Is it ok to rinse filter pads with tap water?

fishfreak83 · 09/28/2006, 11:35 AM

I've been rinsing my filter pads with tap water and shaking them out for awhile now and a lfs employee told me not to do so is this correct?

theop · 09/28/2006, 11:46 AM

Better to use RO water or fresh SW, but I don't imagine it would hurt anything. I do it all the time.

The theoretical risks would be that you could introduce small amounts of undesired chemicals which are in the tap water back into your tank (chlorine, chloramine, nitrates, phosphates, silicates, etc).

Slickdonkey · 09/28/2006, 12:01 PM

I don't think the tiny bit of tap water that would make it into the tank by rinsing filter pads is going to be a big deal. Yes, RO water is better but not necessary IMO.

It could kill bacterial populations on the pad, so this may not be a good idea if it's your only filtration (i.e. quarantine tank).

fmuakkassa · 09/28/2006, 01:22 PM

I do it all the time.

nosferatu51 · 09/28/2006, 01:23 PM

I've been doing it for a year in my 20g with no problems. I usually let the pads dry out 1st, but other than that I do nothing special.

GMAX · 09/28/2006, 01:28 PM

Echo the drying out part. Wring the sponges as much as possible and then put the sponge aside to air dry. Anything left in the sponge is not much and clearly better than leaving the dirty sponge in to generate Nitrate.

rjwilson37 · 09/28/2006, 01:51 PM

By using the straight tap water, you are killing all the benificial bacteria that is on the pad, you should use the water that comes out of your tank during your water change to rinse the pads. This is still not so bad fish tank saltwater that rinses though your filters and will not kill the good bacteria on it.

You want to get the extra crud out of the pad or filter sponge, as it collects misc amounts of settlement and fish waist which can lead to a nitrate trap. But.. there is still a lot of benificial bacteria on that filter sponge that is good for your tank/filter that you should and want to keep. By using straight tap water, it just pretty much instantly kills all that benificial bacteria.

GMAX · 09/28/2006, 01:56 PM

Seems like there is plenty of bacteria on my live rock to more than handle my tank needs. I want a Nitrate free sponge. maybe just me.

rjwilson37 · 09/28/2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GMAX
Seems like there is plenty of bacteria on my live rock to more than handle my tank needs. I want a Nitrate free sponge. maybe just me.

By there not being anymore benificial bacteria on the sponge, it is a straight nitrate factory where if there is benificial bacteria on the sponge, it will help in keeping the nitrates lower on the sponge.

GMAX · 09/28/2006, 02:05 PM

That is why you wash the sponge throughly and frequently. Under your theory, you should not have to rinse the sponge at all, the bacteria will take care of the problem. Except that the bacteria does not work on Nitrate, but rather farther back in the cycle ie ammonia and nitrite. And dirty sponges can even outrun a refugium full of macro. They are efficient Nitrate factories. They need to be clean. Any missing bacteria can and will recolonate within a few hours from flow in the tank.

rjwilson37 · 09/28/2006, 02:20 PM

I do know that there is bacteria in your LR that helps in reducing nitrates, it just doesn't do it enough in our tanks with how we stock them and not having a nice big water volume like the ocean. There is also this benificial bacteria on the sponges that builds up over time, which helps in a not so significant amount, which is probably less significant than what LR can do. I don't like to get rid of anything significant for my tanks that builds up over time, as the longer and more significant something is for my tank, the less likely I want to get rid of it.

We need all the help we can get in keeping our tanks clean and filtered I'm thinking. This is just my opinion on the subject of course.

Good Luck!

nosferatu51 · 09/28/2006, 02:25 PM

If you're worried about ease of cleaning AND nitrates, just clean and dry with tap water and leave a back of purigen in your hang on filter

That's my solution.

GMAX · 09/28/2006, 02:28 PM

The only bacteria that helps in reducing Nitrate is an Anaerobic one. There is some deep in live rock but more can be created in a deep sand bed where a layer forms that the tank oxygen does not penetrate ( thus anaerobic ). There simply is no way to create the anaerobic environment in a sponge. Therefore no bacteria in the sponge can help reduce Nitrates. Dont take my word for it, ask any of the experienced Reefers here that use DSB about anaerobic bacteria. You will find that unlike most things in this hobby, this one that nearly everyone agrees upon.

jbittner · 09/28/2006, 02:41 PM

I wonder why my barebottom tank nitrates are always 0??? I only change 10% of the water once a month.

GMAX · 09/28/2006, 02:51 PM

Got a refugium with macro? Got clams? Got any other means of nutrient export? Using any of the sophisticated additives like Zeovit?

You likely have a very low nutrient system. Probably a very efficient and wet skimmer and low bioload with sparse feeding. It aint cuz you got anaerobic bacteria in your sponge.

RichConley · 09/28/2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rjwilson37
By there not being anymore benificial bacteria on the sponge, it is a straight nitrate factory where if there is benificial bacteria on the sponge, it will help in keeping the nitrates lower on the sponge.

No, no it wont. Its a straight nitrate factory BECAUSE of the bacteria.

jbittner · 09/28/2006, 03:58 PM

Never implied that the sponge is reducing or producing nitrates. And the minimal amount bacteria on that sponge is doing nothing, even if it is dirty (any idea how much detritis iis on your live rock---swirl it around in a bucket of water). Systems prooduce and reduce chemicals in many different ways. The surface area of sand on the reef is minimal at best---the key is reduction by dilution (that is how the reef removes nitrates)

rjwilson37 · 09/28/2006, 04:24 PM

I am not a chemist by all means, I have no idea what is the difference between the different good bacteria's. I have always in the past 4 years, been told to rinse my tanks sponges off in the water change water, to not detroy any of the benificial bacteria from it. I always assumed it was good bacteria since I was told I did not want to destroy it, otherwise why would you want to keep it.

Now I am confused by all of this. I have a Aquapod 24g tank that has the 2 big sponges with it and I have an extremly high bioload with 6 fish and an Eel. I have 20-40ppm nitrates as a usual and just do like I said above and that is rinse the sponges off during the water change with the water that comes out of my tank. It works very well for me and it is something I have always done, I am just passing this on to other's.

Maybe I should be rinsing it off in tap water and killing as well as thoughowly rinsing it out to keep it very clean. I will by all means not test this and not change things right now to see what happens. If I fail because of doing this experiment, my nitrates could fly off the handle and I would not have a way to bring it back down with all the benificial bacteria gone.

????? Man I love this hobby, all the stuff we have to learn and experiment with.

Chicago · 09/28/2006, 04:47 PM

only if you need the bacteria to manage the cycle in your tank.. if you are using them as mechanical filters and not a bacteria cycle.. then it does not matter if you are killing the bacteria in the sponge or filter.. the live rock and / or sand bed should be doing that cycle..

miwoodar · 09/28/2006, 05:00 PM

A full blown reef with high circulation might not need mechanical filtration at all. I don't have any mechanical filtration (nothing to clean every other day!). I also have nothing other than a lot of live rock and an inch of sand for the aerobic and anaerobic processes. Nitrates and phosphates are ND despite having two 4" tangs, a 6" watchman, and a small wrasse in a 65.

rjwilson37 · 09/28/2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by miwoodar
A full blown reef with high circulation might not need mechanical filtration at all. I don't have any mechanical filtration (nothing to clean every other day!). I also have nothing other than a lot of live rock and an inch of sand for the aerobic and anaerobic processes. Nitrates and phosphates are ND despite having two 4" tangs, a 6" watchman, and a small wrasse in a 65.

My 90g was that way, I had about 3600gph moving through the tank with 100lbs of LR and the sump/refuge took care of breaking down my nitrates, there was no mechanical filtration and it was a very clean system. I had a 1-2" LS bed and the durso stand pipe which was in the overflow which brought the water down to the sump/refuge.

GMAX · 09/28/2006, 07:21 PM

RJWilson If you are happy with 40 ppm Nitrate and your tank seems to be fine then I would do exactly like you, and not change a thing. However, if the questioner who started this is more typical and especially if he wishes to keep SPS with some coloration, he would need to get his Nitrates down. My own experience says that bioballs in the sump or unclean sponges can create a lot of Nitrate. I personally sturggled for years on my 55 DAS style tank and no one ever told me that the sponges needed to go. No mechanical at all on my 55 now and Nitrates have dropped to single digits. And on my 185 I want colorful SPS and that means ZERO nitrates, and I do keep a sponge to catch some of the detritus that is in suspension due to my two Tunze streams and my wavebox but clean weekly and rotate in new sponges. Again just me.

rjwilson37 · 09/28/2006, 08:59 PM

Yep, sounds good. Like I said, you learn something new all the time here at RC. I just don't like to make changes when something is working, because it is never the same for everyone.

My nitrates are that high because of my high bioload, I mean 6 fish and an Eel in a 24g nano is a bit much, but there doing well so I am just leaving it. No SPS, just some shrooms and a few LPS corals, the fish are hardy as well as the Eel, so a little nitrates won't hurt them at all.

miwoodar · 09/29/2006, 08:39 AM

GMAX - I fully agree - bioballs and anything unclean are relics in the modern reefkeeping world. If I were using filter pads I would not be concerned about rinsing them in tap water although I agree that RO would technically be a better option. Having a couple pads and rotating them so you can always install a dry one each time would be worth a few extra bucks.

Part of my reasoning for not using pads is my hope that the corals (edit: SPS corals) will eat my particulates. I have not been able to find anyplace where they are piling up in my system. My water is clean and clear though and my NO4 and PO4 are not a problem. (edit again: I'm pushing 55x of highly variable turnover)

09/28/2006, 11:35 AM	#1
fishfreak83 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: omaha nebraska Posts: 64	Is it ok to rinse filter pads with tap water? I've been rinsing my filter pads with tap water and shaking them out for awhile now and a lfs employee told me not to do so is this correct?

09/28/2006, 01:51 PM	#7
rjwilson37 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: West Michigan Posts: 7,104	By using the straight tap water, you are killing all the benificial bacteria that is on the pad, you should use the water that comes out of your tank during your water change to rinse the pads. This is still not so bad fish tank saltwater that rinses though your filters and will not kill the good bacteria on it. You want to get the extra crud out of the pad or filter sponge, as it collects misc amounts of settlement and fish waist which can lead to a nitrate trap. But.. there is still a lot of benificial bacteria on that filter sponge that is good for your tank/filter that you should and want to keep. By using straight tap water, it just pretty much instantly kills all that benificial bacteria. __________________ Isn't life just wonderful. 29g Biocube Standard Pump Standard 72w PC Lighting Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube Reef Tank

09/28/2006, 02:20 PM	#11
rjwilson37 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: West Michigan Posts: 7,104	I do know that there is bacteria in your LR that helps in reducing nitrates, it just doesn't do it enough in our tanks with how we stock them and not having a nice big water volume like the ocean. There is also this benificial bacteria on the sponges that builds up over time, which helps in a not so significant amount, which is probably less significant than what LR can do. I don't like to get rid of anything significant for my tanks that builds up over time, as the longer and more significant something is for my tank, the less likely I want to get rid of it. We need all the help we can get in keeping our tanks clean and filtered I'm thinking. This is just my opinion on the subject of course. Good Luck! __________________ Isn't life just wonderful. 29g Biocube Standard Pump Standard 72w PC Lighting Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube Reef Tank

09/28/2006, 04:24 PM	#18
rjwilson37 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: West Michigan Posts: 7,104	I am not a chemist by all means, I have no idea what is the difference between the different good bacteria's. I have always in the past 4 years, been told to rinse my tanks sponges off in the water change water, to not detroy any of the benificial bacteria from it. I always assumed it was good bacteria since I was told I did not want to destroy it, otherwise why would you want to keep it. Now I am confused by all of this. I have a Aquapod 24g tank that has the 2 big sponges with it and I have an extremly high bioload with 6 fish and an Eel. I have 20-40ppm nitrates as a usual and just do like I said above and that is rinse the sponges off during the water change with the water that comes out of my tank. It works very well for me and it is something I have always done, I am just passing this on to other's. Maybe I should be rinsing it off in tap water and killing as well as thoughowly rinsing it out to keep it very clean. I will by all means not test this and not change things right now to see what happens. If I fail because of doing this experiment, my nitrates could fly off the handle and I would not have a way to bring it back down with all the benificial bacteria gone. ????? Man I love this hobby, all the stuff we have to learn and experiment with. __________________ Isn't life just wonderful. 29g Biocube Standard Pump Standard 72w PC Lighting Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube Reef Tank

09/28/2006, 04:47 PM	#19
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	only if you need the bacteria to manage the cycle in your tank.. if you are using them as mechanical filters and not a bacteria cycle.. then it does not matter if you are killing the bacteria in the sponge or filter.. the live rock and / or sand bed should be doing that cycle.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

09/28/2006, 11:46 AM	#2
theop Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 1,493	Better to use RO water or fresh SW, but I don't imagine it would hurt anything. I do it all the time. The theoretical risks would be that you could introduce small amounts of undesired chemicals which are in the tap water back into your tank (chlorine, chloramine, nitrates, phosphates, silicates, etc).

09/28/2006, 12:01 PM	#3
Slickdonkey Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Woodinville, WA Posts: 375	I don't think the tiny bit of tap water that would make it into the tank by rinsing filter pads is going to be a big deal. Yes, RO water is better but not necessary IMO. It could kill bacterial populations on the pad, so this may not be a good idea if it's your only filtration (i.e. quarantine tank).

09/28/2006, 01:22 PM	#4
fmuakkassa Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 404	I do it all the time.

09/28/2006, 01:23 PM	#5
nosferatu51 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 362	I've been doing it for a year in my 20g with no problems. I usually let the pads dry out 1st, but other than that I do nothing special.

09/28/2006, 01:28 PM	#6
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	Echo the drying out part. Wring the sponges as much as possible and then put the sponge aside to air dry. Anything left in the sponge is not much and clearly better than leaving the dirty sponge in to generate Nitrate.

09/28/2006, 01:56 PM	#8
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	Seems like there is plenty of bacteria on my live rock to more than handle my tank needs. I want a Nitrate free sponge. maybe just me.

09/28/2006, 02:05 PM	#10
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	That is why you wash the sponge throughly and frequently. Under your theory, you should not have to rinse the sponge at all, the bacteria will take care of the problem. Except that the bacteria does not work on Nitrate, but rather farther back in the cycle ie ammonia and nitrite. And dirty sponges can even outrun a refugium full of macro. They are efficient Nitrate factories. They need to be clean. Any missing bacteria can and will recolonate within a few hours from flow in the tank.

09/28/2006, 02:25 PM	#12
nosferatu51 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 362	If you're worried about ease of cleaning AND nitrates, just clean and dry with tap water and leave a back of purigen in your hang on filter That's my solution.

09/28/2006, 02:28 PM	#13
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	The only bacteria that helps in reducing Nitrate is an Anaerobic one. There is some deep in live rock but more can be created in a deep sand bed where a layer forms that the tank oxygen does not penetrate ( thus anaerobic ). There simply is no way to create the anaerobic environment in a sponge. Therefore no bacteria in the sponge can help reduce Nitrates. Dont take my word for it, ask any of the experienced Reefers here that use DSB about anaerobic bacteria. You will find that unlike most things in this hobby, this one that nearly everyone agrees upon.

09/28/2006, 02:41 PM	#14
jbittner Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Humboldt, NE Posts: 1,014	I wonder why my barebottom tank nitrates are always 0??? I only change 10% of the water once a month.

09/28/2006, 02:51 PM	#15
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	Got a refugium with macro? Got clams? Got any other means of nutrient export? Using any of the sophisticated additives like Zeovit? You likely have a very low nutrient system. Probably a very efficient and wet skimmer and low bioload with sparse feeding. It aint cuz you got anaerobic bacteria in your sponge.

09/28/2006, 03:58 PM	#17
jbittner Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Humboldt, NE Posts: 1,014	Never implied that the sponge is reducing or producing nitrates. And the minimal amount bacteria on that sponge is doing nothing, even if it is dirty (any idea how much detritis iis on your live rock---swirl it around in a bucket of water). Systems prooduce and reduce chemicals in many different ways. The surface area of sand on the reef is minimal at best---the key is reduction by dilution (that is how the reef removes nitrates)

09/28/2006, 05:00 PM	#20
miwoodar Likey the bikey Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,371	A full blown reef with high circulation might not need mechanical filtration at all. I don't have any mechanical filtration (nothing to clean every other day!). I also have nothing other than a lot of live rock and an inch of sand for the aerobic and anaerobic processes. Nitrates and phosphates are ND despite having two 4" tangs, a 6" watchman, and a small wrasse in a 65. __________________ Mike On hiatus. I'm either out riding my bicycle, playing with my family, or throwing ferts in my planted tank. Or working. I hope I'm not doing that though. Current Tank Info: 140 DIY Cube

09/28/2006, 07:21 PM	#22
GMAX Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DFW Posts: 839	RJWilson If you are happy with 40 ppm Nitrate and your tank seems to be fine then I would do exactly like you, and not change a thing. However, if the questioner who started this is more typical and especially if he wishes to keep SPS with some coloration, he would need to get his Nitrates down. My own experience says that bioballs in the sump or unclean sponges can create a lot of Nitrate. I personally sturggled for years on my 55 DAS style tank and no one ever told me that the sponges needed to go. No mechanical at all on my 55 now and Nitrates have dropped to single digits. And on my 185 I want colorful SPS and that means ZERO nitrates, and I do keep a sponge to catch some of the detritus that is in suspension due to my two Tunze streams and my wavebox but clean weekly and rotate in new sponges. Again just me.

09/28/2006, 08:59 PM	#23
rjwilson37 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: West Michigan Posts: 7,104	Yep, sounds good. Like I said, you learn something new all the time here at RC. I just don't like to make changes when something is working, because it is never the same for everyone. My nitrates are that high because of my high bioload, I mean 6 fish and an Eel in a 24g nano is a bit much, but there doing well so I am just leaving it. No SPS, just some shrooms and a few LPS corals, the fish are hardy as well as the Eel, so a little nitrates won't hurt them at all. __________________ Isn't life just wonderful. 29g Biocube Standard Pump Standard 72w PC Lighting Current Tank Info: 29g Biocube Reef Tank

09/29/2006, 08:39 AM	#24
miwoodar Likey the bikey Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 3,371	GMAX - I fully agree - bioballs and anything unclean are relics in the modern reefkeeping world. If I were using filter pads I would not be concerned about rinsing them in tap water although I agree that RO would technically be a better option. Having a couple pads and rotating them so you can always install a dry one each time would be worth a few extra bucks. Part of my reasoning for not using pads is my hope that the corals (edit: SPS corals) will eat my particulates. I have not been able to find anyplace where they are piling up in my system. My water is clean and clear though and my NO4 and PO4 are not a problem. (edit again: I'm pushing 55x of highly variable turnover) __________________ Mike On hiatus. I'm either out riding my bicycle, playing with my family, or throwing ferts in my planted tank. Or working. I hope I'm not doing that though. Current Tank Info: 140 DIY Cube