialized organism. Tanks need to mature and i would leave it at least 6 months if not more before introducing such a delicate creature, if it is younger, dont worry, just keep doing regular water changes and keep organic load down and keep salinity, pH and alkalinity stable. Feed once or twice a week, no more. Do you use a skimmer or activated carbon? What is your water source like, hopefully you use RO/DI and at the very very least you dechlorinate I sincerely hope. (Sorry for being so presumptious, covering every scenario here!). Please tell me what lights you use as what the LFS says is adequate may very well not be.

My LFS told me my 36W N.O. tubes were sufficient to keep a BTA. Luckily i researched and bought a 150W MH.

Ciaran.

I agree. Iodine is not needed in this case and will serve no purpose for this animal. It is good to feed a variety of things, but I have noted that silversides are a better overall food for this particular species. In your case, I would feed smaller bits at least three times per week, with every other day probably being ideal. What kind of lighting do you have? I never saw that you mentioned it (of course, I may have passed over it). What is your salinity/specific gravity, temperature? Otherwise, give it some time and feed it well. If it does well, it will easily outgrow your tank, as Ciaran mentioned.

[Jayded]

I am going to ask the hubby about the lighting, we bought it all in a package so Im not sure what came with it will get back on that one.
The iodine stuff they gave us specifically says on the bottle that its a suplement for anemones so I figure it cant hurt to try. Im going to try and feed him a very small amount tomorrow. To be honest he looks slightly better this afternoon than he did yesterday and this morning! Hopefully he will be his normal self again soon. He seems to have attached again to the sand (which he wasnt doing) so I guess thats something!!
Thanks again guys

[boyooso]

May I ask how old your tank is?

[Jayded]

Oh sorry meant to add that its about 5 months give or take a week or 2.
We do 25% water changes every week to 2 weeks (since adding fish) and we have only added fish about a month and a half ago. We added hermit crabs under 2 months after the tank had been running with live rock and then the fish later.

[Amphiprion]

If you choose to add the iodine supplement anyway (which I recommend against for a handful of reasons), add it to an area of high water flow so it will not come in direct contact with any animals. BTW, most anemones get all the iodine/iodide/iodate from the foods they eat. One word of warning about supplements--the manufacturer will give a list of supposed things the additive is meant for, whether it actually is or not.

[Amphiprion]

Here--

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2003/chem.htm

This may clear up any confusion about what I said in the above statement about iodine addition.

[Ciarán]

Update on lighting would be great. It doesnt sound like it is a MH pendant if it just "came out of a package". Could easily be the problem. Like I said, use the iodine if you wish, its a placebo at best and a pollutant/organic fuel at worst, personally i wouldnt.

[Reef4Fun]

I had the same type anemonie, the same problem and all. What I had to do is put it in a plastic container (it was so bad it would not attatch to anything, was just floating around in the tank) I put him in the container because i had no way to keep it up close to the light, i let him float up there right under the light for weeks, changing his water at least twice a day wtih tank water. I feed him tiny tiny piecse of shirmp, he snapped out of it and looked wonderful. I then put him in my bigger tank that has the MH lights and he went downhill after that and died. I should have left him in the other tank, but I had to break it down. I guess it was too much of a shock for it, but everything read the same except the lighting was different. Good luck, just wanted to share.

[raoul]

We have a sebae as well, but your looks to be in MUCH better condition than ours was. I think you've had some really good advice, and been asked some very good questions, I think the only one we're still curious about is the lighting. For the most part anemonies need stronger lighting, although some (with much experience) have done it with less. The store we got ours from had them in poor lighting, so anything we had would have been better, but not necessarily ideal.

I think the only thing I would add, is about the brine shrimp. My understanding is that there's not a lot of "meat" and nutrition there. We used mysis shrimp but ours was a lot weaker than yours appears to be, small pieces of silver side would be better. Ours also seems to like clams quite a bit. Remember, these are meat eaters.

You've got a great chance with this nem, most people aren't so lucky. I don't think I've ever seen an unbleached sebae in the LFS in our area. That's half the battle. It could be something as simple as getting rid of waste, and finding a happy spot.

FYI: mine has never climbed the rocks, I think these guys stay pretty close to the sand, but there is an exception for everything!

Good luck!!!

[Jayded]

I think I will try getting a brighter light at least for the side he's on, that might help him. (Hubbys away for the weekend and he doesnt know off hand so I will just go to the LFS and buy a globe of about 150w-250w which would you recommend?)
He has now completely closed up like he has eaten himself! Hes causing me stress just when I think he looks like hes improving he does something else. This was after the lights went out for the night, but I have never seen him do this before so it could be normal? Maybe he does it every night Ive just never ever seen it.


Thanks heaps for all the input - it has mostly put my mind at ease that he will be ok.

[Ciarán]

his was after the lights went out for the night, but I have never seen him do this before so it could be normal?

Yeah its fine after lights out, perfectly normal and a good sign that it is responding to light stimuli. Best not to take flash photography of it though! Powerful lights can be a large monetary investment with many mechanical and practical concerns such as overheating of a small tank, fire hazards, how to hang it, increased electricity bills etc. It is a big decision IMO to go all out. If you really are serious about this anemone by all means i would encourage the investment but it is a significant acquisition. On the plus side it means you can open yourself up to keeping a whole host of new and amazing organisms such as corals, clams etc. provided you can administer the appropriate husbandry for them. Personally i think your anemone is looking quite well. Sure, it is not expanding to a huge extent but its tentacles are in fine condition and its colouration is beautiful, exhibiting a healthy zooxanthellae population and U.V. absorbing pigmentation. With the right lighting and nutritional needs along with the sustainance of the current optimal environmental parameters I see no reason why this specimin wont do fine. If you want to keep it, new lighting is in order IMO.

How deep is your tank? If it is 2' deep as i think it probably is, a 150W halide pendant about 20cm from the surface would be plenty for this anemone. Make sure to keep the photo period subdued for the first week or two to allow adaptation. Gradually increase for 4-5 hours a day to 8-9 hours over a two week period. Preferably get a halide that has bulbs of 10,000 degrees Kelvin or less, as these are the most beneficial spectra for symbiotic invertebrates. I use a 150 Watt HQI Metal Halide of 10,000K and my anemones are all thriving. If you dont have a protein skimmer, I think they are a necessity with anemones, maybe you should consider one.

BTW i know all this equipment is a big ask for a creature you probably paid less than $50 for, but IMHO it is the responsibily of retail outlets to ensure you can supply the correct equipment, if not that is a serious irresponsibility and immorality IMO. If you feel this is too big an ask you could always return it but IMO, it will do much better under your care with just a few additions.

Ciaran

[Jayded]

It is approx 2' deep, great to hear that he looks ok! He really has improved, 2 days ago I expected to wake up and find we had lost him but since reading up on the "dying process" I now realise there would have been no doubt at all if he was dying or not. I will most definitly look into the 150w lighting to make sure hes happy and healthy. One thing I have noted from visiting the 2 LFS in my area is they dont know everything! Both can have different information on different things so that why I decided to come here. The more info the better. This is another reason Im not suprised they didnt advise that I get brighter lighting (although you think theyd tell you anything to get more money out of you!) I even specifically asked but the guy said the lighting they had on them was less bright than what I had and they have never lost any so they didnt think it was necessary.
Thanks again for your help.

[Jayded]

Just an update on this, I changed the lighting and he finally moved himself which he hadnt tryed yet. I also bought him an anemone shrimp because the clowns arent interested in him at all. He is now pretty much stable and open fully all the time. I asked the LFS what the shrimp would do for him and they said he would do pretty much the same as a clown and it may help stimulate him.. seems to have helped some. The little shrimp hasnt left him and he has responded well to having it there. Definitly doesnt look like death as I had thought last week! I went to the LFS today where they still have some and he now looks exactly like the ones there now which is what he looked like when we bought him. Very happy to see him better.
Thanks again guys for your help!

[Amphiprion]

Glad to hear it is doing better. BTW, I doubt the anemone shrimp would have much of an effect at all.

[Jayded]

I was thinking the same but the LFS seemed to think it *could* help stimulate it. There was never a guarantee though

[Ciarán]

Very cool to see though! Great to hear things are on the up!

Ciaran.

[raoul]

Glad to hear things are going well!