Clownfish dead - need urgent help

dannable · 11/04/2006, 02:06 PM

Despite what the LFS said about Flame Angels being reef friendly and non agressive my flame angel killed my clown fish. I added them the the aquarium (after acclimating for 1 hour) and the angel started picking at the clownfish after a few hours. they lived over night.

Is this probably why the clownfish died or could it be water params? I am guessing the stress of acclimation mixed with picking killed it. No visible signs of disease.

They told me the angel and the clownfish were in the same tank for 2.5 weeks with no problems but it was definetely picking on it.

If it killed my clownfish is it going to kill my cleaner shrimp as well? Somebody please let me know so I can save my cleaner shrimp before this happens.

I am so discouraged and sick of being lied to by the LFS's. Not to mention guilty about killing the poor clown.

What am I doing wrong?

SG 1.024
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate less than 5ppm
Phosphate .25 or a little higher.

Sk8r · 11/04/2006, 02:18 PM

So sorry to hear that. Angels belie their name. So do clowns, unfortunately---either one can be pushy. It's not a ravening killer: it was claiming territory, and may have felt cramped in a 35. Clowns can easily claim all of a 35---or a 50, if they're maroons. There is an online site that has a compatibility guide: Foster/Smith. I like to use it, on general principles.

Here's a quick rundown on compatibility:
Fish that are more bluster than bite: most blennies, most gobies. BUT don't get two of the same kind or that look alike. Rivalry.
Fish that can get very aggro: triggers, angels, dottybacks, wrasses, some eels.
Fish that pick corals: some triggers, angels, tangs, butterflies.
Fish that are venomous: some blennies [fanged blennies, not the comb-tooths], lionfish, stonefish, toadfish, and rabbitfish.
Fish that can deal injury to tankmates in a territorial demonstration: see aggro list---and add the venomed lot. Tangs are particularly bad about sideswipes. And I'm sure I'm leaving out a few. Not to mention clowns themselves, and damsels: nippers and biters, and they have teeth. If you long to have clowns, the percs seem better behaved than some.

In a 35, look to the gobies and blennies for your most compatible and size-appropriate fish, re territorial squabbles. Their max length tends to be 2-6", and that will give you a lot of color and motion in your tank without nipped fins.

dannable · 11/04/2006, 02:27 PM

So could it have been water params or was it simply acclimation\aggression?

Is my cleaner shrimp in any danger??

Randall_James · 11/04/2006, 02:41 PM

My flame has never bothered my clown (2+ years together) The clown was in the tank at least a year before the Angel however.

At this point I would just worry about keeping the Flame Angel alive. They have not been doing very well the last couple years for some reason (perhaps collection practices).

I would hope also this enlightens you to the importance of quarantine tanks. I doubt that the Angel stressed the clown to a premature death overnight (healthy clowns can take care of themselves and are pretty hardy fish. Not that it is impossible but just unlikely.

dannable · 11/04/2006, 03:23 PM

How big was your tank? I have a 35 gallon, maybe it was a size issue.

dannable · 11/04/2006, 03:29 PM

I have read that you should not put a flame angel in with a smaller tank mate? My clown was only like half an inch and the angel is like 2.5 inches.

I feel like a failure. I did so much research and was so patient. Very frustrating. I hope my flame angel lives.

dannable · 11/04/2006, 06:23 PM

Bump

phishy2 · 11/04/2006, 06:37 PM

my flame and tomato clown got along well together, the clown was also introduced months before the flame.... my flame died when i did the first water change with it in the tank, never found out why the parameters were all good and did everything i always do... i do however think the flame angel killed my first midas blenny but have no proof...

chrisstie · 11/04/2006, 07:31 PM

I think in the event of any fish death, even if aggro was the cause (and probably stress due to it as well).. it is always a good idea to check and double check your water parameters. It can give you an idea of whats going on in your tank...

For example should you be doing a water change due to some underlying cause you find in the results? or worry about your angel if the tests show that there isn't anything wrong with your tank.

I'd also recommend a water change to cover any "just in case" possibilities.

JamesJR · 11/04/2006, 07:34 PM

I think it is unlikely that a flame angel would have killed clownfish. I have never heard of anything like that before. Test your water parameters. Then go back up to the fish store you got the fish from. I would take a good look at their clowns, especially if the ones you got came in as a group. If something looks funny than chances are your fish had the same thing.

dannable · 11/04/2006, 08:20 PM

I checked and double checked.

Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
PH 8.4
SG 1.024

My clownfish was very small compared to the angel. Like 1/4 of its size. I think I made mistake adding them at the same time.

I have also had a cleaner shrimp for 2 weeks without any problems. He even molted successfully. If the shrimp lived 2 weeks is that not a good sign??

Now i noticed some white spots on the fin of my flame angel. Does that always mean Ich? His body and gills are clean. The clownfish did not have ich but he looked injured from the Angel picking on him.

I must say I am definetely setting up a quarantine tank starting tomorrow. I have learned the big lesson. I should have done this in the first place.

dannable · 11/04/2006, 09:47 PM

bump

11/04/2006, 02:06 PM	#1
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	Clownfish dead - need urgent help Despite what the LFS said about Flame Angels being reef friendly and non agressive my flame angel killed my clown fish. I added them the the aquarium (after acclimating for 1 hour) and the angel started picking at the clownfish after a few hours. they lived over night. Is this probably why the clownfish died or could it be water params? I am guessing the stress of acclimation mixed with picking killed it. No visible signs of disease. They told me the angel and the clownfish were in the same tank for 2.5 weeks with no problems but it was definetely picking on it. If it killed my clownfish is it going to kill my cleaner shrimp as well? Somebody please let me know so I can save my cleaner shrimp before this happens. I am so discouraged and sick of being lied to by the LFS's. Not to mention guilty about killing the poor clown. What am I doing wrong? SG 1.024 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate less than 5ppm Phosphate .25 or a little higher.

11/04/2006, 02:18 PM	#2
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	So sorry to hear that. Angels belie their name. So do clowns, unfortunately---either one can be pushy. It's not a ravening killer: it was claiming territory, and may have felt cramped in a 35. Clowns can easily claim all of a 35---or a 50, if they're maroons. There is an online site that has a compatibility guide: Foster/Smith. I like to use it, on general principles. Here's a quick rundown on compatibility: Fish that are more bluster than bite: most blennies, most gobies. BUT don't get two of the same kind or that look alike. Rivalry. Fish that can get very aggro: triggers, angels, dottybacks, wrasses, some eels. Fish that pick corals: some triggers, angels, tangs, butterflies. Fish that are venomous: some blennies [fanged blennies, not the comb-tooths], lionfish, stonefish, toadfish, and rabbitfish. Fish that can deal injury to tankmates in a territorial demonstration: see aggro list---and add the venomed lot. Tangs are particularly bad about sideswipes. And I'm sure I'm leaving out a few. Not to mention clowns themselves, and damsels: nippers and biters, and they have teeth. If you long to have clowns, the percs seem better behaved than some. In a 35, look to the gobies and blennies for your most compatible and size-appropriate fish, re territorial squabbles. Their max length tends to be 2-6", and that will give you a lot of color and motion in your tank without nipped fins. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/04/2006, 02:41 PM	#4
Randall_James Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,727	My flame has never bothered my clown (2+ years together) The clown was in the tank at least a year before the Angel however. At this point I would just worry about keeping the Flame Angel alive. They have not been doing very well the last couple years for some reason (perhaps collection practices). I would hope also this enlightens you to the importance of quarantine tanks. I doubt that the Angel stressed the clown to a premature death overnight (healthy clowns can take care of themselves and are pretty hardy fish. Not that it is impossible but just unlikely. __________________ "It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"

11/04/2006, 06:37 PM	#8
phishy2 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 190	my flame and tomato clown got along well together, the clown was also introduced months before the flame.... my flame died when i did the first water change with it in the tank, never found out why the parameters were all good and did everything i always do... i do however think the flame angel killed my first midas blenny but have no proof... __________________ Phishy Current Tank Info: 37gal, tomato clown, midas blenny, royal gramma, lawnmower blenny, cleanup crew, closed brain, pavona, zoathids, haitian condy, pink birdsnest, 29gal african cichlids, 75gal african cichlids

11/04/2006, 07:31 PM	#9
chrisstie Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 4,727	I think in the event of any fish death, even if aggro was the cause (and probably stress due to it as well).. it is always a good idea to check and double check your water parameters. It can give you an idea of whats going on in your tank... For example should you be doing a water change due to some underlying cause you find in the results? or worry about your angel if the tests show that there isn't anything wrong with your tank. I'd also recommend a water change to cover any "just in case" possibilities. __________________ You lookin' at my wrasse? Current Tank Info: I find it odd that there are children starving in this country and yet we euthanize millions of stray dogs and cats every year and then incinerate the bodies. Not only that, but we make it illegal to butcher the meat. -MarkS

11/04/2006, 02:27 PM	#3
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	So could it have been water params or was it simply acclimation\aggression? Is my cleaner shrimp in any danger??

11/04/2006, 03:23 PM	#5
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	How big was your tank? I have a 35 gallon, maybe it was a size issue.

11/04/2006, 03:29 PM	#6
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	I have read that you should not put a flame angel in with a smaller tank mate? My clown was only like half an inch and the angel is like 2.5 inches. I feel like a failure. I did so much research and was so patient. Very frustrating. I hope my flame angel lives.

11/04/2006, 06:23 PM	#7
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	Bump

11/04/2006, 07:34 PM	#10
JamesJR Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,733	I think it is unlikely that a flame angel would have killed clownfish. I have never heard of anything like that before. Test your water parameters. Then go back up to the fish store you got the fish from. I would take a good look at their clowns, especially if the ones you got came in as a group. If something looks funny than chances are your fish had the same thing. __________________ Just when I thought you couldn't be any dumber you go and do something like this....And totally redeem yourself! Current Tank Info: 20 gallon

11/04/2006, 08:20 PM	#11
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	I checked and double checked. Nitrite 0 Ammonia 0 PH 8.4 SG 1.024 My clownfish was very small compared to the angel. Like 1/4 of its size. I think I made mistake adding them at the same time. I have also had a cleaner shrimp for 2 weeks without any problems. He even molted successfully. If the shrimp lived 2 weeks is that not a good sign?? Now i noticed some white spots on the fin of my flame angel. Does that always mean Ich? His body and gills are clean. The clownfish did not have ich but he looked injured from the Angel picking on him. I must say I am definetely setting up a quarantine tank starting tomorrow. I have learned the big lesson. I should have done this in the first place.

11/04/2006, 09:47 PM	#12
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	bump