help with nitrates and ph please!

ahullsb · 10/23/2006, 01:30 PM

I bought an established 55 from someone more than a month ago. We moved everything including the water, in little over an hour. They insisted on draining it to just above sand level, but we kept the sand in there under water. Would all the movement from the car ride be responsible for all the chemical imbalances I have been experiencing since? My nitrates have consistently been off the charts, my ph has been between 7.8 and 8.2, but that changes back and forth all the time. I don't know whether to use ph buffer, or whether thats bad. I just want a stable tank for once! I've done almost weekly water changes of 10 gallons, and I have tried airing out the room all day hoping that the ph would rise that way. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

nodea717 · 10/23/2006, 01:39 PM

There may be experiencing some die off from the live rock, some sponges etc. could have died when exposed to air. The PH flucuations could be associated with low alkalinity. Best thing to do is continue with water changes and consider a two part additive, such as C-balance or Bionic. These will not only maintain your calcium, but will raise your alkalinity, this will greatly help maintain a stable PH around 8.3. I recommend a two part addition even for FOWLR tank just for the stability.
Cheers,
Don

Travis L. Stevens · 10/23/2006, 01:40 PM

The movement could have caused some of it, but it shouldn't be off the charts since most charts max at 150 ppm or more. I would suspect that the water quality in the tank originally was less than par.

The pH is a little bit different and a number of factors fall in such as is anything decomposing (which releases CO2), are there a lot of animals in it (which release CO2), do you have any macroalgae growing (which releases O2), what time of day are you testing (normally pH is ower at night), how much flow do you have (increases available oxygen), do you have flow aggitating the water surface (increases gas exchange), etc. But, pH is also effected by Alkalinity and Calcium. It sounds like a bunch of tests are in order. Make sure to test for these:

Water Temperature
Specific Gravity
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Phosphate (Not as important ATM)
pH
Alkalinity
Calcium
Magnesium (Not as important ATM)

With the limited knowledge that you have of what is going on, doing water changes is your best bet. Keep this up until you can find out what is going on.

ahullsb · 10/23/2006, 01:42 PM

I'll have to look up the two part additive, I don't even know what that is. The people before me gave me some ph buffer, and they have calcium supplements, along with some other random supplements. I just don't know which to use. My calcium levels have been around 420. You are right, two sponges died in the move, one was attached to a tiny rock so I pitched the whole thing, the other one I had to cut off at the base, but there is still a little attached to the rock. Maybe that's it?

ahullsb · 10/23/2006, 01:55 PM

the water temp. has been 78 degrees. the ammonia levels are 0. Nitrite is also 0. the nitrates have been either 80-160 I can't even tell anymore how red the tube actually is! I don't know the phosphate level but I will check. THe ph was 7.8 when I tested yesterday morning, and closer to 8.2 last night. I don't know if I have anything to test the alkalinity, but I'll check, calcium has been about 420, and I don't know the magnesium level but they did give me a magnesium and stronium additive. I just don't know which to use and which not to use I guess

Travis L. Stevens · 10/23/2006, 01:59 PM

First, check your Alkalinity to make sure that it is also in line with the other parameters. It doesn't sound like the Alk/Ca balance is causing the issue with the pH. FWIW, just keep up the water changes, read up on Two Part systems, don't add any buffers or supplements until you have a good understanding, and then take the approporiate action. The last thing that you want to do is load your tank down with pH buffer, shoot up your Alkalinity, drop your Calcium, and then screw other water parameters up. Trust me, I've done that one before. Check in Randy Holmes-Farley's Chemistry Forum here on Reef Central. At the top of the form there is a thread stickied with all of his articles and other related ones. Make sure you read up on all that relate to pH, Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium. After you do that, you should be prepared for almost everything that your tank will throw at you based on chemistry. A word of warning, grab food and drink, because you will be reading for a LONG time. But I promise it's well worth it.

ahullsb · 10/23/2006, 02:02 PM

thank you

Travis L. Stevens · 10/23/2006, 02:10 PM

No problem. Here, I'll save you a little time.

Chemistry Forum with Randy Holmes-Farley (and Boomer)
Reef Chemistry Articles

Helpful Articles
Reef Aquarium Water Parameters
Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
Low pH: Causes and Cures
High pH: Causes and Cures
How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between
Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH
When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?
Homemade Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Additive System
Improved Homemade Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Additive System
Calcium and Alkalinity
The Relationship Between Alkalinity and pH
Calcium
What is Alkalinity?

10/23/2006, 01:30 PM	#1
ahullsb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: sacramento, ca Posts: 2,729	help with nitrates and ph please! I bought an established 55 from someone more than a month ago. We moved everything including the water, in little over an hour. They insisted on draining it to just above sand level, but we kept the sand in there under water. Would all the movement from the car ride be responsible for all the chemical imbalances I have been experiencing since? My nitrates have consistently been off the charts, my ph has been between 7.8 and 8.2, but that changes back and forth all the time. I don't know whether to use ph buffer, or whether thats bad. I just want a stable tank for once! I've done almost weekly water changes of 10 gallons, and I have tried airing out the room all day hoping that the ph would rise that way. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

10/23/2006, 01:39 PM	#2
nodea717 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 69	There may be experiencing some die off from the live rock, some sponges etc. could have died when exposed to air. The PH flucuations could be associated with low alkalinity. Best thing to do is continue with water changes and consider a two part additive, such as C-balance or Bionic. These will not only maintain your calcium, but will raise your alkalinity, this will greatly help maintain a stable PH around 8.3. I recommend a two part addition even for FOWLR tank just for the stability. Cheers, Don __________________ Best thing to add to your tank is water Current Tank Info: 120gal / Lifereef LS-150 & Skimmer / PM622 Reactor /

10/23/2006, 01:40 PM	#3
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	The movement could have caused some of it, but it shouldn't be off the charts since most charts max at 150 ppm or more. I would suspect that the water quality in the tank originally was less than par. The pH is a little bit different and a number of factors fall in such as is anything decomposing (which releases CO2), are there a lot of animals in it (which release CO2), do you have any macroalgae growing (which releases O2), what time of day are you testing (normally pH is ower at night), how much flow do you have (increases available oxygen), do you have flow aggitating the water surface (increases gas exchange), etc. But, pH is also effected by Alkalinity and Calcium. It sounds like a bunch of tests are in order. Make sure to test for these: Water Temperature Specific Gravity Ammonia Nitrite Nitrate Phosphate (Not as important ATM) pH Alkalinity Calcium Magnesium (Not as important ATM) With the limited knowledge that you have of what is going on, doing water changes is your best bet. Keep this up until you can find out what is going on. __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

10/23/2006, 01:42 PM	#4
ahullsb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: sacramento, ca Posts: 2,729	I'll have to look up the two part additive, I don't even know what that is. The people before me gave me some ph buffer, and they have calcium supplements, along with some other random supplements. I just don't know which to use. My calcium levels have been around 420. You are right, two sponges died in the move, one was attached to a tiny rock so I pitched the whole thing, the other one I had to cut off at the base, but there is still a little attached to the rock. Maybe that's it? __________________ Andy Sacramento, CA Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef w/20 gallon sump/ER135/ 75 pounds of live rock, 4 in sandbed, 2 b&w ocellaris clowns, yellow watchman/pistol, rosy scaled wrasse, Mystery wrasse, Copperbanded Butterfly, Lighting 48" outer orbit 2 150 mh/ 4 t5 actinics

10/23/2006, 01:55 PM	#5
ahullsb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: sacramento, ca Posts: 2,729	the water temp. has been 78 degrees. the ammonia levels are 0. Nitrite is also 0. the nitrates have been either 80-160 I can't even tell anymore how red the tube actually is! I don't know the phosphate level but I will check. THe ph was 7.8 when I tested yesterday morning, and closer to 8.2 last night. I don't know if I have anything to test the alkalinity, but I'll check, calcium has been about 420, and I don't know the magnesium level but they did give me a magnesium and stronium additive. I just don't know which to use and which not to use I guess __________________ Andy Sacramento, CA Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef w/20 gallon sump/ER135/ 75 pounds of live rock, 4 in sandbed, 2 b&w ocellaris clowns, yellow watchman/pistol, rosy scaled wrasse, Mystery wrasse, Copperbanded Butterfly, Lighting 48" outer orbit 2 150 mh/ 4 t5 actinics

10/23/2006, 01:59 PM	#6
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	First, check your Alkalinity to make sure that it is also in line with the other parameters. It doesn't sound like the Alk/Ca balance is causing the issue with the pH. FWIW, just keep up the water changes, read up on Two Part systems, don't add any buffers or supplements until you have a good understanding, and then take the approporiate action. The last thing that you want to do is load your tank down with pH buffer, shoot up your Alkalinity, drop your Calcium, and then screw other water parameters up. Trust me, I've done that one before. Check in Randy Holmes-Farley's Chemistry Forum here on Reef Central. At the top of the form there is a thread stickied with all of his articles and other related ones. Make sure you read up on all that relate to pH, Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium. After you do that, you should be prepared for almost everything that your tank will throw at you based on chemistry. A word of warning, grab food and drink, because you will be reading for a LONG time. But I promise it's well worth it. __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

10/23/2006, 02:02 PM	#7
ahullsb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: sacramento, ca Posts: 2,729	thank you __________________ Andy Sacramento, CA Current Tank Info: 55 gallon reef w/20 gallon sump/ER135/ 75 pounds of live rock, 4 in sandbed, 2 b&w ocellaris clowns, yellow watchman/pistol, rosy scaled wrasse, Mystery wrasse, Copperbanded Butterfly, Lighting 48" outer orbit 2 150 mh/ 4 t5 actinics

10/23/2006, 02:10 PM	#8
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	No problem. Here, I'll save you a little time. Chemistry Forum with Randy Holmes-Farley (and Boomer) Reef Chemistry Articles Helpful Articles Reef Aquarium Water Parameters Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems Low pH: Causes and Cures High pH: Causes and Cures How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? Homemade Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Additive System Improved Homemade Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Additive System Calcium and Alkalinity The Relationship Between Alkalinity and pH Calcium What is Alkalinity? __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront