BTA's not doing so well

Ripside · 08/05/2006, 12:26 PM

Picked up a pair of green BTA's just over a month ago.

They looked great at the time, but have slowly been dwindling.

Neither of them have any tentacles out at all, and are very pale.

One has found a spot it likes, where its foot can go into a hole. The other one is currently hanging upside down from a rock. That one keeps going to the underside of the rock, and after a day or two if he stays I'll flip it over to get him into the light.

They're both in the top 1/2 of the tank, under about 320W of PC lighting, actinic and 10K.

I've tried direct feeding several times, but the food just floats away.

They both still respond to being bothered by retracting or moving, but they're not looking so good.

Water params are perfect - 0 for ammonia, nitrite and ntirate, pH 8.2, sg 1.022, calcium 480, temp 78.

Any suggestions?

alexk3954 · 08/05/2006, 01:01 PM

I have never owned an anemone, but they like lots of light and PC lighting MIGHT not be sufficient. IMO Calcium seems a bit high at 480. Do you know what your alkalinity is?

iantoh · 08/05/2006, 01:26 PM

hi there ripside,

good day.

im afraid your BTA doesnt seem to be doing well at all, as it looks throughly bleached. anemones arent easy to sustain long term, and though lots of experienced reefers have achieved great success with them, their success often hides the fact that anemones are difficult to sustain.

anemones do need alot of light, seeing as we're relying on them to photosynthesize more to make up for the lack of prey matter within our captive systems, but sometimes, it isnt all about light. 320w of PL lightings sounds like quite alot of light, though you didnt mention the height of your aquarium. height has alot of bearing on light intensity, and with PL lights, penetrability isnt as good as halide or T5 type lightings.

perhaps you might like to check your alkalinity levels. also, they might very well have been in a bad way when you purchased them and have just succumbed to ill health over this time that youve had them.

cheers,
ian

ADA33 · 08/05/2006, 01:30 PM

JMO do you think that the SG is a little low for a reef tank.

I think that most reef tanks from what I have seen in these forums is 1.025 to 1.026

ADA33 · 08/05/2006, 01:32 PM

Forgot to add I have a Sebae under PC and is doing fine. But I did have a situation were it started not to look so good and I changed out the bulbs and all is good again

Ripside · 08/05/2006, 01:56 PM

They looked great when I bought them, and for a coule weeks after. I know they have a slow metabolism, and are slow to react to bad conditions (bad for them anyway).

1) I can raise up to 1.025 easy enough over the next week or so. I know that takes time to move to prevent shock/stress.

2) My tank is 18" deep. The one in the photo is only 8" from the top of the tank, pretty well lit. I know they need lots of light so I was sure to place them up high. But the other one (not pictured) keeps crawling OUT of the light, maybe indicating something else is the problem.

3) I thought 480 was a good target for Ca.

4) Alk - I just went to buy an Alk test kit from the LFS, but it doesn't read real levels, just "hi" and "low." I'll have to order one. My pH is stable between 8.0 and 8.2, so am I incorrectly assuming my Alkalinity must be somewhat okay?

ADA33 · 08/05/2006, 02:16 PM

Quick question how old are your bulbs the pc lights only last 6-8months IME

Ripside · 08/05/2006, 02:27 PM

about 3 months...

Ripside · 08/05/2006, 02:34 PM

I tried using my swimming pool's test kit for alkalinity... came back at 280ppm. (I was careful not to let anything from the kit touch my tank or anything I use on it, and wash my hands well, as the pool test kit has undoubtedly got chlorine on it).

I converted the 280ppm using this calculator below, and that shows a 5.6 meq/l, which sounds pretty close.

http://saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php

alexk3954 · 08/05/2006, 03:00 PM

the alkalinity seems pretty low to me. I run my reef at around 10-11 alkalinity.

TKByrnes · 08/05/2006, 03:05 PM

i have 3 anemones under 320 watts of pc lighting in a 75 gal and they are all out and doing fine. your lighting is good enough to have anemone's IME but you might want to rais your alk.

Ripside · 08/05/2006, 03:41 PM

What's the best (easy) way to raise it?

BONDQ · 08/05/2006, 03:53 PM

Ripside,

ESV's B-Ionic Calcium buffer is considered a good product, and I have friend who uses it regularly. You'll not need the calcium component of it for now.

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...ic.asp?CartId=

I would raise the Alk (very slowly)!!
But before, I made any change I would buy a Salifert Alkalinity test kit to confirm that you ACTUALLY have an alkalinity problem, first. Always double-verify that you have a problem BEFORE trying to correct it, and never depend on a test kit not designed for the purpose; especially with a parameter change of this importance.

Also, I would adjust the salinity to 1.026 (also gradually).

If you're not already doing so, I would consider running carbon.
Perhaps, you have an unidentifiable toxin from a coral or something else. Carbon could help with that, and rarely hurts.

theop · 08/05/2006, 05:14 PM

Don't raise your alk!

You have to be careful with the units with alkalinity...

5.6 meq/L is actually high.

Alk should be 2.5-4.0 meq/L which is about 7-11 dKH. When alexk3954 said he keeps alk at 10-11, he means dKH.

Here is a conversion chart

mystikdragon7 · 08/05/2006, 06:06 PM

I agree with THEOP. DO NOT RAISE YOUR ALK!!! 5.6 is a bit on the high side. But don't do anything yet until you get a proper test kit. The test kit you used is geared for your outdoor pool, not salt water. When you tested your water with the test kit from your LFS what did it say?

BONDQ · 08/05/2006, 06:19 PM

Agreed. I mis-read the post, as well.

The moral is, always double verify and make sure you actually have a problem before adjusting.

Though, I would bring up the salinity to 1.026 for sure.

Ripside · 08/05/2006, 11:17 PM

Yeah, I started to realize that later. I didn't convert to kDH, so when I looked up the desired range in one of my books, I realized I was already too high.

Already did a top-off with a little salinity. I'll probably spend the next week moving from 1.022 to 1.025/1.026. Don't want to shock anybody in the tank, all my other residents are doing great.

Ripside · 08/08/2006, 02:37 PM

I'm up to 1.025. It was pretty close to 1.023 before, so this isn't (hopefully) too big of a change over 2 days.

08/05/2006, 12:26 PM	#1
Ripside Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 149	BTA's not doing so well Picked up a pair of green BTA's just over a month ago. They looked great at the time, but have slowly been dwindling. Neither of them have any tentacles out at all, and are very pale. One has found a spot it likes, where its foot can go into a hole. The other one is currently hanging upside down from a rock. That one keeps going to the underside of the rock, and after a day or two if he stays I'll flip it over to get him into the light. They're both in the top 1/2 of the tank, under about 320W of PC lighting, actinic and 10K. I've tried direct feeding several times, but the food just floats away. They both still respond to being bothered by retracting or moving, but they're not looking so good. Water params are perfect - 0 for ammonia, nitrite and ntirate, pH 8.2, sg 1.022, calcium 480, temp 78. Any suggestions?

08/05/2006, 03:05 PM	#11
TKByrnes Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Fairfield, PA Posts: 1,331	i have 3 anemones under 320 watts of pc lighting in a 75 gal and they are all out and doing fine. your lighting is good enough to have anemone's IME but you might want to rais your alk. __________________ Baby it was on sale half price I PROMISE!!!! Current Tank Info: 90 gal mixed reef-55 gal sump-mag 9.5 return pump-10 gal frag tank 15 gal refugium. 2x 150 watt HQI outer orbit 4x pc actinic

08/05/2006, 06:06 PM	#15
mystikdragon7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mill Creek, WA Posts: 1,051	I agree with THEOP. DO NOT RAISE YOUR ALK!!! 5.6 is a bit on the high side. But don't do anything yet until you get a proper test kit. The test kit you used is geared for your outdoor pool, not salt water. When you tested your water with the test kit from your LFS what did it say? __________________ Patience is a vitrue Current Tank Info: 60gal reef, 2 175 watt MH, 2 95 watt VHO Actinics, 20 gal sump; 30gal FOWLR, pair of B&W baby perculas

08/05/2006, 01:01 PM	#2
alexk3954 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 374	I have never owned an anemone, but they like lots of light and PC lighting MIGHT not be sufficient. IMO Calcium seems a bit high at 480. Do you know what your alkalinity is?

08/05/2006, 01:26 PM	#3
iantoh Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 122	hi there ripside, good day. im afraid your BTA doesnt seem to be doing well at all, as it looks throughly bleached. anemones arent easy to sustain long term, and though lots of experienced reefers have achieved great success with them, their success often hides the fact that anemones are difficult to sustain. anemones do need alot of light, seeing as we're relying on them to photosynthesize more to make up for the lack of prey matter within our captive systems, but sometimes, it isnt all about light. 320w of PL lightings sounds like quite alot of light, though you didnt mention the height of your aquarium. height has alot of bearing on light intensity, and with PL lights, penetrability isnt as good as halide or T5 type lightings. perhaps you might like to check your alkalinity levels. also, they might very well have been in a bad way when you purchased them and have just succumbed to ill health over this time that youve had them. cheers, ian

08/05/2006, 01:30 PM	#4
ADA33 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 3,131	JMO do you think that the SG is a little low for a reef tank. I think that most reef tanks from what I have seen in these forums is 1.025 to 1.026

08/05/2006, 01:32 PM	#5
ADA33 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 3,131	Forgot to add I have a Sebae under PC and is doing fine. But I did have a situation were it started not to look so good and I changed out the bulbs and all is good again

08/05/2006, 01:56 PM	#6
Ripside Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 149	They looked great when I bought them, and for a coule weeks after. I know they have a slow metabolism, and are slow to react to bad conditions (bad for them anyway). 1) I can raise up to 1.025 easy enough over the next week or so. I know that takes time to move to prevent shock/stress. 2) My tank is 18" deep. The one in the photo is only 8" from the top of the tank, pretty well lit. I know they need lots of light so I was sure to place them up high. But the other one (not pictured) keeps crawling OUT of the light, maybe indicating something else is the problem. 3) I thought 480 was a good target for Ca. 4) Alk - I just went to buy an Alk test kit from the LFS, but it doesn't read real levels, just "hi" and "low." I'll have to order one. My pH is stable between 8.0 and 8.2, so am I incorrectly assuming my Alkalinity must be somewhat okay?

08/05/2006, 02:16 PM	#7
ADA33 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 3,131	Quick question how old are your bulbs the pc lights only last 6-8months IME

08/05/2006, 02:27 PM	#8
Ripside Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 149	about 3 months...

08/05/2006, 02:34 PM	#9
Ripside Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 149	I tried using my swimming pool's test kit for alkalinity... came back at 280ppm. (I was careful not to let anything from the kit touch my tank or anything I use on it, and wash my hands well, as the pool test kit has undoubtedly got chlorine on it). I converted the 280ppm using this calculator below, and that shows a 5.6 meq/l, which sounds pretty close. http://saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/AlkConv.php

08/05/2006, 03:00 PM	#10
alexk3954 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco Posts: 374	the alkalinity seems pretty low to me. I run my reef at around 10-11 alkalinity.

08/05/2006, 03:41 PM	#12
Ripside Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 149	What's the best (easy) way to raise it?

08/05/2006, 03:53 PM	#13
BONDQ Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: So CA Posts: 621	Ripside, ESV's B-Ionic Calcium buffer is considered a good product, and I have friend who uses it regularly. You'll not need the calcium component of it for now. http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...ic.asp?CartId= I would raise the Alk (very slowly)!! But before, I made any change I would buy a Salifert Alkalinity test kit to confirm that you ACTUALLY have an alkalinity problem, first. Always double-verify that you have a problem BEFORE trying to correct it, and never depend on a test kit not designed for the purpose; especially with a parameter change of this importance. Also, I would adjust the salinity to 1.026 (also gradually). If you're not already doing so, I would consider running carbon. Perhaps, you have an unidentifiable toxin from a coral or something else. Carbon could help with that, and rarely hurts.

08/05/2006, 05:14 PM	#14
theop Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 1,493	Don't raise your alk! You have to be careful with the units with alkalinity... 5.6 meq/L is actually high. Alk should be 2.5-4.0 meq/L which is about 7-11 dKH. When alexk3954 said he keeps alk at 10-11, he means dKH. Here is a conversion chart

08/05/2006, 06:19 PM	#16
BONDQ Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: So CA Posts: 621	Agreed. I mis-read the post, as well. The moral is, always double verify and make sure you actually have a problem before adjusting. Though, I would bring up the salinity to 1.026 for sure.

08/05/2006, 11:17 PM	#17
Ripside Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 149	Yeah, I started to realize that later. I didn't convert to kDH, so when I looked up the desired range in one of my books, I realized I was already too high. Already did a top-off with a little salinity. I'll probably spend the next week moving from 1.022 to 1.025/1.026. Don't want to shock anybody in the tank, all my other residents are doing great.

08/08/2006, 02:37 PM	#18
Ripside Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 149	I'm up to 1.025. It was pretty close to 1.023 before, so this isn't (hopefully) too big of a change over 2 days.