Does anyone know anything about penductors/eductors

hansnfrans · 08/01/2006, 01:04 AM

I've seen reference to these and w/out a proper explanation, can only assume that they disperse flow into the tank (from an external pump) over a wider range than a standard pipe would.

I think that I am confused. Help please

pk1 · 08/01/2006, 07:10 AM

Too bad you didn't ask last night while picking up frags, I have 4 of them laying around. They don't send out the flow in a wider range exactly...they increase the flow though, quite well actually. The design allows water to be drawn from behind the nozzle from the main tank by the water coming out of the nozzle. A great way to increase flow, thats for sure.

PK

Bryan89 · 08/01/2006, 07:58 AM

I would disagree with pk1; my eductors do tend to disperse flow in that the flow is a wider pattern the further you go from the nozzle of the penductor. I use 4 on my tank, with an automated 3 way valve to cycle the penductors on/off in pairs. It is a fairly forceful flow similiar to what a Tunze stream puts out but with no maintenance required.

What exactly did you want to know about the penductors?

Bryan

Doubledown · 08/01/2006, 07:58 AM

As pk1 had stated they do not disperse water in a wider range, they multiply the amount of flow coming out of the eductor. It is reported that a single eductor will generate up to 5x the gph flow of the pump it is driven by. To work properly, an eductor requires a pressure rated pump (something to do with required psi through the fitting).

Search for eductors here on RC - there should be a number of older posts about their applications and where to get them (unless PK wants to part with the ones he has).

pk1 · 08/01/2006, 08:20 AM

They may disperse flow a little, but their invention is not for that reason, they are meant to magnify the output of a pump.

http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc...nthusiasts.htm

Patrick

Bryan89 · 08/01/2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pk1
They may disperse flow a little, but their invention is not for that reason, they are meant to magnify the output of a pump.

http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc...nthusiasts.htm

Patrick

Agree. From your initial post I thought you were saying that the output is a jet type focused flow, which it certainly is not. The penductors put out a bunch of flow but require a pressure rated pump that uses a lot of electricity to run efficiently. I get about 4000-5000 gph from my penductors, running two at a time off a Blueline 70 HD.

Eductors have been around for a very long time; penductors were specifically designed to be short and provide a wide mixing pattern for acids, caustics and other nasty chemicals.

BTW, all of the frags I got from you are doing well.

Bryan

hansnfrans · 08/01/2006, 12:35 PM

So could I run 2-4 eductors on a closed loop, powered by a gen-x pcx40? Is there any way to pipe the eductors into the tank so that I could adjust the direction of their out put, instead of them just being attached to the back wall? So do I want Penductors or Eductors? Thanks.

Pk1- I am not positive, but I may be interested in buying those off you (if you want to sell 'em that is). I am considering going this route now, after you and Rod killed my dreams of a closed loop manifold

.

pk1 · 08/01/2006, 12:43 PM

A lot of people mount them to locline, then you can adjust them...let me know. They are brand new....3/4 with a male fitting I believe.

pk1 · 08/01/2006, 12:48 PM

BTW, 4 of those on one of those Ocean's Motions dohicky's would give you some pretty crazy flow patterns....not sure if they are all compatible though..pressure rated pump, penductrs and OM 4 way....just a thought

Bryan89 · 08/01/2006, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pk1
BTW, 4 of those on one of those Ocean's Motions dohicky's would give you some pretty crazy flow patterns....not sure if they are all compatible though..pressure rated pump, penductors and OM 4 way....just a thought

I set up a flow test loop and can tell you with certainty that an OM 4 way will not work with Penductors. The backpressure on the 4 way is too high to allow the drum to spin, hence the reason I use a 3 way valve to switch flow to my Penductors.

hansnfrans · 08/01/2006, 10:45 PM

Bryan89- I am shocked to hear that the OM won't work w/ penductors. What exactly is this 3 way valve that you speak of?

Bryan89 · 08/01/2006, 11:00 PM

The OM with the magnetic drum would not rotate against the backpressure that the penductors generate. Look at it this way, you are trying to put a great deal of flow through a 1/4" opening and many devices do not like that.

An automated 3 way valve is a valve that has an inlet port and two outlet ports. Depending on the design, one or both outlet ports (or none) can have flow at a given time. When power is applied to the valve, the port to which water is supplied changes. Keep in mind, the valves are not cheap (mine was $339) and require a controller to oscillate the valve. I use a Natural Wave Timer to change the valve position, it has worked well for 8 months with no maintenance on my part.

Bryan

PS Here is a link to a website that gave me the idea to use the 3 way valve. it includes photos and instructions: http://www.rockcanyon.com/reef/flow.htm

pk1 · 08/02/2006, 07:33 AM

Good info Bryan, I had a feeling it wouldn't work...sounded to good to be true

.

Patrick

Bryan89 · 08/02/2006, 08:36 AM

NP Patrick. I tested the OM 4 way for a few weeks with the Penductors and never could get it to work. The 3 way valve is essentially equivalent. Paul at OM was looking at an alternate product to use with eductors, something of a complete system for flow in a tank. I never heard any results, but I did volunteer to conduct testing.

Bryan

RobTop · 08/02/2006, 09:01 AM

Paul is almost done designing me a version 3 4 way that will work much like the 3 way valve. 2 ports open at a time and programable from 5 minutes to 2 hours as to the switching. Not sure if it will work with the back pressure though. Will be cheaper than an automatic ball valve for sure, I priced those out a few months back and $399 is an the cheap side.

08/01/2006, 01:04 AM	#1
hansnfrans Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 4,065	Does anyone know anything about penductors/eductors I've seen reference to these and w/out a proper explanation, can only assume that they disperse flow into the tank (from an external pump) over a wider range than a standard pipe would. I think that I am confused. Help please

08/01/2006, 07:58 AM	#4
Doubledown Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Richton Park, IL - Way Southside Posts: 2,037	As pk1 had stated they do not disperse water in a wider range, they multiply the amount of flow coming out of the eductor. It is reported that a single eductor will generate up to 5x the gph flow of the pump it is driven by. To work properly, an eductor requires a pressure rated pump (something to do with required psi through the fitting). Search for eductors here on RC - there should be a number of older posts about their applications and where to get them (unless PK wants to part with the ones he has). __________________ ...have you paid your dues, Jack?...Yes, sir - the check is in the mail.

08/02/2006, 09:01 AM	#15
RobTop Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Rockford area Posts: 1,815	Paul is almost done designing me a version 3 4 way that will work much like the 3 way valve. 2 ports open at a time and programable from 5 minutes to 2 hours as to the switching. Not sure if it will work with the back pressure though. Will be cheaper than an automatic ball valve for sure, I priced those out a few months back and $399 is an the cheap side. __________________ Never say die Current Tank Info: Building a 240 SPS AND 180 LPS system with a 75g fuge, 50g sediment trap, 75g cryptic, and xenia filter, with another 60g bulk water tied in

08/01/2006, 07:10 AM	#2
pk1 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 1,116	Too bad you didn't ask last night while picking up frags, I have 4 of them laying around. They don't send out the flow in a wider range exactly...they increase the flow though, quite well actually. The design allows water to be drawn from behind the nozzle from the main tank by the water coming out of the nozzle. A great way to increase flow, thats for sure. PK

08/01/2006, 07:58 AM	#3
Bryan89 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 914	I would disagree with pk1; my eductors do tend to disperse flow in that the flow is a wider pattern the further you go from the nozzle of the penductor. I use 4 on my tank, with an automated 3 way valve to cycle the penductors on/off in pairs. It is a fairly forceful flow similiar to what a Tunze stream puts out but with no maintenance required. What exactly did you want to know about the penductors? Bryan

08/01/2006, 08:20 AM	#5
pk1 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 1,116	They may disperse flow a little, but their invention is not for that reason, they are meant to magnify the output of a pump. http://www.kthsales.com/website/Misc...nthusiasts.htm Patrick

08/01/2006, 12:35 PM	#7
hansnfrans Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 4,065	So could I run 2-4 eductors on a closed loop, powered by a gen-x pcx40? Is there any way to pipe the eductors into the tank so that I could adjust the direction of their out put, instead of them just being attached to the back wall? So do I want Penductors or Eductors? Thanks. Pk1- I am not positive, but I may be interested in buying those off you (if you want to sell 'em that is). I am considering going this route now, after you and Rod killed my dreams of a closed loop manifold .

08/01/2006, 12:43 PM	#8
pk1 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 1,116	A lot of people mount them to locline, then you can adjust them...let me know. They are brand new....3/4 with a male fitting I believe.

08/01/2006, 12:48 PM	#9
pk1 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 1,116	BTW, 4 of those on one of those Ocean's Motions dohicky's would give you some pretty crazy flow patterns....not sure if they are all compatible though..pressure rated pump, penductrs and OM 4 way....just a thought

08/01/2006, 10:45 PM	#11
hansnfrans Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 4,065	Bryan89- I am shocked to hear that the OM won't work w/ penductors. What exactly is this 3 way valve that you speak of?

08/01/2006, 11:00 PM	#12
Bryan89 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 914	The OM with the magnetic drum would not rotate against the backpressure that the penductors generate. Look at it this way, you are trying to put a great deal of flow through a 1/4" opening and many devices do not like that. An automated 3 way valve is a valve that has an inlet port and two outlet ports. Depending on the design, one or both outlet ports (or none) can have flow at a given time. When power is applied to the valve, the port to which water is supplied changes. Keep in mind, the valves are not cheap (mine was $339) and require a controller to oscillate the valve. I use a Natural Wave Timer to change the valve position, it has worked well for 8 months with no maintenance on my part. Bryan PS Here is a link to a website that gave me the idea to use the 3 way valve. it includes photos and instructions: http://www.rockcanyon.com/reef/flow.htm

08/02/2006, 07:33 AM	#13
pk1 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Lombard, IL Posts: 1,116	Good info Bryan, I had a feeling it wouldn't work...sounded to good to be true . Patrick

08/02/2006, 08:36 AM	#14
Bryan89 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 914	NP Patrick. I tested the OM 4 way for a few weeks with the Penductors and never could get it to work. The 3 way valve is essentially equivalent. Paul at OM was looking at an alternate product to use with eductors, something of a complete system for flow in a tank. I never heard any results, but I did volunteer to conduct testing. Bryan