qt- cycle/ wc

hdevils · 10/19/2006, 12:01 PM

im currently cycling my qt. i ran out of tests and money is tight so...

the qt has been running for 4 weeks. i did find a nitrite test which was off the charts high, nitrate was 0. i have been adding flake/ myiss shrimp every few days. in and on the pvc (for hiding) is getting diatoms im assuming. i have done 1 25% water change.
should i do another water change/ syphon out the food/diatoms on the bottom? wait and buy some tests soon? since i dont know what my ammonia is doing anyone have exp. with the cycle of a new tank?

schiejr · 10/19/2006, 12:10 PM

You should be getting towards the end of the cycle but it can vary and without a test you do not know for sure. If everything else is ok with your tank, ammonia, the most critical value should be zero by now. Personally I would double check with a test, especially since you have decaying food in there.

cilyjr · 10/19/2006, 04:31 PM

take a water sample to your LFS thay will test for you!

dalejr_802 · 10/19/2006, 04:35 PM

do you really need to cycle a qt because i have a qt tank that is set up about 3 days old and its bare bottom so do i need to be carefull/watch my water parameter because i heared that you need to change you water atleast over other day or everyday so nothing builds up correct me if im wrong

hdevils · 10/20/2006, 01:56 PM

i would say, yes any tank needs a cycled filter. If the filter in not cycled waterchanges everyday would be a must so the perams dont rise.

i dont want to do water changes everyday, im too busy for that. would just rather have a cycled filter.

i thought about having the LFS test my water too. think ill do one more wather change and have it tested the next day.

bertoni · 10/20/2006, 02:13 PM

I would never leave food decaying on the bottom of the tank for very long. That's overkill on ammonia. If there's enough food decaying, the tank might never measure zero for ammonia because the decay is more than the filter could ever handle.

You really don't need to test nitrite at all in a salwater aquarium, so save your money for ammonia test kits. This article discusses nitrite:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

Nitrate is irrelevant in quarantine tanks, so I'd ignore that measurement.

I think getting a test from an LFS is a fine idea.

Brenden · 10/20/2006, 02:15 PM

If you where closer I have some test you could have. The Ammonia alert badges work great for a QT and they are cheap. I would not add any more food. Just some at the beginning should be fine to start the cycle. I keep a piece of filter media in my sump at all times in case I need a QT. That way I do not have to worry about cycling. One thing to remember is hypo and meds will kill your bacteria so QTing without some kind of test kit is not a good idea.

Brenden · 10/20/2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

You really don't need to test nitrite at all in a salwater aquarium,

I do not agree with this nor does the article you posted. It states that it is not as toxic to marine fish as it is to fresh water. A newly cycled tank in which food has been added every other day can easily exceed safe NO2 levels. Also consider the fish will already be stressed from being put in the QT and also possibly being treated for a parasite or disease.

bertoni · 10/20/2006, 02:32 PM

I'll defer to the author's comments in the chemistry forum, in which he states that he does not consider testing for nitrite to be useful. I think this article also discusses that:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the conditions for which he thinks this rule applies, but I've also never seen any data on any actual toxic levels of nitrite.

Brenden · 10/20/2006, 02:53 PM

I do not check NO2 in my main either. I only monitor CA in my tank. I do test NO3 about 5-6 times a year just to be sure. We are talking about a QT tank that is not established and does not have a effective way or removing the NO2. This is a quote that was in bold from the second link you posted. "I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria." ESTABLISHED is the key term here.

hdevils · 10/20/2006, 02:59 PM

"If there's enough food decaying, the tank might never measure zero for ammonia because the decay is more than the filter could ever handle."

if this is the case, wouldnt water changes bring it to zero? its not like i have a bed of food on the bottom of the tank.

bertoni · 10/20/2006, 03:01 PM

Here's the whole quote:

Quote:

Aquarists' concerns about nitrite are usually imported from the freshwater hobby. Nitrite is far less toxic in seawater than in freshwater. Fish are typically able to survive in seawater with more than 100 ppm nitrite!17 Until future experiments show substantial nitrite toxicity to reef aquarium inhabitants, nitrite is not an important parameter for reef aquarists to monitor. Tracking nitrite in a new reef aquarium can nevertheless be instructive by showing the biochemical processes that are taking place. In most cases, I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria.

All in all, I stand by what I said.

Water changes wouldn't bring the ammonia to zero if there were enough decay continuing in the tank. Not knowing what your setup is like, it's hard to judge, but I'd clean up any food remaining on the bottom of the tank, wait a day or so, and get an ammonia test.

Brenden · 10/20/2006, 03:07 PM

Let me put it this way. You are sick and in the hospital. Do you want clean air pumped into you room or do you want air that is "less toxic " PS. that is from your quote also. I stand by what I said as well. It is just common sense. Remember all your quotes are referring to "established" tanks. Not a newly set up QT.

WC will eventually lower the NH3 in the QT to "0" but removing the debris from the bottom is much more efficient.

hdevils · 10/20/2006, 03:16 PM

since i have not been testing... soon as i do test and get ammonia to 0 for a week it should be fine correct? the tank has been running for over 4 wks. thinking around the 6wk mark i should be ready for the fish.

Brenden · 10/20/2006, 07:42 PM

bertoni: If he has been throwing food in every couple days and states that his NO2 test is off the charts. How do you know it is not at a level to stress the fish?

Boomer · 10/21/2006, 12:51 AM

Ok he is not treating anything he is just starting up a QT tank. It looks like it is still going through cycling. It has diatoms and has been running for weeks. His question is it safe as he has no ammonia test kit. More than likely there is no ammonia. His NO2 is high but the NO3 is still zero. More than likely this is a common suppression where NO3 bacteria are suppressed due to elevated N02 and need more time.

bertoni · 10/22/2006, 01:23 AM

There's a thread in the chemistry forum on this topic. I would say the tank is ready to use when the ammonia hits zero. I'd clean up any food bits and possibly do some water changes. An ammonia test result would be handy. I don't think nitrite is worth measuring.

hdevils · 10/22/2006, 10:06 PM

the next lfs trip ill bring a sample and get my ammonia tested. should be the only test needed?

bertoni · 10/23/2006, 12:05 PM

That's what I think.

hdevils · 10/25/2006, 07:23 AM

so i brought a water sample and had the ammonia tested. Test came out 0.. soooo i guess i could add the fish from the main to the qt, huh?

bertoni · 10/25/2006, 12:47 PM

Sounds fine to me.

dalejr_802 · 10/25/2006, 03:42 PM

if i leave my bb qt tank running for a month would that cycle because i cant put my media filter on my main tank because its infected with brook...........im planning to buy another fish probobly in january or december..........so do u guys think that it would cycle with just a filter, water and an airpump running........i kno its a stupid question

bertoni · 10/25/2006, 03:52 PM

I would just add a tiny pinch of fish food every few days to feed the bacteria.

hdevils · 10/26/2006, 08:39 AM

i had a sponge filter running for 5wks and added fish food a few days and it seems the tank has cycled. ammonia is at 0.

10/19/2006, 12:01 PM	#1
hdevils Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 761	qt- cycle/ wc im currently cycling my qt. i ran out of tests and money is tight so... the qt has been running for 4 weeks. i did find a nitrite test which was off the charts high, nitrate was 0. i have been adding flake/ myiss shrimp every few days. in and on the pvc (for hiding) is getting diatoms im assuming. i have done 1 25% water change. should i do another water change/ syphon out the food/diatoms on the bottom? wait and buy some tests soon? since i dont know what my ammonia is doing anyone have exp. with the cycle of a new tank?

10/19/2006, 04:31 PM	#3
cilyjr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,683	take a water sample to your LFS thay will test for you! __________________ Cls Current Tank Info: 180 inwall, 75 sump, 20lfrag, 3x lumen max elite w/250w radium 20k, recirc modded asm g-3, aqua controller apex,2x rw-20, 350lbs LR

10/20/2006, 02:13 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I would never leave food decaying on the bottom of the tank for very long. That's overkill on ammonia. If there's enough food decaying, the tank might never measure zero for ammonia because the decay is more than the filter could ever handle. You really don't need to test nitrite at all in a salwater aquarium, so save your money for ammonia test kits. This article discusses nitrite: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php Nitrate is irrelevant in quarantine tanks, so I'd ignore that measurement. I think getting a test from an LFS is a fine idea. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/20/2006, 02:32 PM	#9
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I'll defer to the author's comments in the chemistry forum, in which he states that he does not consider testing for nitrite to be useful. I think this article also discusses that: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the conditions for which he thinks this rule applies, but I've also never seen any data on any actual toxic levels of nitrite. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/20/2006, 07:42 PM	#15
Brenden Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Piedmont, NC Posts: 224	bertoni: If he has been throwing food in every couple days and states that his NO2 test is off the charts. How do you know it is not at a level to stress the fish? Last edited by Brenden; 10/20/2006 at 08:03 PM.

10/19/2006, 12:10 PM	#2
schiejr Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 121	You should be getting towards the end of the cycle but it can vary and without a test you do not know for sure. If everything else is ok with your tank, ammonia, the most critical value should be zero by now. Personally I would double check with a test, especially since you have decaying food in there.

10/19/2006, 04:35 PM	#4
dalejr_802 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fairfield,CA Posts: 99	do you really need to cycle a qt because i have a qt tank that is set up about 3 days old and its bare bottom so do i need to be carefull/watch my water parameter because i heared that you need to change you water atleast over other day or everyday so nothing builds up correct me if im wrong

10/20/2006, 01:56 PM	#5
hdevils Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 761	i would say, yes any tank needs a cycled filter. If the filter in not cycled waterchanges everyday would be a must so the perams dont rise. i dont want to do water changes everyday, im too busy for that. would just rather have a cycled filter. i thought about having the LFS test my water too. think ill do one more wather change and have it tested the next day.

10/20/2006, 02:15 PM	#7
Brenden Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Piedmont, NC Posts: 224	If you where closer I have some test you could have. The Ammonia alert badges work great for a QT and they are cheap. I would not add any more food. Just some at the beginning should be fine to start the cycle. I keep a piece of filter media in my sump at all times in case I need a QT. That way I do not have to worry about cycling. One thing to remember is hypo and meds will kill your bacteria so QTing without some kind of test kit is not a good idea.

10/20/2006, 02:53 PM	#10
Brenden Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Piedmont, NC Posts: 224	I do not check NO2 in my main either. I only monitor CA in my tank. I do test NO3 about 5-6 times a year just to be sure. We are talking about a QT tank that is not established and does not have a effective way or removing the NO2. This is a quote that was in bold from the second link you posted. "I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria." ESTABLISHED is the key term here.

10/20/2006, 02:59 PM	#11
hdevils Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 761	"If there's enough food decaying, the tank might never measure zero for ammonia because the decay is more than the filter could ever handle." if this is the case, wouldnt water changes bring it to zero? its not like i have a bed of food on the bottom of the tank.

10/20/2006, 03:07 PM	#13
Brenden Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Piedmont, NC Posts: 224	Let me put it this way. You are sick and in the hospital. Do you want clean air pumped into you room or do you want air that is "less toxic " PS. that is from your quote also. I stand by what I said as well. It is just common sense. Remember all your quotes are referring to "established" tanks. Not a newly set up QT. WC will eventually lower the NH3 in the QT to "0" but removing the debris from the bottom is much more efficient.

10/20/2006, 03:16 PM	#14
hdevils Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 761	since i have not been testing... soon as i do test and get ammonia to 0 for a week it should be fine correct? the tank has been running for over 4 wks. thinking around the 6wk mark i should be ready for the fish.

10/21/2006, 12:51 AM	#16
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Ok he is not treating anything he is just starting up a QT tank. It looks like it is still going through cycling. It has diatoms and has been running for weeks. His question is it safe as he has no ammonia test kit. More than likely there is no ammonia. His NO2 is high but the NO3 is still zero. More than likely this is a common suppression where NO3 bacteria are suppressed due to elevated N02 and need more time. __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

10/22/2006, 01:23 AM	#17
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	There's a thread in the chemistry forum on this topic. I would say the tank is ready to use when the ammonia hits zero. I'd clean up any food bits and possibly do some water changes. An ammonia test result would be handy. I don't think nitrite is worth measuring. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/22/2006, 10:06 PM	#18
hdevils Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 761	the next lfs trip ill bring a sample and get my ammonia tested. should be the only test needed?

10/23/2006, 12:05 PM	#19
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	That's what I think. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/25/2006, 07:23 AM	#20
hdevils Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 761	so i brought a water sample and had the ammonia tested. Test came out 0.. soooo i guess i could add the fish from the main to the qt, huh?

10/25/2006, 12:47 PM	#21
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Sounds fine to me. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/25/2006, 03:42 PM	#22
dalejr_802 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fairfield,CA Posts: 99	if i leave my bb qt tank running for a month would that cycle because i cant put my media filter on my main tank because its infected with brook...........im planning to buy another fish probobly in january or december..........so do u guys think that it would cycle with just a filter, water and an airpump running........i kno its a stupid question

10/25/2006, 03:52 PM	#23
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I would just add a tiny pinch of fish food every few days to feed the bacteria. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/26/2006, 08:39 AM	#24
hdevils Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 761	i had a sponge filter running for 5wks and added fish food a few days and it seems the tank has cycled. ammonia is at 0.