Problem!!!!

directional · 10/16/2006, 03:18 PM

Okay... My tank has been going for a while okay and my fiance calls me today while I am at work ( where I am right now ) and says the Niger Trigger is dieing.

I had her test the water and the following

PH 7.8
Nitrate 0
Nitrite .25
Ammonia .50

The tank has been running for over a year... Nothing has changed recently that this he would all of a sudden die...

She says he is floating around and laying on the ground etc.

She also said all the other fish are swimming like usual.

Could the ammonia be high because he is in dieing mode? What is going on .. . i don't know :\

sir_dudeguy · 10/16/2006, 03:31 PM

amonia wont be high because he's dieing...imo he's dieing cuz the amonia is high(ish). Has anything died recently? It could be anything like a crab, shrimp, SPONGE (those are pretty bad when they die i hear..and you sometimes dont even know you got one)

directional · 10/16/2006, 03:33 PM

I am having her retest the ammonia because it seems high..

What can I do to fix this mess in the mean time?

Only change water ?

sir_dudeguy · 10/16/2006, 03:37 PM

I'd do a good water change. Theres also chemicals that can control/make amonia safe short-term, but i dont know what they are and how good they are/if they even work.

TekCat · 10/16/2006, 03:37 PM

Sir Dude is right, only dead things rot... If this is an ammonia emergency, I'd put some AmQuel in to detoxify water, aerate heavily, then find whatever is causing ammonia spike. Probably something's died. When ammonia initiator had been found and removed, ~20% of water change seems to be in order.

Also, it makes sense to double check your water tests with LFS.

I hope the fish pulls though.

directional · 10/16/2006, 03:42 PM

Okay she is doing a water change now . .. He is laying on his side I think he is deff a goner...

The ammonia is at .5 for sure she tested again... Why the hell this happend I have no idea.

Hopefully the water change lowers it and the rest are ok.

The rest are swimming around like nothing is wrong....

Who knows if this is even whats killing him..

Either way im ****ed off.

directional · 10/16/2006, 03:49 PM

Should I throw an Air Stone in there to make some air in the tank?

TekCat · 10/16/2006, 03:57 PM

airstone + skimmer + open windows to let fresh air in.

Dont forget Amquel+, I had close call the other day. Both my fishes were in deep sh#t, laying on sand bed.... but pulled through. Your skimmer will go crazy after you add Amquel, so be prepared.

sir_dudeguy · 10/16/2006, 03:58 PM

oh thats another thing...maybe there wasnt enough oxegen? Bigger fish needs more oxegen. But then again you seem to have another trigger, puffer and a snowflake eel in 1 55 gallon tank..so i'd think that oxegen would be depleated pretty quickly in there. Also, i spose that just the messyness of all those fish (which are pretty messy) could have caused it...but would that even cause amonia?? idk..just a thought.

directional · 10/16/2006, 04:00 PM

Well I have the 2 55gal filters moving the water around creating oxygen and so does the protein skimmer...

They have been this way for a while thats why i dont understand.

Maybe i will skip my jiu-jitsu class and get some Amquel

cody-the-roo · 10/16/2006, 04:07 PM

There could also be environmental reasons for what is going on (outside the tank).

Spraying ammonia based window cleaners that could drift into the tank water, recently painting in a room could cause issues.

Assuming no one has done this, likely something has gone awry in the tank and many water changes will be needed to help things along. You might even consider setting up an emergency hospital tank for the fish, just to get him out of the ammonia and nitrites.

Good luck! Everyone here is pulling for you.

directional · 10/16/2006, 04:09 PM

I cant get my hands on the + but I can get regular Amquel is this just as good? !

BTTRFLYGRL · 10/16/2006, 04:17 PM

I would have to say too many large fish in a small tank is the problem.. Too much waste. How much live rock do you have?
Amquel will convert the ammonia to a less toxic form, and this may still show up as ammonia on tour tests.
Doing water changes is best

192clark · 10/16/2006, 04:17 PM

I noticed you have two hang on back filters. Check those and you might find the ammonia problem.

directional · 10/16/2006, 04:17 PM

I am running Carbon and LR in the HOB filters ... No sponge or bio balls.

TekCat · 10/16/2006, 04:17 PM

regular Amquel detoxifies ammonia too. If I remember correctly, their "standard dosing" detox about 1ppm of ammonia

directional · 10/16/2006, 04:19 PM

TekCat how soon after should I test the ammonia to see if it dropped?

Awesome 1ppm of ammonia down would bring me to -.5 :-D

Thanks for the help I am off of work in 12 minutes then I will shoot down like a bat out of hell home..

She is cleaning the tank now and put air in there already

Do you think he can pull through?!?!

directional · 10/16/2006, 04:25 PM

Also How much of the stuff should I put in .. I think it said a teaspoon per 10gallons.. I have a 55gal tank should I put 6 teaspoons?

TekCat · 10/16/2006, 04:30 PM

Yep, just follow directions on the bottle. 6 teaspoons should do it ... depending on your pH and water flow this stuff should detox ammonia in about 5 minutes.

I know that Amquel+ will interfere with some ammonia tests producing errorness results. Not sure about regular Amquel.

directional · 10/17/2006, 07:42 AM

Thanks for the help guys but he died this morning approx 20minutes ago.

The rest of the fish look fine though.

I have a feeling someone fed him shirmp that was sitting out for to long and he ate it and got sick..

TekCat · 10/17/2006, 08:24 AM

RIP....

marcsmith73 · 10/17/2006, 08:31 AM

I know this might seem vague, but fish sometimes just die. Just like we all will. Sorry to hear about your death.

TekCat · 10/17/2006, 08:36 AM

Still, there was an ammonia spike. Something must have thrown bio-system out of whack. Could it be that piece of bad shrimp? If left for a day or so, it could have started to rot, though critters should have at least tried to devour it first.

techreef · 10/17/2006, 08:54 AM

directional, i hate reading posts where people harp on others about overcrowding, but I believe that whatever was the source of ammonia in your tank, your fish's stress levels are elevated due to your overcrowding, which lowers their immune systems and their ability to live through temporary sub-optimal water conditions. may i gently harp

here and suggest that perhaps you reduce your fish load? I think you will have great success in the future if you do, but will run into problems as your fish continue to grow. obviously you truly care about the health of your fish, as you seemed very concerned about the niger trigger.

in case you haven't seen it before, Liveaquaria suggests the minimum size tank for each of the fish they sell. it's a great, quick reference to use when you're considering new additions. www.liveaquaria.com

happy reefing,

directional · 10/17/2006, 11:20 AM

I dont think the ammonia was .5 I think she was reading it a little wrong

Maybe .25 if anything.. I tested last night after Amquel and its on 0 and this morning its still on 0.. ( We also did a 13gal water change )

The fish could have died because she has a habbit of feeding left over food that has been sitting for a day to the fish ( which will not happen any more )

The other fish are swimming like no tomorrow active as anything.. I wont be adding any more fish in the tank though it is populated enough.

New project will be a 5.5gal AGA or a 10gal AGA nano reef tank. Does anyone know where to get a 5.5 gal aga?

10/16/2006, 03:18 PM	#1
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	Problem!!!! Okay... My tank has been going for a while okay and my fiance calls me today while I am at work ( where I am right now ) and says the Niger Trigger is dieing. I had her test the water and the following PH 7.8 Nitrate 0 Nitrite .25 Ammonia .50 The tank has been running for over a year... Nothing has changed recently that this he would all of a sudden die... She says he is floating around and laying on the ground etc. She also said all the other fish are swimming like usual. Could the ammonia be high because he is in dieing mode? What is going on .. . i don't know :\

10/16/2006, 03:31 PM	#2
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	amonia wont be high because he's dieing...imo he's dieing cuz the amonia is high(ish). Has anything died recently? It could be anything like a crab, shrimp, SPONGE (those are pretty bad when they die i hear..and you sometimes dont even know you got one) __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

10/16/2006, 03:37 PM	#4
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	I'd do a good water change. Theres also chemicals that can control/make amonia safe short-term, but i dont know what they are and how good they are/if they even work. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

10/16/2006, 03:58 PM	#9
sir_dudeguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10,841	oh thats another thing...maybe there wasnt enough oxegen? Bigger fish needs more oxegen. But then again you seem to have another trigger, puffer and a snowflake eel in 1 55 gallon tank..so i'd think that oxegen would be depleated pretty quickly in there. Also, i spose that just the messyness of all those fish (which are pretty messy) could have caused it...but would that even cause amonia?? idk..just a thought. __________________ TAKE...LUCK!!!

10/16/2006, 04:17 PM	#13
BTTRFLYGRL Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: INDY Posts: 2,857	I would have to say too many large fish in a small tank is the problem.. Too much waste. How much live rock do you have? Amquel will convert the ammonia to a less toxic form, and this may still show up as ammonia on tour tests. Doing water changes is best __________________ AKA Kim Hardie.. Current Tank Info: 240 gallon FOWLR, 180 gallon reef, 55 gallon for my Dwarf Lion

10/16/2006, 03:33 PM	#3
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	I am having her retest the ammonia because it seems high.. What can I do to fix this mess in the mean time? Only change water ?

10/16/2006, 03:37 PM	#5
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	Sir Dude is right, only dead things rot... If this is an ammonia emergency, I'd put some AmQuel in to detoxify water, aerate heavily, then find whatever is causing ammonia spike. Probably something's died. When ammonia initiator had been found and removed, ~20% of water change seems to be in order. Also, it makes sense to double check your water tests with LFS. I hope the fish pulls though.

10/16/2006, 03:42 PM	#6
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	Okay she is doing a water change now . .. He is laying on his side I think he is deff a goner... The ammonia is at .5 for sure she tested again... Why the hell this happend I have no idea. Hopefully the water change lowers it and the rest are ok. The rest are swimming around like nothing is wrong.... Who knows if this is even whats killing him.. Either way im ****ed off.

10/16/2006, 03:49 PM	#7
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	Should I throw an Air Stone in there to make some air in the tank?

10/16/2006, 03:57 PM	#8
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	airstone + skimmer + open windows to let fresh air in. Dont forget Amquel+, I had close call the other day. Both my fishes were in deep sh#t, laying on sand bed.... but pulled through. Your skimmer will go crazy after you add Amquel, so be prepared.

10/16/2006, 04:00 PM	#10
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	Well I have the 2 55gal filters moving the water around creating oxygen and so does the protein skimmer... They have been this way for a while thats why i dont understand. Maybe i will skip my jiu-jitsu class and get some Amquel

10/16/2006, 04:07 PM	#11
cody-the-roo Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pleasanton Posts: 52	There could also be environmental reasons for what is going on (outside the tank). Spraying ammonia based window cleaners that could drift into the tank water, recently painting in a room could cause issues. Assuming no one has done this, likely something has gone awry in the tank and many water changes will be needed to help things along. You might even consider setting up an emergency hospital tank for the fish, just to get him out of the ammonia and nitrites. Good luck! Everyone here is pulling for you.

10/16/2006, 04:09 PM	#12
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	I cant get my hands on the + but I can get regular Amquel is this just as good? !

10/16/2006, 04:17 PM	#14
192clark Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Summerville, SC Posts: 635	I noticed you have two hang on back filters. Check those and you might find the ammonia problem.

10/16/2006, 04:19 PM	#17
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	TekCat how soon after should I test the ammonia to see if it dropped? Awesome 1ppm of ammonia down would bring me to -.5 :-D Thanks for the help I am off of work in 12 minutes then I will shoot down like a bat out of hell home.. She is cleaning the tank now and put air in there already Do you think he can pull through?!?!

10/16/2006, 04:25 PM	#18
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	Also How much of the stuff should I put in .. I think it said a teaspoon per 10gallons.. I have a 55gal tank should I put 6 teaspoons?

10/16/2006, 04:30 PM	#19
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	Yep, just follow directions on the bottle. 6 teaspoons should do it ... depending on your pH and water flow this stuff should detox ammonia in about 5 minutes. I know that Amquel+ will interfere with some ammonia tests producing errorness results. Not sure about regular Amquel.

10/17/2006, 07:42 AM	#20
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	Thanks for the help guys but he died this morning approx 20minutes ago. The rest of the fish look fine though. I have a feeling someone fed him shirmp that was sitting out for to long and he ate it and got sick..

10/17/2006, 08:24 AM	#21
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	RIP....

10/17/2006, 08:31 AM	#22
marcsmith73 Moved On Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: EPPING, NH USA Posts: 155	I know this might seem vague, but fish sometimes just die. Just like we all will. Sorry to hear about your death.

10/17/2006, 08:36 AM	#23
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	Still, there was an ammonia spike. Something must have thrown bio-system out of whack. Could it be that piece of bad shrimp? If left for a day or so, it could have started to rot, though critters should have at least tried to devour it first.

10/17/2006, 08:54 AM	#24
techreef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montclair, NJ Posts: 1,046	directional, i hate reading posts where people harp on others about overcrowding, but I believe that whatever was the source of ammonia in your tank, your fish's stress levels are elevated due to your overcrowding, which lowers their immune systems and their ability to live through temporary sub-optimal water conditions. may i gently harp here and suggest that perhaps you reduce your fish load? I think you will have great success in the future if you do, but will run into problems as your fish continue to grow. obviously you truly care about the health of your fish, as you seemed very concerned about the niger trigger. in case you haven't seen it before, Liveaquaria suggests the minimum size tank for each of the fish they sell. it's a great, quick reference to use when you're considering new additions. www.liveaquaria.com happy reefing,

10/17/2006, 11:20 AM	#25
directional Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Farmingville, NY Posts: 368	I dont think the ammonia was .5 I think she was reading it a little wrong Maybe .25 if anything.. I tested last night after Amquel and its on 0 and this morning its still on 0.. ( We also did a 13gal water change ) The fish could have died because she has a habbit of feeding left over food that has been sitting for a day to the fish ( which will not happen any more ) The other fish are swimming like no tomorrow active as anything.. I wont be adding any more fish in the tank though it is populated enough. New project will be a 5.5gal AGA or a 10gal AGA nano reef tank. Does anyone know where to get a 5.5 gal aga?