Sump, Overflow Question

plutofish · 08/09/2006, 07:03 AM

Hi,

First time at Reef Central!

I've done some research and am starting up a 46g reef tank.
I've decided to go with a Berlin Sump, skimmer, 2lb/gallon live rock/live sand. I have three questions, one is in regards to the sump, one is in regards to the overflow (my tank isn't drilled) and one is in regards to tubing.

1. Sump - I plan on going with the Berlin sump w/sock as opposed to a AGA megaflow. Would I be better off with the megaflow wet/dry setup instead.

2.Overflow - Some have recommended the lifereef overflow (700gph). Is it worth the extra money or should I just go with a CPR or another brand. I also saw a "Hurricane" brand overflow that sounded like the lifereef but was half the price.

3. Tubing - I plan on using a quietone 3000 pump (750gph) for the return line. I was going to use 1 inch tubing with a ball valve on the return line. Considering it's a 46g tank, is one inch too big, would I be better off reducing it to 3/4", etc.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Shooter7 · 08/09/2006, 07:14 AM

To Reef Central

1. I'd say neither...I'd just find an empty tank that would fit where you want it and use that as a sump. Bound to be much cheaper. A local guy just built me a simple acrylic tank to use as my sump and only charged me for the materials he used.

2. If I were relying on an overflow, I wouldn't skimp on it. I'd get the Lifereef.

sjm817 · 08/09/2006, 07:21 AM

The Lifereef and CPR are on the opposite ends of the reliability spectrum. LR is extremely reliable, the CPR is notoriously problematic. The Hurricane is OK (better than CPR), but not as good as LR. The build quality is not very good.

Id use a smaller return pump. That is way too big for a setup that size.

plutofish · 08/09/2006, 07:37 AM

Thanks for the welcome and comments.
O.K. So the lifereef is a done deal. I appreciate your DIY approach to the sump, but just don't have the time. I saw the berlin sump on marinedepot for $130 so not too bad.

In regards to the pump. I'm going up about 5/6 feet. Also can't I just reduce the flow with the ballvalve? Also any comments on the tubing size for a 46g 1", 3/4" etc?

kau_cinta_ku · 08/09/2006, 08:27 AM

i use a mag 9.5 (950gph) on my 46 gal. for my return but i have to dial it back pretty good (but upgrading to bigger tank which is why the bigger pump) so you should be good with your pump. i would go with 1" plumbing to get the most out of your pump as you will loose some flow from it climbing 5/6 feet.

sjm817 · 08/09/2006, 08:40 AM

You need 1.5" to get full flow out of a Mag9.5 (2x outlet size). Plumbing that large is a real pain to work with. You want 3 -5x display volume for return flow which is ~ 150 - 250 GPH. you want to have at least 200 GPH on a siphon overflow to keep air out of the U Tube. An Eheim 1250 would be a really good pump, only uses 28W and is very quiet.

plutofish · 08/09/2006, 08:54 AM

Eheim 1250
Pump Output: 317 gph
Delivery Head: 6`7"

This is the output stated for the pump at marinedepot.
So this means if your going up 6'7" the 1250 still pumps out 317gph?

Also is there any difference between being able to reduce the flow at the pump or using a ball valve?

sjm817 · 08/09/2006, 09:23 AM

No. 317 is @ 0' head. Eheim pumps put out more than their rated specs show. They dont lose a lot of flow due to headloss like a Mag. I'm not a fan of using too big a pump, and then choking it back with small plumbing or a valve. Using the right size pump unrestricted is a better idea IMO. If you want to use a Mag, I'd use a Mag3 or 5

plutofish · 08/09/2006, 09:29 AM

sjm817,
So did you mean the 1260 and not the 1250. Don't most sump setups have between 4 and 6 feet head?

sjm817 · 08/09/2006, 09:48 AM

I run a 1260 in my 90G display/40G sump setup. I would not run that big a pump on a 46 tank.

Running too big a return pump is a very common mistake.

plutofish · 08/09/2006, 10:24 AM

sjm817,
What size tubing would you recommend for my setup. I would like to keep noise to a minimum. I'm still alittle confused because the 1250 eheim is showing no pressure at 5/6 feet.

sjm817 · 08/09/2006, 10:32 AM

I never used a 1250, but people use them all the time for returns. I've seen them used on 120 and 180G tanks. They work. I'd use 1" for the drain. The 1250 has a barb fitting. I'd use whatever fits on it.

plutofish · 08/09/2006, 02:46 PM

What do you guys thing of the QuietOne pumps. Are they really the "quiet ones".

sjm817. When you say drain you mean the return, right?

sjm817 · 08/09/2006, 09:15 PM

Drain is from display to sump. Return is sump to display. There have been many posts restart problems with QO pumps and not being all that quiet.

08/09/2006, 07:03 AM	#1
plutofish Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6	Sump, Overflow Question Hi, First time at Reef Central! I've done some research and am starting up a 46g reef tank. I've decided to go with a Berlin Sump, skimmer, 2lb/gallon live rock/live sand. I have three questions, one is in regards to the sump, one is in regards to the overflow (my tank isn't drilled) and one is in regards to tubing. 1. Sump - I plan on going with the Berlin sump w/sock as opposed to a AGA megaflow. Would I be better off with the megaflow wet/dry setup instead. 2.Overflow - Some have recommended the lifereef overflow (700gph). Is it worth the extra money or should I just go with a CPR or another brand. I also saw a "Hurricane" brand overflow that sounded like the lifereef but was half the price. 3. Tubing - I plan on using a quietone 3000 pump (750gph) for the return line. I was going to use 1 inch tubing with a ball valve on the return line. Considering it's a 46g tank, is one inch too big, would I be better off reducing it to 3/4", etc. Thanks in advance for any advice.

08/09/2006, 07:14 AM	#2
Shooter7 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tolono, IL Posts: 6,754	*To Reef Central* 1. I'd say neither...I'd just find an empty tank that would fit where you want it and use that as a sump. Bound to be much cheaper. A local guy just built me a simple acrylic tank to use as my sump and only charged me for the materials he used. 2. If I were relying on an overflow, I wouldn't skimp on it. I'd get the Lifereef. __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 10 years salty - standard 29g reef - moved from 120 gal reef, 2x250w Reeflux 10k's on ARO electronics and VHO super actinics on Icecap ballast, 2xTunze 6060, MSX 200 skimmer, GEO 612 Ca reactor, mag 12 return

08/09/2006, 07:21 AM	#3
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	The Lifereef and CPR are on the opposite ends of the reliability spectrum. LR is extremely reliable, the CPR is notoriously problematic. The Hurricane is OK (better than CPR), but not as good as LR. The build quality is not very good. Id use a smaller return pump. That is way too big for a setup that size. __________________ - Scott

08/09/2006, 08:40 AM	#6
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	You need 1.5" to get full flow out of a Mag9.5 (2x outlet size). Plumbing that large is a real pain to work with. You want 3 -5x display volume for return flow which is ~ 150 - 250 GPH. you want to have at least 200 GPH on a siphon overflow to keep air out of the U Tube. An Eheim 1250 would be a really good pump, only uses 28W and is very quiet. __________________ - Scott

08/09/2006, 09:23 AM	#8
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	No. 317 is @ 0' head. Eheim pumps put out more than their rated specs show. They dont lose a lot of flow due to headloss like a Mag. I'm not a fan of using too big a pump, and then choking it back with small plumbing or a valve. Using the right size pump unrestricted is a better idea IMO. If you want to use a Mag, I'd use a Mag3 or 5 __________________ - Scott

08/09/2006, 07:37 AM	#4
plutofish Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6	Thanks for the welcome and comments. O.K. So the lifereef is a done deal. I appreciate your DIY approach to the sump, but just don't have the time. I saw the berlin sump on marinedepot for $130 so not too bad. In regards to the pump. I'm going up about 5/6 feet. Also can't I just reduce the flow with the ballvalve? Also any comments on the tubing size for a 46g 1", 3/4" etc?

08/09/2006, 08:27 AM	#5
kau_cinta_ku Moved On Join Date: May 2005 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,669	i use a mag 9.5 (950gph) on my 46 gal. for my return but i have to dial it back pretty good (but upgrading to bigger tank which is why the bigger pump) so you should be good with your pump. i would go with 1" plumbing to get the most out of your pump as you will loose some flow from it climbing 5/6 feet.

08/09/2006, 08:54 AM	#7
plutofish Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6	Eheim 1250 Pump Output: 317 gph Delivery Head: 6`7" This is the output stated for the pump at marinedepot. So this means if your going up 6'7" the 1250 still pumps out 317gph? Also is there any difference between being able to reduce the flow at the pump or using a ball valve?

08/09/2006, 09:29 AM	#9
plutofish Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6	sjm817, So did you mean the 1260 and not the 1250. Don't most sump setups have between 4 and 6 feet head?

08/09/2006, 09:48 AM	#10
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I run a 1260 in my 90G display/40G sump setup. I would not run that big a pump on a 46 tank. Running too big a return pump is a very common mistake. __________________ - Scott

08/09/2006, 10:24 AM	#11
plutofish Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6	sjm817, What size tubing would you recommend for my setup. I would like to keep noise to a minimum. I'm still alittle confused because the 1250 eheim is showing no pressure at 5/6 feet.

08/09/2006, 10:32 AM	#12
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I never used a 1250, but people use them all the time for returns. I've seen them used on 120 and 180G tanks. They work. I'd use 1" for the drain. The 1250 has a barb fitting. I'd use whatever fits on it. __________________ - Scott

08/09/2006, 02:46 PM	#13
plutofish Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6	What do you guys thing of the QuietOne pumps. Are they really the "quiet ones". sjm817. When you say drain you mean the return, right?

08/09/2006, 09:15 PM	#14
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Drain is from display to sump. Return is sump to display. There have been many posts restart problems with QO pumps and not being all that quiet. __________________ - Scott