American Reef Lighting vs Japanese Reef Lighting - Here it is!

[absolutc]

I want to thank skipper for bringing the Japanese tank thread back up. If it wasn't for that - I probably would not have the information I have now.

Also, a special thanks goes out to Yasuhiro for taking the time and answering my questions! Also the owner and keeper of http://www.reefaqua.com (Blue Lagoon) Thanks alot!

For anyone not up to date on this, let me give a brief explanation. There was some debate on what the Japanese used for lighting and the specifics on how they did it. I decided to do some research and came to my own conclusions. However, I wanted to know more - so I dug deeper and found what I was looking for. Thanks to a fellow reefkeeper in Japan - he has given us an insight into their lighting techniques. Below is an excerpt of his diary that he put up for me. I hope everyone gets a chance to read it. I beleive it will change the way we look at lighting from now and into the future. At least, I know I will. Well here it is!



2002.06.05
Since there was a question from a foreign reef keeper today, I explain the lighting
system of my tank.
Lower photograph is a simple explanation of the lighting system of my tank.



The lighting currently used for my tank is as follows.
3x 250watt Metal Halide Lamp(doubled ended bulb) with magnetic ballast,it's Kelvin rating is 20K-25K,made in Japanese lump maker. This light looks pale blue. This commercial reflector is used for the lighting of the outer wall of a building and magnetic ballast is standard type.
2x 250watt Metal Halide Lamps with magnetic ballast, it's Kelvin rating is 14K. This bulb was made in German. Light of this bulb looks pale,too.

3x 150watt Metal Halide Lamps with electrical ballast. This bulb is a screw formula type. A lens is a wide angle and has become half reflective mirror type. A mirror is designed to pass only required wavelength, UV and infrared rays also emit it back.
I use 2x blue light type and 1x red light type.

50watt & 75watt standard hallogen lamps made by 'USIO' are also used. Because of follows,with the lighting of only high kelvin rating metal halide lamps a tank looks blue too much and slight UV is required to get rich color of coral.

When metal hallide lamps tuned off at night, I use standard (not VHO) fluorescent light.
I used two type of fluorescent light bulbs, RB37 and BB450.
RB37 is fluorescent light which is 650nm-690nm peak enhanced and its light looks purple.
BB450 is fluorescent light which is 420nm-470nm peak enhanced amd its light looks deep blue.
There are two formula of bulb, straight type 20w-40w and ball type 27w.
I use 2x BB450 20watt,2x RB37 20watt,3x BB450 27w(pendant type reflector) and 1x RB37 27watt bulb.

Left Side of Tank


Right Side of Tank


Electrical ballast for 150watt metal hallide bulb


magnetic ballast for 250watt metal hallide bulb


250watt doubled ended bulb made in German (10K),150watt screw type metal hallide bulb
made in Japan and USIO's hallogen red bulb.


The ceiling of the room with a tank is a sun parlor, and, in a certain grade, natural sun light shines during a half of day. When light is strong in summer, it adjusts using a shade




The way to get rich colored coral which I concider is as follows,
Use two or more metal halide lamps with the high kelvin rating.
Keep the level of PO4 and NO3 low.
Irradiate moderate quantity of UV according to the depth which the coral inhabited.
Red color metal hallide lamps make deep color of corals such as Seriatopora hystrix,Stylophora pistillata,Pocillopora damicornis and some kinds of Acropora. However, as for red MH lamps, influence changes greatly with inhabited

These are simple explanation of my reef tank lighting.



Again, a special thanks goes out to Yasuhiro for taking the time to explain his lighting. Alot of you I am sure will have questions. I have an email to Yasuhiro asking for a little more information and specifics on a few of his lights, the red halogen and red metal halides, the screw type metal halide as well. I am sure he will get back with me.

I hope everyone will find use of this thread and it won't end up at the bottom for at least a little bit I for one am going to find out as much nfo on these lights and where to purchase them. As I figured, the Japanese are a little more advanced and have a different concept in reefing. I will explain this later.

ENJOY!

Kris

[nardis]

Kris I am glad that you took the matter of the lights as far as you have. Yasuhiro has a great tank and is very good at answering questions about it. I am glad that you posted his response, as it will help destroy some of the myths about some of the tanks that we see on Japanese sites. The extra UV seems very interesting to me and if the set up doesn't cost too much I may give it a try. Thanks again for sticking to it

Nardis

[whirley]

Holly COW !!!



I'd hate to see the electricity bill !!!

[bluereefs]

Great and unbelivable,wow that is lighting system.
Mr.Yasuhiro reef tank is magic,I have his web page bookmarks for months.
Once again good works AbsolutC.

[absolutc]

I am just glad somone is reading it Yes, I find the UV very interesting myself. It appears that UV in moderate/small amounts gives the corals their colors. More information and test would be needed to prove that, but trying a setup like that wouldnt hurt.

The main thing I see thats different between US and JAP tanks is this..

US tanks mix their corals and throw 10/20/50/6.5k lights on them with som pc or vho supplimentation and call it done.

JAP tanks on the other hand, seperate their corals, softies on one side (lower) sps/hards on the other side (higher) to mimic nature. In doing so, they have the ability to tailor their lighting schemes to the corals. SPS get yellow/orange light and are closer to the surface, softies get more blue/violet light and are deeper in the tank. Then there is a middle region that gets a little of both.

I find it pretty awsome. It also makes total sense! Oh, and the results are just breathtaking!

Anyways, off to do some more work!

[Morgan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by absolutc
[B] Yes, I find the UV very interesting myself. It appears that UV in moderate/small amounts gives the corals their colors. More information and test would be needed to prove that]


Actually absolutc, I is a well known and long proven fact that corals color up due to UV. This is there sun block so to speak. No test needed.

[Jimbo]

That is either the most incredible lighting system ever, or the most overdone lighting system ever.
I wonder which one it is?
Jim

[absolutc]

Morgan -

If that is true, why am I just not hearing about it? How come its not told to newcomers?

[RooFish]

I dunno, it seems kinda overkill to me. How big of a tank is that over?

[Morgan]

Good question. I guess I should not generalize by saying "corals" color up due to UV. However, this is true with most SPS spiecies. I believe the first place I ever read about this is in The Reef Aquarium Volume 1 by J. Charles Delbeek Julian Sprung. Sorry I cannot point to anyother text, I read for content and never remember the authors or such. Do a search and you will find allot of info on this subject. Here is another read.


http://www.aquarium.net/0497/0497_2.shtml

[Anemone]

I like the split biotope idea, but like some others feel the lighting might be a bit of overkill.

1700 watts of MH, 188 watts of fluorescent, and 125 watts of "red" halogen lighting would seem would seem to be more than "adequate" to get good coloration (regardless of UV properties of various bulbs). Now, split that into 18 bulbs, and you're talking a real PITA lighting arrangement (and this coming from a guy who sticks extra lighting in almost every nook and cranny in a hood ).

Looking at that lighting, my first thought was "stage lighting," and perhaps I'm not that far from the truth. Personally, I'm satisfied with a couple of MH bulbs with actinic supplementation, or just VHO or PC lighting. For my style, I'd think that tank could have been done just fine with 3x400 MH and a couple of actinic VHO tubes (how American of me! )

But, reef keeping is an art - and art is all about different approaches. Thanks for the research absolutc.

Kevin

[ravenmore]

a lot of time the colorfull pigments in corals and in clams act as "sunscreen" and protect the coral from UV light. It makes sense that supplementing some UV could cause the corals to color up. I'd be curious as to what Eric would think about that. I'd also be curious as to what health issues it might have to the aquarist. UV rays - it goes without saying - can be dangerous.

Bottom line though - this guy has a TON of light over his tank. Interesting theories they have - but I wonder if the different lights do what he thinks they do or if his result are simply from having a lot of light.

Thanks for showing us this.

-Mike

[gas4544]

It also seems to me like all that light could be put to better use with horizontal reflectors. There's more than one way to skin a cat...

[Frick-n-Frags]

I wonder if those lights were mounted lower (and horizontally, as someone has mentioned)if he couldn't lose some of them and still maintain that level of light? Plus if he did some total light output math, he probably could replace several smaller lamps with a single larger lamp (400 watter, as also already mentioned ) and clean it up some more. Are there laws in Japan against mounting lights horizontally , even the flours are in vert mount spot reflectors.

Also, if that is some X hundred gallon tank, like over 200, it is not such a big overkill and actually looks like a rather inefficient setup overall. I have an Iwasaki on one end of a 50 long so I can keep mushrooms and such at the other end. There are also 2 4' VHO actinics on that tank so there's your two stage lighting. Been there...

But I am not bashing him, I just am not all that blown away either. I still think Phil's tank in MI with some 1500watts of MH over like a 72g bowfront is the most rad setup I have ever seen.
Still, I always love seeing another lighting implementation that obviously works, and that makes that guy just as right about his lighting as anyone else is. Thanks for sharing this and letting us gnaw on it a little.

[absolutc]

Frick-n-Frags -

Would you mind posting or giving me a url of your site, since you "been there"?

Nardis -

Thanks Yasuhiro seems to be a very nice guy and also appears to have his ducks in a row! He has detailed everything about his tank. His positives, his negatives. Everything. I have a few more questions that I sent him and hope to hear from him soon.


As far as the lighting goes, it looks like some of the people here aren't looking past the dynamics of it. They see money, waste and too much work. Let me try and break it down for those that need a little help

I don't know exactly what makes his corals look the way they do, other than the fact that he has said a moderate amount of UV is what causes this. I have never read this anywhere until I found an article from Borneman (sp) - He touched on the subject but never got indepth. Then Yasuhiro wrote about it and then it made sense. Now, sure there it is unclear as to whether the amount of light he has or the amount of UV that is given off, is causing the corals to color. The only way to find out next to asking him, is to try it. To me, it may be to much light. However, how do I know when I don't have all the specifics?

Next, some of you are touting that his "stage" lights seem inefficient at directing the light. Actually, they are more efficient than you think. I visited another japanese website where the owner of the tank ran tests on how much light was emitted from these "stage" like devices. He also noted that light was not being properly reflected due to the gap at the base of the bubl, where it screws in. So he built a mini reflector and placed it inside and fixed this flaw. He retested and saw a vast improvement.

The lighting equipment being used, in my opinion is superior to ours. Some of you will argue that its not, but prove me wrong The reason I say this is - With the arangement Yasuhiro has, he has the ability to move, adjust and put the light directly where its needed. Little to no waste - IMO. He can put 150w 12k on one section of coral, 150w 20k on another section of corals, 6.5k on his sps that if you note, are higher in the tank. He also can add some color with the red halogens. He has the ability to make his corals feel like home. No where in america have I seen this. He also does not use any mogul based halides. He uses either DE or Screw type - medium base. Which I also find intresting.

His tank setup also makes more sense than american tanks. Again, his tank has SPS/Hard corals on one side and Softies on the other. This is what seperates us from them. With that setup, he then has the ability to offer his SPS' and hard corals natural daylight with a shot of uv. In response to this, his corals will color up to protect themselves from the UV light. Now this is based on what I/We think. I don't know if its 100% true, then again, nothing with the hobby is. The next section he has is his softies. Again, the same rules apply here. He has the ability to offer them more Blue light that they are used to, without hindering the requirements of his SPS. Since water reflects, refracts light, blue/violet are the main items to penetrate into the deeper parts of the ocean. UV is present, but in very small quantities. Then there is a middle zone. This zone is where you have a mixture of light. Clams would be my first choice here and perhaps a few other medium light corals.

Assuming what he is saying is true, he has recreated what nature does best.

Now, the american tank, again - in my opinion, leaves alot to be desired. For the most part, we have mixed tanks. We also have mixed light. We put a couple 250/400 halides on, and maybe some 03 supplimentation and we like that, but - we are not really recreating nature. We are not catering to our corals in the manner that is seen in the japanese tanks. We are capable of so much more. However, do we want to go that far? Are we too cheap to try? Or are we to quick to write it off and continue on with the american way?

From what I have read, just now are we looking into and using what the germans have been doing for quite some time now. HQI - DE bulbs. Again, I don't know how recent that is, but I don't read alot of RC members with HQI DE bulbs. But it does appear these bulbs are more effecient and better for our corals, than the standard mogul type halides we are using. My recent poll shows more users using 10k/20k medium base bulbs than anything. Why? Do you know why you are using them? Is it because thats the general consensus? Do they seem brighter and better for your corals? Who knows at this point. Nothing is set in stone.

This is just me, but I don't live my life by some of these books and publications that have been put out by "respected reefers". Unless they are constantly evaluating and researching the changes and new technologies, they too are not 100% accurate on their words. Nor is it set in stone. I am one for change and moving ahead. Alot of people are not and prefer to go "by the book" - not me. Its experimentation, change and acceptance that has and will bring us further. I hope that everyone sees this thread as a LEARNING thread and not a negative one. Thats what its here for. Learning, research and eventually trial!


Now, I am moving along in researching now, as to where to find these bulbs. If anyone wants information on that, let me know. If not, I will go at it on my own and post the results in the future. I hope everyone has enjoyed this as much as I have and also has answered any mysteries that may have been lurking around.
I will post more information as I get it.

Kris.

[africangrey]

Glad to see this thread crawl back to its life.
-A

[turtlespd]

Who are we to say he has too much light? I have seen and i know others on here have seen 60g tank with 1600w of lighting..even 10g tanks with 250w of lighting and you gotta admit those on who have put more light over their tanks, have seem to have gotten better results than those of us who dont. Give the guy a break..his tank is stunning. So are some of us saying if he came up to use and offer a straight trade you would back off? humm i would like to see a poll on that..Absoluct..You are the man!!

Paul

[Grandis]

Ok, is the light responsible for the color because of the UV or because of the reflection of that particular sectrum from that particular coral?Hehe, I think the UV do not play with that, but the color of the bulb (reflection). Instead feed and try to reproduce the natural biological environment, wich is very hard, put a red light is easier sometimes. We neet to pay attention to this stuff too. Is the coral healthy, or just beautifull under those many bulbs? Long therm is important too.
Grandis.

[Frick-n-Frags]

At some point we need some of the coral heavyweights in here. UV resistant compounds are typically transparent on corals if I understood the current research correctly.

That guy uses spots, so what if someone's tank is packed and he needs even coverage (like the sun shines in the ocean, God doesn't do stage lighting, God uses one 20 gazillion watt,true several million K, Iwaradiushiobuschke metal fusion bulb) ?
I could redesign that system to put his spot intensity of light over the whole tank and so could many other "Americans" who are really into their lighting.

Also, I said I use an Iwasaki on one end of a tank and only actinics on the other so I can grow shrooms and frogspawns at one end and zooanthids and other bright light stuff at the other. It is much simpler but it is the same thing. I got different stuff at different ends of a differently lit tank. and I repeat: BFD (big deal ).

It should not be any revelation regarding UV in the water. Near UV penetrates the deepest next to actinic blue in the ocean so ALL life evolved with a significant portion of UV in it's origins and existence. That's whty corals have cool flourescent pigments to absorb the near UV (no good for photosynthesis) and re-emit it as lower energy, useful light for itself.

What shines on an Acro humilis at low tide (you've all seen the pics in your Veron books) cannot be replicated in the house so you shouldn't worry about a little incidental UV, which does get through a little on most HID bulbs anyway. The corals can take it. What they can't take is a rapid increase. They have only evolved to be broken and fall into the darker not lighter.

This is a nice lighting system and gives me some awesome ideas for livingroom art and the technique of spotting certain areas for aesthetic effect, just IMO not what I would do for my tanks in general. You really limit yourself to minimal well lit areas real-estate-wise.

You shouldn't religiously defend this system as the ultimate just because you are incensed by contact with a prominent foreign reefer. You also must assume that this guy is not a leading coral researcher either and is not the coral God. (he may very well be, but I doubt it, based on his tank lighting) Just stay real here.

[Frick-n-Frags]

One more think regarding mixes of coral and lighting gradients that just occurred to me:

That guy runs his lighting gradient horizontally. We run our gradients vertically. In almost every tank in AMERICA I see the Acros up high and the Cyanarinas(sorry sp, meat corals)and shrooms at the bottom. We are not stupid, we grade our animals based upon light requirements, and this is for sure no new revelation. If you see a "help, I got a new[blank] coral, how do i care for it?" thread on RC, the lighting is almost always discussed. This is from the most newbie reefer, even they are aware in the initial info absorbtion regarding reefs, that coral have certain light requirements.

Regarding mixes of coral, I have a predominantly Acro/SPS very bright tank. Just a few non-stoneys. I have my junk box w/light gradient which is mostly softies and dim light stoneys(and the shrooms at the dark end) and I have a brightly lit softie tank which features almost exclusively gorgs and big leathers, it is common knowledge that stoneys and softies can screw with each other and many people keep them away from each other here in AMERICA.

Dude, this Japanese setup just isn't blowing my socks off with revelation, it is a nice artistic reef method and looks nice, do I want it? F*** no! This stuff costs money too, HELLO!!! (unless it was free, then I would re-use the lights, lower, and lose those reflectors)

God help us if you should go to Berlin and see those unbelievable German tanks and what they do there. You won't know which end of the axis to ally yourself with anymore.......

[Frick-n-Frags]

Now, getting past philosophies, it does seem that several double ended bulbs of hitherto unheard of colors(temp ratings) are in use by this guy. Without starting up the "HQI vs the world" arguements which I also seem to get into too frequently, if he does describe the manufacturer/model of the DE metal halides please pass it along.

Has he made any explanation or references to the term "HQI" vs the term metal halide? My angle is this: It would be interesting to see their view or should I say convention, regarding the differences in ballasting wrt bulbs and how they treat the term HQI. The AB DE pic looks very much like an HQI bulb, is it? I think in Europe the term HQI is used like our term MH and it is all so frickin confusing.

God's own bulb: Best efficiency, best coral growing colors(ie actinic blue) what you get when you cross a radium with an HQI, at least that is how I imagine it. Does this guy seem to have a finger on a blue HQI?????


And I apologize, but my first instinct when looking at that overall pic for the tenth time is to tear that jumble down and build a super reflector that would just roast that tank with all those lights.
Jeeez, i could do an awesome sunrise/day cycle or a moving sun simulation, but he has used each light for a specific area and can't stage the timing as effectively. So once again. He offers valuable info which should be absorbed, but this isn't the end-all, no-one's reef is the end-all yet.

[Frick-n-Frags]

One public service announcement regarding additional UV in your tank:

It seems that most mogul based and other single ended bulbs can be run successfully without additional cover glass and not severely damage the corals (I have an A. gemmifera that gets a little scorched by the Iwasaki about 10" away from it)

It seems that my Ushio 250w DE HQI (just to thoroughly describe it) puts out some hot UV that flat kills the coral tissue that it shines on.
I modified my standard old Hamilton 250w sidemount, with internal ballast. I chopped off the ballast to get it away from the tank and so i could run air through the housing, but this left one end open. When i first set that up I killed some coral because of the open side, I had guessed, and just a month or two ago, I took the reflector down for some reef maintenance and accidentally put it back up backwards. In a day or so the burns showed up on a whole bunch of Acros, all at the correct angle from the HQI at the other end of the tank, cooked white to the bone, whereas the shaded areas were fine. The corals are not regrowing like a little bleach or war burn grows back either. Twice is sure proof enough for me: keep the glass on those HQI DE lamps, even the side light off the reflector is lethal.

[ravenmore]

First of all, let me say I don't think the Japanese are necessarily "better" reef keepers than we are (or the germans for that matter). They have a different approach and I think it's interesting to look at, but is what we are looking at representative of all Japanese tanks, or just a select few that are "the best"? I have seen some gorgeous American tanks that are every bit as impressive.

I will agree that a lot of japanese tanks try to create entire, but miniature, reefscapes - kind of like underwater bonzaii trees. If that's your thing, hey, it's cool and I appreciate and respect the devotion and dicipline to create it.

As far as the light is concerned, I'm still not convinced it isn't just the overall amount of light over the tank. Also, you have to look at more than the apparent color of the bulb. Iwasaki's, for example, actually put out a fair amount of light in the blue spectrums (maybe even more than a coralife bulb - which are predominantly blue to the eye). The reason they look yellow is that there is even more light in other spectrums that "overwhelms" the blue/violet spectrum.

Sorry, I'm rambling and while I'm at it I apologize for the mispellings. Couldn't get the darn spell check to work.

Bottom line, I think it's cool to look at the way others approach this but it's also important not necessarily buy into it hook, line, and sinker. As it is, this thread makes me want to go out and buy a dual 400 watt setup and add it to what I have already over my tank. Darn it - when does the spending stop.........

[absolutc]

Anyone that is intrested, I should have some more info later on in the day

[joeychitwood]

Can you post some full tank pictures?

Awesome lighting set up. You and only you should be the judge of how many and what kind of lights you place in your system.