T5's vs MH, my new thoughts on the matter...

[RokleM]

My approaching year old 58 is 100% T5's. As many have seen, my new 180 is feed by dual 400w MH's.

I still say T5's are a great technology, but having used them for a year I think we still have a TON to learn. I love the cost, the low heat, the color combinations, etc. My corals have grown well under the lights. I bought a 3 headed hammer from Zeppelin maybe a half year ago, and it split to 6 three or so months back, and is the process of splitting to 12.

Downside, my colors of my corals have gradually gone away (there are a number of threads in the forums here, THIS being one of the best ).

I'll give you an example...

I was lucky enough to recently see Porky's tank (has to be one of the craziest softie/LPS tanks I've ever seen, VERY sweet). I finagled another frogspawn torch combo off of him last night to compare/contrast as it grows under MH's instead of my T5's over the next year or so. When the new frag started opening, I realized how much T5's have changed the colors of the old one.

Going way back, here is the original picture I took back when I got the first frag:


Although a different camera, different settings, different photoshop work... all in all it looks almost identical to the frag I got yesterday even though the new one is stretched out loosing a little of the dark colors:


Now.... take a look at how the original frag is doing after 6 months under T5's:


You can imediatly see the color has lightened significantly. Is it in bad shape? I'd say no way. As a matter of fact, it just got done with it's first major split. It eats well, and I have no reason to think it has issues.

Looking back on my old pictures, there are a few frags that have this same symptom.

Long story short, although there are exceptions out there, and although corals may grow GREAT under T5's, the technology still has a long ways to go because we're obviously missing SOMETHING the corals need (or giving them something they don't want). Is it color spectrum, too much intensity, too little intensity, who knows...

Now, don't think I'm 100% MH yet at this point either. I bleached some SPS frags that were DOWN on the SAND, while my MH's were 14" above the tank (i.e. 16" above water). I still have some to learn there.

I'm thinking about getting a new lighting setup for my 58g 3' wide tank now I've had some SPS and such under MH, and have not yet noticed any color difference. I moved one of my "bleached" (ok, so it's not bleached per say, just some color loss) hammers to the new tank under the MH to see how quickly and how much of its color will return.

Think/reply as you will. I'm no MH fan or T5 hater. Just take it as food for thought.

[RokleM]

FYI as well, this seems to be mostly impacting really soft items (i.e. brain, hammer, frogspawn, torch, etc). There seems to be NO change on leathers, zoo's, xenia, and definitely not acan's.

[porky]

Very interesting Eric, I would almost not recognize the coral in that last pic... the colors have lighten up significantly. The brown and the green part of the coral are almost translucent.
And I think the jury is in. T5's have a while to go to be on par w/MH for your primary light. I've always thought they would be great for supplemental lighting...
I've seen the numbers on the T5 PAR and my gut tells me the difference is in the shimmer

[RokleM]

Yeah, the T5's can have great PAR or pretty low depending on the setup. Who knows.

Interesting update though. I saw the 2 headed hammer I moved downstairs which I've had for 4-5 months and hasn't had any growth/movement under the T5's has started to split after being under the MH for a couple of weeks. Maybe a coincidence, maybe not.

I need to take another picture of that hammer and see what the differences in color are (if there are any yet).

[szwab]

good info Eric I like to see before and after pics really helps. I should start taking more pics since I never do seem to remember how things "looked"

[RokleM]

That was exactly my issue. I realized the color had changed, but until I got the new frag and dug through the old pictures, I had no idea how drastically.

[bond007069]

Interesting stuff there.

May people are finding with lower nutrient tanks, 400 watters are overkill for sps, and definently with lps.

LPS lite with MH's dont do the best (too much light IMO)

So T5's are a neat alternative and prolly better suited to your LPS, hence thats why they look better

IMHO, T5 are great for supplement with MH for SPS and best used alone for LPS tanks

[TOURKID]

Oh I hope you guys can help me with this one. Im looking for this topic!!!

I HAVE a t5. 8 bulb, 440 watts I think. NOT in use

I have 1 250watt mh thats hanging over my 45 gallon tank

Im buying a 125 gallon tank.
Do I buy another 250 watt mh and hang one on each side?
Or use the t5 I already have?
Saves me money.....

Tank has 3 btas, lps, and a few rics & polyps.

As of now my torch is bleaching out pretty bad. Just moved it to the very bottom of the tank.

I was at phishys and they had 2 of the same favias. 1 under mh and 1 under t5's. the one under t5's looked very bland. When taken and set under the mh, it looked great.

I donno what to do!!!! any suggestions/opinions?

thanks,
maggie

[RokleM]

If you're saying that you physically move a coral from the T5's to a MH and it immediately looks great, then you likely have a bad bulb combination giving you an unpleasant look.

This issue is long term slow loss of color in the coral itself that may or may not return when put under different lighting again. Some who have switched to MH see colors return over a extended period.

[Mantis]

T-5's are extremely strong/bright lights.

Your coral is just slightly bleached, and is probably just a little over illuminated. Over my 75 gallon LPS tank I have 8 t-5 bulbs, 4 actinic and 4 10K/daylight. I'm only running 2 of the 10K currently because running all 4 10K/daylight is just too much light for some of my LPS.

One other possibility, low nutrients can also cause a lightening of coral tissue. The zooxanthellae populations will become less dense in a super low nutrient environment ,which will cause an overall lightening of the coral's tissue. That is why SPS corals are more colorful in a low nutrient tank, less of the golden brown zooxanthellae to mask a corals colorful UV protective pigments

[RokleM]

Originally posted by Mantis
T-5's are extremely strong/bright lights.

Your coral is just slightly bleached, and is probably just a little over illuminated. Over my 75 gallon LPS tank I have 8 t-5 bulbs, 4 actinic and 4 10K/daylight. I'm only running 2 of the 10K currently because running all 4 10K/daylight is just too much light for some of my LPS.

One other possibility, low nutrients can also cause a lightening of coral tissue. The zooxanthellae populations will become less dense in a super low nutrient environment ,which will cause an overall lightening of the coral's tissue. That is why SPS corals are more colorful in a low nutrient tank, less of the golden brown zooxanthellae to mask a corals colorful UV protective pigments

No offense, but I highly doubt it's due to the intensity of the light. Yes T5's are bright, but brighter than in Porky's tank where the colony is 8-10" or so almost directly under a 250w MH? My frag is 12-15" from the T5's. I find that hard to believe. As well, it has happened to corals that are on the sandbed and in the corners of the tank where lighting is a lot less intense. One of the hairy mushrooms is a good example. It had the same symptoms on the bottom of the tank as well as near the top. I've seen these in a much more intense MH setup without the issue.

If you go through the thread, you'll see people have seen issues on all types of setups from way too much light to very little light. Your bulb combination is a bit different than normal too.

Although I skim like crazy, I don't pretend my fish aren't fat. Let's put it this way, it looks like both of my neon goby's are pregnant. Low nutrients are likely not the issue either.

If you guys get time, that thread is really worth a read. It will cause you to re-think a lot of the assumptions that are in place.

[bond007069]

You skim like crazy, you prolly have low nutrients, this is independant of overfed fish IMO

[RokleM]

Originally posted by bond007069
You skim like crazy, you prolly have low nutrients, this is independant of overfed fish IMO

It's all relative. I have a 30" GEO that works pretty hard on 315ish total gallons. None of my SPS have shown signs of browning at this point and have remained full of color. As well, most of the corals are target fed once or twice a week even though most of them don't "technically" require it.

[TOURKID]

I donno. Im doing research and I got the same response in the lighting forum.

That 2 250 watt mh's wouldent be near as strong as 1 8bulb t5. They are melting mushrooms bleaching lps and unless you use much lower k's your going to have problems.

I was told with my nems, lps, & softies.. that a t5 would be a nightmare... Im going to do some more research and figure out if I can use a variaty of bulbs to counter act it... but Im leaning towards selling the t5 and getting another mh...

[porky]

I don't think it's an intensity issue, at least not too much intensity. Some folks in that thread might be onto something, they are thinking that the T5 having the wrong spectrum might be the issue.
This makes more sense than anything else I have read. Especially considering that MH users who supplement with T5 blue bulbs have some really nice tanks with no fading colors using a combo lighting scheme.