Bioballs?

[jakaufman]

I have a canister filter that came with bioballs and carbon..

when is it appropriate to use bioballs and when is it not?

if i take them out, wht should i replace them with?

i have heard about them causing a lot of nitrates which would lead to more algae right? just want to get some opinions on using them or not

[sir_dudeguy]

imo, never...is your tank running right now? if so, slowly take them out...maybe 3 at a time or so, once a week, untill they're all gone.

they do cause problems if not cleaned regularly. And yes, algae is a result of nitrates/phosphates...lots of people will think its because of lighting that algae grows, but it has to have nutrients to first grow (whihc is the nitrates/phosphates) and the lighting just helps it.

as for what to replace them w/....nothing. Do you have live rock? your thing says "fish only w/LIVE ROCK" so i'm assuming you do...this is your filter..you dont need any mechanical filter for your tank to work properly. IMO canisters/hob/wetdry for saltwater isnt a good idea...they all have the chance of backfiring and causing your trates to go up.

hth
mike

[WaterKeeper]

I agree, use the canister to run that carbon but don't let it form a biofilm on the granules. I clean mine weekly by boiling it a few minutes. Then I reuse it. You can also use the canister empty to provide circulation or with a polishing filter to clean up a cloudy tank.

[jakaufman]

thanks for the advice, i will start takign them out

why the recommendation of taking out only a few at a time ?

[Mr31415]

Sorry for chirping in, but I am a bit confused. If one has a 500l or so reef aquarium, and you have a sump through which you circulate the water skimmed over the overflow, what is then the best kind of biological and mechanical filter one can put in the sump?

My LFS sort of acted as if there is only one proper solution - something like this (picture of sump):


| Skimmer | filter mat | lava rock | return pump |
| | ceramic noodles | bioballs | |
| | lava rock (?) | bioballs | |
| | bioballs | bioballs | |
|__________|________________________________|_______________|

Is that then bad since the bioballs and other media needs lots of maintenance? What is the best way to go them?

[Mr31415]

Seems the forum's font does not work.

Try 2:

[sir_dudeguy]

jakaufman...only a few at a time so that the good bacteria on them has a chance to grow back eliminating the chance of putting ur tank into shock

mr32415

no thats not really what you would want...live rock is yoru biological filtration...all that other stuff doenst work imo...well it does, but it backfires like i say above..

but yes, you can have the skimmer at the beginning where the intake is, but then imo...get rid of the 2 middle sections...well the stuff in them...if i were you, i'd make the skimmer in the 2nd one, then put a fuge in the next one...then have the return in the same place...that would be way easier..

all the ceramic noodles/bioballs/(maybe the lavarock..idk..) would just cause nitrates

hth
mike

[WaterKeeper]

Right on Mike.

The bioballs work real well but the problem is they don't encourage denitrification that requires low oxygen tension in the water column. The result is that nitrates form very quickly but never are denitrified to nitrogen gas. Tanks using wet/drys, biowheels and other fixed film biological reactors usually have high nitrate levels. You can add a planted sump to counteract this effect but it is more of a maintenance item than using a LR tank with a deep sand bed; at least IMO.

[Mr31415]

jakaufman - sorry for hijacking your thread. Hope you do not mind...

WaterKeeper - would it then be better if I (slowly) remove all the bioballs and other media such as the noodles and sponge, and like Mike said put in sections 2 and 3 of my sump a deep sand bed? I do not want to change the main tank's sand bed...

(I have about 80kg of live rock in my tank)

[WaterKeeper]

Sure you can use some of the media to help seed the bed and you're right not wanting to disturb it. When such media is placed in a passive mode, without the huge amounts of circulation it gets in a filter, it won't create overwhelming amounts of nitrate.

[Mr31415]

I am not sure I follow you completely... Can you perhaps elaborate a little bit? Thanks for your patience

[Mr31415]

If I understand you correctly - would it maybe not help more then to use lots of extra live rock in the sump instead of the deep sand bed? Since the LR is much better at de-nitrifying?

[sir_dudeguy]

imo, more rock in the sump would be ideal...thats what i'm gonna try in my sump, but idk if i'll have the room for it....maybe you could put a deep sand bed in the sump, and then more lr over that? i've seen that done a bit..

and ya, the fuge/planted area isnt nessessary, and it is just more mantainence...(spelling) but it will have some benefits, such as a place for the pods to grow and multiply, and the chaeto that you put in will help take away excess nitrates to a certain extent.

[breedingroom]

hey, I have a 110 gallon just getting started....it used to be FO, but took wet dry out and installed true sump.....however the built in overflow has bio balls in.....more as a silencer so to speak, do you think it is ok to have them in there? I was going to build a Durso, but thought the bio balls would help oxygenate the water a bit......any thoughts....waterkeeper?

[sir_dudeguy]

i'd take the bioballs out, and if you need something in there, put some live rock in there. rubble would work

[breedingroom]

good idea....i can kind of make it a fugre pod growth.....

[mg426]

I would agree, ditch the bio balls (slowly)

[WaterKeeper]

And LR is not as good as a DSB in denitrification. The problem with LR is the pore structure tends to clog up when it goes anoxic. That is what got the "rock cooking" craze started IMO.

[3D-Reef]

I would ditch the bio balls and noodles slowly too.LR is good if you can afford to buy massive amounts,but for nitrate control,IMO you can't beat a DSB.The sand will proscess the trates and if you use plants on a reverse lighting it will help with 02 and Ph.

[iamquockie]

how about a nano 12 gal--came with carbon filter a separate chamber for bio balls. It has been up and running for two weeks now. Is it safe to take all the bio's out? BTW i put established saltwater and established live rock in it.

[WaterKeeper]

Well if the nano is devoid of livestock you can pull all the bioballs out at once. Otherwise it is best to remove like 20% every week until they are gone.

I missed the question above on LS being better in the main tank or sump. The question here is how big is the sump? You want as much surface area for the DSB as possible and a small sump, in the 20-30 gallon range, doesn't have that much of a footprint. There I'd use the bed in the display. With bigger sumps you can give it a shot using the sump. If denitrification is not occurring in a few weeks after starting the bed then you can always add one to the display.