More questions about ICH!

ReefWreak · 08/13/2006, 11:51 PM

Okay, so I've had 1 chromis in my 120 for a month and a half now. It started as 4 of them, but I went on vacation, and the other 3 disappeared. Last week, I bought a healthy looking Maroon (or tomato, I forget which one, one stripe, tomato red), and now he's got a few TINY white spots on him. At the LFS he didn't have anything showing on him, and he had been there in captivity for at least a week.

Now he has been in my tank for a week, and he has VERY VERY tiny white spots on him. I've seen pictures of ICH everywhere, and they're always larger spots on fish, even smaller fish. Is it still Ich?

The chromis shows no signs of distress, or spots. I have not seen the clown itch anywhere against rock or sand or anything, which i've heard they do when they've got ich because of the surface irritation. I've got a cleaner shrimp in my tank, but I'm doubting that he's cleaning them off unfortunatly.

NEXT!

What is the easiest way to catch a fish with a net. I know I should use clear plastic containers and such, but it's just not available to me right now.

I've tried baiting the net with mysis (which are usual feeding standards in my tank, and the fish readily eat it) and they still ran from the net.

I tried while the clown was sleeping against the overflow, and almost had him but the net was bent. So now my main issue is catching the chromis. He is really quick, and doesn't sleep soundly at all. As soon as a net hits the water, he's outta there.

If I leave the fish in the display tank, are they doomed to die?

Freed · 08/13/2006, 11:56 PM

What are you going to do with the fish if/when you catch them? Ich will more than likely live in the tank for longer than you will have fish in there unless you QT the fish in another tank and do hyposalinity for at least 4-6 weeks. You then will have to leave the main tank fishless for the same period so the ich won't have anything to feed off of and the ich will then starve and die off.

ReefWreak · 08/13/2006, 11:58 PM

I'm going to QT them into a spare 10g that I have, and do copper dips on them at first, then hyposalinate the QT tank after that.

I'm cool with leaving the main display fishless, as it's a relativly new tank with nothing other than cleanup crew and a condy anemone who disappeared...

reefnetworth · 08/14/2006, 12:01 AM

good luck, i call them "damnsels" you can treat the ICK without removing fish. (yes, that is what your fish has) most treatments last 24-48 hrs. in the tank, 20% water change and done. they make fish traps, www.marinedepot.com has them. good luck & REEF-ON!

ReefWreak · 08/14/2006, 12:07 AM

How could I treat without removing the fish? Lowering the salinity of the display? Won't it negativly effect the invertibrates in the tank and hitchhikers on the LR?

ReefWreak · 08/14/2006, 12:20 AM

Okay, reading in the disease forum, it looks like if I try soaking the mysis shrimp in garlic extreme or something first, it will increase the chances of the immune system of the fish kicking the ich by itself, especially since it isn't very heavily infected (if it is at all), however I'm still interested in what others have to say.

Freed · 08/14/2006, 01:13 AM

What are these copper dips you speak of? I have never heard of them before. I have heard of freshwater dips but that does no good for ich. Hypo must be used for the 4-6 weeks period. Copper treatments in QT or main display are more of a danger as you must keep constant check on copper levels. Copper will kill inverts, corals as well.

ReefWreak · 08/14/2006, 01:34 AM

I saw that freshwater dips of 8 minutes exactly provide relief from the adult stage of the ich which are living inside of the body of the fish. The copper is to kill all forms of the ich. I believe the FW dip is 1.009 salinity, where the extended hypo is 1.019 or so. I don't have a copper test, and the LFS didn't suggest such, so I don't really know how I should go about the testing. I'm still working on trying to catch the fish.

I'm still going to try garlic tomorrow and see if it helps him.

Freed · 08/14/2006, 07:23 AM

Stop, erase everything from your memory banks. If you plan on doing hyposalinity, freshwater dips are not needed and cause more undo stress than any help that they are "supposed" to do. Hyposalinity is 1.009 for 4-6 weeks. Copper is not needed when doing hypo and is dangerous if mixed in conjunction with hypo. Still don't know if you plan on doing these "copper dips" as you stated before but please don't. HYPO IS THE EASIEST SOLUTION TO THE ICH and the safest, just make sure you test your salinity on a daily basis with a refractometer unlike copper which you must test a couple/few times a day.

Garlic is a fairy tale and it only lives in fantasy land so it is a waste of time and there have been no studies done to back up its crockery.

08/13/2006, 11:51 PM	#1
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	More questions about ICH! Okay, so I've had 1 chromis in my 120 for a month and a half now. It started as 4 of them, but I went on vacation, and the other 3 disappeared. Last week, I bought a healthy looking Maroon (or tomato, I forget which one, one stripe, tomato red), and now he's got a few TINY white spots on him. At the LFS he didn't have anything showing on him, and he had been there in captivity for at least a week. Now he has been in my tank for a week, and he has VERY VERY tiny white spots on him. I've seen pictures of ICH everywhere, and they're always larger spots on fish, even smaller fish. Is it still Ich? The chromis shows no signs of distress, or spots. I have not seen the clown itch anywhere against rock or sand or anything, which i've heard they do when they've got ich because of the surface irritation. I've got a cleaner shrimp in my tank, but I'm doubting that he's cleaning them off unfortunatly. NEXT! What is the easiest way to catch a fish with a net. I know I should use clear plastic containers and such, but it's just not available to me right now. I've tried baiting the net with mysis (which are usual feeding standards in my tank, and the fish readily eat it) and they still ran from the net. I tried while the clown was sleeping against the overflow, and almost had him but the net was bent. So now my main issue is catching the chromis. He is really quick, and doesn't sleep soundly at all. As soon as a net hits the water, he's outta there. If I leave the fish in the display tank, are they doomed to die?

08/13/2006, 11:56 PM	#2
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	What are you going to do with the fish if/when you catch them? Ich will more than likely live in the tank for longer than you will have fish in there unless you QT the fish in another tank and do hyposalinity for at least 4-6 weeks. You then will have to leave the main tank fishless for the same period so the ich won't have anything to feed off of and the ich will then starve and die off. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

08/14/2006, 12:01 AM	#4
reefnetworth Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 3,810	good luck, i call them "damnsels" you can treat the ICK without removing fish. (yes, that is what your fish has) most treatments last 24-48 hrs. in the tank, 20% water change and done. they make fish traps, www.marinedepot.com has them. good luck & REEF-ON! __________________ GIVE A MAN A FISH, YOU FEED HIM FOR A DAY. TEACH A MAN TO FISH, HE FEEDS HIMSELF FOR LIFE. (NEVER, underestimate another man's greed) Current Tank Info: SPS dominated barebottom display with BB sump since 2005, most consistant parameters in 19+ years of reefkeeping.

08/14/2006, 01:13 AM	#7
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	What are these copper dips you speak of? I have never heard of them before. I have heard of freshwater dips but that does no good for ich. Hypo must be used for the 4-6 weeks period. Copper treatments in QT or main display are more of a danger as you must keep constant check on copper levels. Copper will kill inverts, corals as well. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

08/14/2006, 07:23 AM	#9
Freed It's what it's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 41° 2' 45" N 85° 8' 43" W Posts: 7,579	Stop, erase everything from your memory banks. If you plan on doing hyposalinity, freshwater dips are not needed and cause more undo stress than any help that they are "supposed" to do. Hyposalinity is 1.009 for 4-6 weeks. Copper is not needed when doing hypo and is dangerous if mixed in conjunction with hypo. Still don't know if you plan on doing these "copper dips" as you stated before but please don't. HYPO IS THE EASIEST SOLUTION TO THE ICH and the safest, just make sure you test your salinity on a daily basis with a refractometer unlike copper which you must test a couple/few times a day. Garlic is a fairy tale and it only lives in fantasy land so it is a waste of time and there have been no studies done to back up its crockery. __________________ Freed Current Tank Info: 180gal(1120 watts of MH/VHO light), 60gal "sump", Deltec 601 calcium reactor, Euro Reef CS8-3+ skimmer, 20 gallon QT

08/13/2006, 11:58 PM	#3
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	I'm going to QT them into a spare 10g that I have, and do copper dips on them at first, then hyposalinate the QT tank after that. I'm cool with leaving the main display fishless, as it's a relativly new tank with nothing other than cleanup crew and a condy anemone who disappeared...

08/14/2006, 12:07 AM	#5
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	How could I treat without removing the fish? Lowering the salinity of the display? Won't it negativly effect the invertibrates in the tank and hitchhikers on the LR?

08/14/2006, 12:20 AM	#6
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	Okay, reading in the disease forum, it looks like if I try soaking the mysis shrimp in garlic extreme or something first, it will increase the chances of the immune system of the fish kicking the ich by itself, especially since it isn't very heavily infected (if it is at all), however I'm still interested in what others have to say.

08/14/2006, 01:34 AM	#8
ReefWreak Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Astoria, NYC Posts: 10,159	I saw that freshwater dips of 8 minutes exactly provide relief from the adult stage of the ich which are living inside of the body of the fish. The copper is to kill all forms of the ich. I believe the FW dip is 1.009 salinity, where the extended hypo is 1.019 or so. I don't have a copper test, and the LFS didn't suggest such, so I don't really know how I should go about the testing. I'm still working on trying to catch the fish. I'm still going to try garlic tomorrow and see if it helps him.