my tank is one big problem, how can I fix it?

[areze]

Im going to take all the blame on this one. I didnt commit enough money to the right places, or enough time to the rest of the places.

what Ive ended up with is a tank that cant support fish or coral. anything I add ends up dead

EXCEPT the 3 things I started with... which is wierd. so I have 1 foxface rabbitfish, 1 clownfish, 1 lawnmower blenny, and 1 acro coral. ( a bit pathetic looking in an algea encrusted 75g...)

anyway, so what I want to do, empty the whole thing down. go barebottom, cook the rock, add a skimmer, and just generally rework the whole setup.

which leads me to my question. I take the whole deal apart, what do I do with the fish and coral while the rock is cooking? I understand that can take 2 months or more. will they live in a completely empty tank for that long? and the impending cycle that will come when there is no rock or sand suddenly. not to mention when I re-add the liverock after cooking.

what is the best way for me to not kill my fish while I revamp my setup?

[nmprisons]

I am not convinced that you need to start from scratch. What about regular good water changes with high quality salt and Ro/Di water, the addition of a good clean-up crew and removing live rock one piece at a time and giving it a good scrub?

Add a smimmer as soon as possible.

[kiowascout]

I agree. It is definitely the route that will reward you in time rather than right now. But in the end, think how proud you will be knowing that you licked it through perserverance and hard work.

Also, you may learn a lot more about the hobby along the way than you might by cooking and not having to really interact with what processes are happening in your tank.

[nmprisons]

what are your parameters? what are you testing for? what are you supplementing with? what are your lights? What is your flow?

[areze]

dont even know what the parameters are anymore, except salinit is 1.025. ammonia and nitrite had always been at 0, no reason to suspect otherwise. calcium was always low, as was alkalinity(related I assumed, I was adding baking soda way too often it felt to keep alkalinity up, 2-3times a week; and thats when calcium would rise)

500w of MH; 2 maxistreams, a random power head, a mag9, and a little hot magnum filter for good measure.

I know I need to redo my sump. I had 1 plan, and it didnt pan out.

Ive added cleaning crew, but doesnt work, they die. I bought a dozen black foot snails and a dozen hermit crabs, all dead within a month, bought a queen conch, dead. astrea snails, dead, and so on. I thought that would be the solution, but apparently not. or atleast not the way I was doing it.

when I do water changes(with RO/DI water) the whole tank seems to get sick, specially the acro coral. wasnt till I left it alone that the acro started growing.

[areze]

btw, skimmer is first on the list to purchase. just not sure what to get.

I had hopes for something nice, but I dont have the room for it under the stand, so I need to look for something in sump, dont know whats good for that though.

[areze]

so you guys think just srcrubbing the rock could help?

wire brush in a bucket of salt water? or fresh water ok?

I dont want to go throwing a 150$ batch of snails in there if Im not sure they'll live. when I first set it up, it was so clean and pretty, now the sand is a brownish color and I cant keep the coralline algea off the front glass, I scrape it twice a week and it comes back that fast(which you'd think meant the water quality was good... so darned if I know) probably just means I have way too many nutrients in the water with no skimmer. I feed 2x a week at most.

[trick440]

Baking soda? Dude. Don't add anything. You don't need to add anything yet. The salt in your water changes has everything you need.

Why do you think your rocks bad?

I'm thinking there is another problem your overlooking.. how about the chalk you used to make your sump is it the right stuff... sounds to me like you have leeching from something thats effecting you stuff.. crabs and snails are hardy, they shouldn't be dying like that.

[areze]

didnt make the sump, its just an allglass 20glong(mistake number 1, shoulda done tall so Id have more space under there)

there is some silicone sealant on the overflow, but its the windows and doors, no anti mildew.

if there was something leeching, the fish and certainly acro would be dead. there are 2 or 3 snails still kicking as well. so its not a complete wipe for them.

I haven added baking soda in a long while. when the tank went down hill so did my dedication. I had just read that baking soda was a good way to bring up alkalinity(and it was). I dont know why, I tested my water change salt mix and its alk was like 1... I donno what the heck is up with that, its kent salt

[DriftRtist]

If you’re tight on money try ASM or Octopus skimmer. If money isn’t an issue go for the deltec or euro-reef. If you can, get some quality testing kits (salifert) and find out what your water parameters are. For Ca and Alk you can try a 2 part solution like B-ionic.

[kiowascout]

was the tank bought new?

Was copper ever used in your tank or sump?

Where are you getting your water? How are you treating your water prior to adding to the tank?

[Shiandy]

I cant help but wonder if something else is wrong here, if all your parameters check out, and your inverts are dieing so quickly something is a miss.

Have you tested for copper ?,

[nmprisons]

test for copper (and other heavy metals if you can).

the set-up and lighting sounds pertty nice and so it seems like soemthing else might be wrong here. check your phosphate as well.

what kind of salt are you using? if it is a high quality salt and you match temp, salinity, ph before adding there should be little to know stress on your inhabitants. you may have a bad batch of salt or somthing working against you.

[areze]

have not tested for copper.

I have owned the tank since the day I got it. copper was used in it and that was a slight concern, but the tank was a fresh water tank for bout 8 years; and copper was used in the first month of that. but when I went ahead with the salt conversion I was told that would not be an issue after all that time.

should be affecting the fish, coral, and remaining inverts anyway right?

water is from a RO/DI which Im a bit questionable about. it has a valve or something on the drain, which it says to close and the pressure will release the proper waste... for me it doesnt release any. so I opened it up and then it gets waste water. this is it
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Reef-6st-100...QQcmdZViewItem

money isnt tight... but Im not bill gates either. value is the name of the game I suppose. dont want to buy more than I need. but if I make the purchase I want to get everything that I do need.

I have a 1part alk additive and a 2part calcium additive, but the alk additive never did anything. I tried dosing the tank, tried dosing the water change water(I always mix the water for atleast 12 hours in a brute can to be sure salinity is right)

[areze]

I have a bunch of test kits, which Ill pull out now and get some hard numbers so you helpful folks can have some actual info to work with. Ill bet that'll help .

I dont have a copper test though, or a phosphate test, Ill pick that up tomorrow I guess.

[scott30si]

take up stamp collecting

[areze]

well heres the numbers.

kinda strange.

PH 8.2-8.3
Alk 2
Calcium 350

and the strange part, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all show as 0... dont have any clue how nitrate could be 0 with no skimmer.

there is a plant growing in the tank, a very very large plant that I didnt put there. dont ask because I dont know. this black bud looking thing showed up one day and weeks later it turned into a plant; all months after I ever added anything. plant is a brownish tan color and grows like a weed. literally an inch a day or so. I left it, figuring it would consume nitrates, and I guess it has. now to erradicate it or love it? its not very attractive. and annoying to keep trimmed from covering the surface and blocking all the light.

[nmprisons]

your alk is low, calcium a bit low, but the rest seems fine.

it is possible for copper to become embedded in the sealant of a glass tank and then leach out after many years ... that may be an issue here.

[areze]

wouldnt that kill all of the coral and all of the fishes? and doesnt quite account for all the algea issues the tank has.


This is the plant 2 months ago and many cuttings


the next 2 I just took, that top is just whats sprawled out on the surface. I cut about a gallon worth of clippings every week or 2. the 2nd pic is "roots that have sprouted more recently, they appear ridgid, almost coral like though I dont believe they are at all.



the black thing is what the plant started as, its another one that may perhaps sprout in the future, its rather large, about an inch cube or so. and in the left of the photo you can see these small greenish things which I actually really like.


bottom line is, as you can see, the tank is disgusting. dont know where to start for cleaning it. scraping some coraline and cutting back the plant just isnt enough anymore. its an eye sore to look at.

[LOTUS50GOD]

Your ALK is 2? as in 2.0? Alkalinity should be in the 9 range..

[areze]

test says alk should be around 5. but yeah, its 2. I put 4 drops in to change color and it says each drop is ".5meq/l"

[Cosmo^Kramer]

areze,I have a 20 long for my sump.It's fine for a sump.I'll get a pic how mine is setup for you.Basicly I used a piece of acrylic to split the tank in half.The acrylic is about 2" from the top.The first section comes from the tank and is my fuge.The water flows over the acrylic to the skimmer and return pump(mag 7).I even had room to setup a float valve thats hooked up to my RO/DI to keep the water level correct.It's been like this for 4 years with no problems

[areze]

please do, I just feel like I have no floor space under there for a skimmer or whatever else.

things I probably shouldnt admit, I could write a 10 page post about the stupid things I did in the design that I shouldnt have. such as the 2 power strips next to the sump that get salt spray constantly where I cant even touch them without getting shocked. not to mention it shorted out a 50$ titanium heater/tempgauge.

not to mention when I set up the sump I drilled 2 holes in it for bulkheads, 1 was to go to a skimmer, that never materialized because I didnt have enough room under the stand when it was all done; so that just sits there wasting more room with a permanently closed ball valve off a wasted bulkhead, and the other side is drilled for the return pump, and why? who the hell knows, sounded good at the time; no heat in the water right? yeah. just more hassle; because I cant remove the pump without draining the sump because I cant get to the pump behind the sump.

and the doors on the cabinet that I built. smooth job, worked fantastic. but huh, put 1000lbs of water on there and it settles into the carpet a bit. now the doors dont clear the carpet and are breaking the hinges.

are you getting a general idea of what a screw up job I did setting this all up now? there is very very very little "right" with the setup. even the dang MH; 12" off the water! halides reflectors are 8", 20" tall canopy. great. subtract 2" off for the 2x4 they hang from, another 4" from the hanging eyelets and such. and bam, the light is about 4" off the surface and I cant get the temps under 84degrees. not to mention salt spray all over the UV glass.

I blame my own inexperience for everything. hard to lay something like this out with no real experience. now I just want to take it all apart and start with a clean slate, redo the plumbing, electronics, pumps, overflow, ect ect ect.

and yeah, I could try and fix this or that, but in the end, what it really needs is to be completely redesigned. replace pretty much everything on it.

but I dont know what to do with the fish while I redesign the tank.

maybe I should just get a 10g tank and let them chill out for a few months and cross my fingers.

[Cosmo^Kramer]

Don't raise the Alk too fast,try for 1 meq/l a week.You'll toast everything.Don't ask me how I know

[areze]

how should I raise it? slowly add more and more of this b-ionic each day?

Im assuming it needs to be a constant additive right?