Water softener question

israelnajar · 11/11/2006, 11:57 PM

I have a full water softener in my house that uses potassium cloride for the brine tank. I did fill my tank with this water and cycled with it but had problems with low pH and alk and high calcium(~950) I have since stopped using the softener water and started using treated tap water, since my softwater pH is around 7.4 (areating for 24hours) and my treated tap is at 8.2. I now have my pH and alk under control and my calcium is around 600, doing water changes to lower that, since there is not much in the tank using the calcium. I have gotten tired of bypassing my softener to get the reguar tap water and started wondering is there a way that I could use my soft water and somehow raise the pH without adding a pH booster at every waterchange.

As of now I do not have the money to add an RO/DI before the softener but I am planning on it when I can scrounge up some cash. So this is the best I can do as of now.

Thanks

Israel

dannable · 11/12/2006, 10:00 AM

I also have a water softener although now I am using RO water. I use "instant Ocean" salt and it automatically adjusts the PH to around 8.4. Maybe you are using a salt that does not do this.

Boomer · 11/12/2006, 10:24 AM

Is

There is something wrong here. A water softener makes the water softener, meaning it removes the Calcium, it dose not add Calcium. When one has a softener the RO/DI is added not before the softener but after the softener. Hard water will deplete a RO/DI faster. The pH of RO/DI is below 7.

To do this exchange the water in the house runs through a bed of zeolite. The zeolites are covered with potassium. As the water flows past the potassium on the zeolite they swap places with the calcium and magnesium ions in the water. In time, the zeolite contains nothing but calcium and magnesium and no potassium. At this point the zeolite needs to be regenerated and the water can not be softened anymore. The system is switched over to do the regeneration of the zeolite. Here a potassium chloride solution is washed into the zeolite and an exchange takes place where the potassium swaps/removes/exchanges for the calcium and magnesium ions on the zeolite. This water high in calcium and magnesium is then flushed out down the drain. The system is then switched back to softener mode and it is read to go and start softening the water again. This is a continuous cycle ever few days or so.

Were are you collecting the water from the softener drain or from the tap/sink faucet. ? The drain may give you what you got. It sounds like you are using water form the softener when it is regenerating or you are doing something to make it regenerate and it is that water you are using. Check the Ca++ level of the water form the kitchen sink. If it is still high call the water softener guy as something is very wrong.

Finally, take that water some place and have them test it for you. That 950 ppm maybe a testing error or you are using the kit wrong. There is no such thing as tap water/well water or any water for humans that is 950 ppm. That equates to a hardness level of 2375 ppm TDS as CaCO3.

israelnajar · 11/12/2006, 11:59 AM

I use IO and even after leting it sit in my tub for 24 hours the pH is still very low.

I understand how the water softener works. And my system is set to recharge at 2:00am and I know that I am not getting the water from the softener drain. I did have my tank water checked at my LFS and calcium was at 650 so I know my test kits are correct. I have not checked the calcium levels after the water has been softened so I will do that today and see where that is at.

Even if my softwater has normal calcium that still doesnt answer how I canget the pH up, or should I first see if the softener is leaving tons of calcium before I do anything else?

israelnajar · 11/12/2006, 12:10 PM

Just check calcium of my tapwater from the softener and that stands at 30mg/l

Boomer · 11/12/2006, 02:13 PM

All of that calcium will pull down the Alk, which will pull down the pH. Check the Alk of the tank.

If the tap is now 30mg / l then the softener must have been full and was dumping all that Ca++ . IO has about 380 or so so 950 -380 = 570 . So,some how the water softener system dumped all its Ca++ into the water you were using to make a seamix with. It is the only way that can happen other than a testing error, which you say the reading is correct.

israelnajar · 11/12/2006, 05:52 PM

Maybe. So I can use the water with no problems? I should just check the calcium before and or after I mix my salt?

Boomer · 11/12/2006, 10:58 PM

If you want to but we advise not to and to use RO/DI. And yes check the Ca ++ and Alk of the WS output before you make up a seamix.

If you stay with this that IO 380 ppm + 30 WS = 410 Ca++ final seawater.

Just checking on you

But by any chance did you add anything like Puple-Up to the tank ?

israelnajar · 11/13/2006, 08:58 AM

Thanks for your help. And the only chemical I have added to my tank is stability.

Boomer · 11/13/2006, 10:57 AM

Ok the SeaChem bact stuff

stoneroller · 11/13/2006, 06:02 PM

Hitchhiking, sorry. Due to a disaster, I now have a reef tank (polyps and mushrooms) which had been running for several years at a friend's house. Seems it made the trip to my house in good order. I have a new, operational, water softener and a RO. I can collect untreated tapwater through an outside faucet. Our house water supply is from a karst aquifer.

I would like guidance on what would be best for makeup water and for water changes. Should I use the softened RO water for both? Special treatments?

What's the deal with purple up?

PS. I have few test kits: ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Boomer · 11/13/2006, 06:10 PM

Right now are the WS and RO hooked up to each other ?

Tap/well==>WS==>RO==> faucet

Boomer · 11/13/2006, 07:14 PM

I forgot, Purple-Up. It is a mixture of carb's and bicarb's with some very finel ground aragonite. At times this aragonite does not go into solution. People keep adding the stuff for Alk and Ca++. Then someday the pH is just right, usually low and ......POOF........ all that fine aragonite goes into solution and the Alk and Ca++ are through the roof, sometimes followed by a low pH in the mid 7's. We can a post on forums about 1 /m on this issue.

stoneroller · 11/13/2006, 07:48 PM

Yes. well>ws>ro>faucet

Boomer · 11/13/2006, 08:59 PM

Well, karst means limestone and losts of Ca, Mg & carbonates. But we do not know what else is in the water. The RO will remove about 95-98 % of the orginal TDS of the well and that still could be high, i.e. TDS 400 x .95 = 380 removes and 20 ppm left. We shoot for 0-1 ppm.

If you decide to not go with a RO/DI just for the tank, then only use the well>ws>ro>faucet water for salt mixing and top-off

Some things to read.

Tap Water in Reef Aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm

What is TDS?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php

Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm

stoneroller · 11/13/2006, 10:11 PM

Thanks so much. Indeed high calcium [] and hardness; water is from the Barton Springs segment of the Edwards Aquifer in Central Texas.

Seems it will be (too) easy to snowball off the readings! e.g., read an interesting article on toxicity of salt mixes on urchin larvae.

cthetoy · 11/14/2006, 09:59 AM

FYI. Having a RO/DI after a water softener increase the life of the membrame as well

Quote from Spectrapure site
"Water Softeners remove hardness (calcium and magnesium salts) from water supplies by passing the water through ion-exchange resin beds. Using a Water Softener significantly reduces the waste water from RO and RO/DI Systems, and greatly increases membrane life. "

israelnajar · 11/15/2006, 05:20 PM

Well I filled my mixing container with 5 gallons of FW and tested calc(30) pH(7.4) and alk(1dkh). Then I mixed my salt into the container and let it sit with a powerhead and heater. Tested it again cal(900) pH(8.2) and alk(8dkh). What the heck is wrong? If I do get an RO and connect that up to a softwater line will I still have this problem? OR should I just connect it to a nonsoftened water line? Maybe just junk the softener?

Boomer · 11/15/2006, 10:14 PM

I think I know what your problem is

I should have caught this earlier

Your kit is NOT giving Calcium, as Calcium but as Calcium Carbonate, which is NOT the same. Some odd ball kits express Calcium as CaCO3/ Calcium Carbonate. This has to be conveted into Ca++/Calcium

Lets do the math

IO is usually 360-380 ppm Ca++. A kit like yours, reading it as CaCO3, has to convert that and that conversion is .40

950 x .40 =380 ppm Ca++
900 x .40 = 360 ppm Ca++

Your WS then;

30 ppm x .40 = 12 ppm Ca++

So, there is nothiung wrong. Look at your kit and re-read the instructions.

israelnajar · 11/16/2006, 08:11 AM

Well that makes more sense. When I get back home I will reread the instructions.

Thanks

israelnajar · 11/20/2006, 11:43 AM

Test kit is Instant Ocean brand and doesnt say anything about being calcium carbonate, just calcium. The other test kit I have is aquarium pharamacuticles, same thing nothing about carbonate.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 11/20/2006, 12:26 PM

I do not recommend using tap water in any situation, but in your case, you should not keep using the tap water that has elevated calcium since you already have elevated calcium.

I probably also would not use water softened with potassium chloride, since it could potentially have a large amount of potassium in it, potentially boosting potassium in the tank too much. Either use sodium chloride for softening, or preferably, use purified water.

I'd attack the tank pH using limewater or more aeration with fresh air.

What salt mix are you using?

israelnajar · 11/20/2006, 12:45 PM

I guess I will ask Santa for an RO/DI for Christmas then.

But I think I have my pH under control for now, it is stable at 8.0 and I am using Instant Ocean as my salt mix. I did do a water change on sunday and didnt realize that I used the softwater with high calcium. One test says 750 and the other says 2250. So I will probably get a different test other than the ones I have and purchase some water from the store until I can get an RO.

When I do get an RO would I be able to use the softwater or should I put the RO before the softener? Also, I will pull out my pot. chl. and start using the sodium.

The only thing I added recently was stability since I added 1 fish.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 11/20/2006, 01:20 PM

Softened water is OK for the RO. Maybe better for it since it may extend the life of the RO membrane (by making precipitation of calcium and magnesium carbonate on it less likely), although it may make the DI work a little bit harder to reject the potassium or sodium than the calcium or magnesium that it replaced.

Boomer · 11/20/2006, 05:04 PM

This still does not make sense Randy . The water softener has an output of 30 ppm Calcium. He mixes up the salt in that WS water and the calcium is through the roof. How can he have 30 ppm and it jumps to 650, 750, 900 etc.. just by adding salt to it. Unless it is a bad batch of IO with very high calcium or all test are from a testing error.

One test says 750 and the other says 2250........ others 900 , 950, LFS test 650

The Instant Ocean kit measure it as Ca ++, the way we want it to measure

Calcium Test Range: 0-500mg/L Calcium (Ca2+)

The AP kit is the same as Ca++ and not CaCO3

11/11/2006, 11:57 PM	#1
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	Water softener question I have a full water softener in my house that uses potassium cloride for the brine tank. I did fill my tank with this water and cycled with it but had problems with low pH and alk and high calcium(~950) I have since stopped using the softener water and started using treated tap water, since my softwater pH is around 7.4 (areating for 24hours) and my treated tap is at 8.2. I now have my pH and alk under control and my calcium is around 600, doing water changes to lower that, since there is not much in the tank using the calcium. I have gotten tired of bypassing my softener to get the reguar tap water and started wondering is there a way that I could use my soft water and somehow raise the pH without adding a pH booster at every waterchange. As of now I do not have the money to add an RO/DI before the softener but I am planning on it when I can scrounge up some cash. So this is the best I can do as of now. Thanks Israel

11/12/2006, 11:59 AM	#4
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	I use IO and even after leting it sit in my tub for 24 hours the pH is still very low. I understand how the water softener works. And my system is set to recharge at 2:00am and I know that I am not getting the water from the softener drain. I did have my tank water checked at my LFS and calcium was at 650 so I know my test kits are correct. I have not checked the calcium levels after the water has been softened so I will do that today and see where that is at. Even if my softwater has normal calcium that still doesnt answer how I canget the pH up, or should I first see if the softener is leaving tons of calcium before I do anything else? __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/12/2006, 12:10 PM	#5
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	Just check calcium of my tapwater from the softener and that stands at 30mg/l __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/12/2006, 02:13 PM	#6
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	All of that calcium will pull down the Alk, which will pull down the pH. Check the Alk of the tank. If the tap is now 30mg / l then the softener must have been full and was dumping all that Ca++ . IO has about 380 or so so 950 -380 = 570 . So,some how the water softener system dumped all its Ca++ into the water you were using to make a seamix with. It is the only way that can happen other than a testing error, which you say the reading is correct. __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

11/12/2006, 05:52 PM	#7
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	Maybe. So I can use the water with no problems? I should just check the calcium before and or after I mix my salt? __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/12/2006, 10:00 AM	#2
dannable Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Guelph Ontario, Canada Posts: 430	I also have a water softener although now I am using RO water. I use "instant Ocean" salt and it automatically adjusts the PH to around 8.4. Maybe you are using a salt that does not do this.

11/12/2006, 10:24 AM	#3
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Is There is something wrong here. A water softener makes the water softener, meaning it removes the Calcium, it dose not add Calcium. When one has a softener the RO/DI is added not before the softener but after the softener. Hard water will deplete a RO/DI faster. The pH of RO/DI is below 7. To do this exchange the water in the house runs through a bed of zeolite. The zeolites are covered with potassium. As the water flows past the potassium on the zeolite they swap places with the calcium and magnesium ions in the water. In time, the zeolite contains nothing but calcium and magnesium and no potassium. At this point the zeolite needs to be regenerated and the water can not be softened anymore. The system is switched over to do the regeneration of the zeolite. Here a potassium chloride solution is washed into the zeolite and an exchange takes place where the potassium swaps/removes/exchanges for the calcium and magnesium ions on the zeolite. This water high in calcium and magnesium is then flushed out down the drain. The system is then switched back to softener mode and it is read to go and start softening the water again. This is a continuous cycle ever few days or so. Were are you collecting the water from the softener drain or from the tap/sink faucet. ? The drain may give you what you got. It sounds like you are using water form the softener when it is regenerating or you are doing something to make it regenerate and it is that water you are using. Check the Ca++ level of the water form the kitchen sink. If it is still high call the water softener guy as something is very wrong. Finally, take that water some place and have them test it for you. That 950 ppm maybe a testing error or you are using the kit wrong. There is no such thing as tap water/well water or any water for humans that is 950 ppm. That equates to a hardness level of 2375 ppm TDS as CaCO3.

11/12/2006, 10:58 PM	#8
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	If you want to but we advise not to and to use RO/DI. And yes check the Ca ++ and Alk of the WS output before you make up a seamix. If you stay with this that IO 380 ppm + 30 WS = 410 Ca++ final seawater. Just checking on you But by any chance did you add anything like Puple-Up to the tank ? __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

11/13/2006, 08:58 AM	#9
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	Thanks for your help. And the only chemical I have added to my tank is stability. __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/13/2006, 10:57 AM	#10
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Ok the SeaChem bact stuff __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

11/13/2006, 06:02 PM	#11
stoneroller Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Buda TX Posts: 278	Hitchhiking, sorry. Due to a disaster, I now have a reef tank (polyps and mushrooms) which had been running for several years at a friend's house. Seems it made the trip to my house in good order. I have a new, operational, water softener and a RO. I can collect untreated tapwater through an outside faucet. Our house water supply is from a karst aquifer. I would like guidance on what would be best for makeup water and for water changes. Should I use the softened RO water for both? Special treatments? What's the deal with purple up? PS. I have few test kits: ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

11/13/2006, 06:10 PM	#12
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Right now are the WS and RO hooked up to each other ? Tap/well==>WS==>RO==> faucet __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

11/13/2006, 07:14 PM	#13
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	I forgot, Purple-Up. It is a mixture of carb's and bicarb's with some very finel ground aragonite. At times this aragonite does not go into solution. People keep adding the stuff for Alk and Ca++. Then someday the pH is just right, usually low and ......POOF........ all that fine aragonite goes into solution and the Alk and Ca++ are through the roof, sometimes followed by a low pH in the mid 7's. We can a post on forums about 1 /m on this issue. __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

11/13/2006, 07:48 PM	#14
stoneroller Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Buda TX Posts: 278	Yes. well>ws>ro>faucet

11/13/2006, 08:59 PM	#15
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	Well, karst means limestone and losts of Ca, Mg & carbonates. But we do not know what else is in the water. The RO will remove about 95-98 % of the orginal TDS of the well and that still could be high, i.e. TDS 400 x .95 = 380 removes and 20 ppm left. We shoot for 0-1 ppm. If you decide to not go with a RO/DI just for the tank, then only use the well>ws>ro>faucet water for salt mixing and top-off Some things to read. Tap Water in Reef Aquaria http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm What is TDS? http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...ture/index.php Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.htm __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.

11/13/2006, 10:11 PM	#16
stoneroller Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Buda TX Posts: 278	Thanks so much. Indeed high calcium [] and hardness; water is from the Barton Springs segment of the Edwards Aquifer in Central Texas. Seems it will be (too) easy to snowball off the readings! e.g., read an interesting article on toxicity of salt mixes on urchin larvae.

11/14/2006, 09:59 AM	#17
cthetoy Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,891	FYI. Having a RO/DI after a water softener increase the life of the membrame as well Quote from Spectrapure site "Water Softeners remove hardness (calcium and magnesium salts) from water supplies by passing the water through ion-exchange resin beds. Using a Water Softener significantly reduces the waste water from RO and RO/DI Systems, and greatly increases membrane life. "

11/15/2006, 05:20 PM	#18
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	Well I filled my mixing container with 5 gallons of FW and tested calc(30) pH(7.4) and alk(1dkh). Then I mixed my salt into the container and let it sit with a powerhead and heater. Tested it again cal(900) pH(8.2) and alk(8dkh). What the heck is wrong? If I do get an RO and connect that up to a softwater line will I still have this problem? OR should I just connect it to a nonsoftened water line? Maybe just junk the softener? __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/15/2006, 10:14 PM	#19
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	I think I know what your problem is I should have caught this earlier Your kit is NOT giving Calcium, as Calcium but as Calcium Carbonate, which is NOT the same. Some odd ball kits express Calcium as CaCO3/ Calcium Carbonate. This has to be conveted into Ca++/Calcium Lets do the math IO is usually 360-380 ppm Ca++. A kit like yours, reading it as CaCO3, has to convert that and that conversion is .40 950 x .40 =380 ppm Ca++ 900 x .40 = 360 ppm Ca++ Your WS then; 30 ppm x .40 = 12 ppm Ca++ So, there is nothiung wrong. Look at your kit and re-read the instructions.

11/16/2006, 08:11 AM	#20
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	Well that makes more sense. When I get back home I will reread the instructions. Thanks __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/20/2006, 11:43 AM	#21
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	Test kit is Instant Ocean brand and doesnt say anything about being calcium carbonate, just calcium. The other test kit I have is aquarium pharamacuticles, same thing nothing about carbonate. __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/20/2006, 12:26 PM	#22
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I do not recommend using tap water in any situation, but in your case, you should not keep using the tap water that has elevated calcium since you already have elevated calcium. I probably also would not use water softened with potassium chloride, since it could potentially have a large amount of potassium in it, potentially boosting potassium in the tank too much. Either use sodium chloride for softening, or preferably, use purified water. I'd attack the tank pH using limewater or more aeration with fresh air. What salt mix are you using? __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

11/20/2006, 12:45 PM	#23
israelnajar Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: 5000 Feet Posts: 1,007	I guess I will ask Santa for an RO/DI for Christmas then. But I think I have my pH under control for now, it is stable at 8.0 and I am using Instant Ocean as my salt mix. I did do a water change on sunday and didnt realize that I used the softwater with high calcium. One test says 750 and the other says 2250. So I will probably get a different test other than the ones I have and purchase some water from the store until I can get an RO. When I do get an RO would I be able to use the softwater or should I put the RO before the softener? Also, I will pull out my pot. chl. and start using the sodium. The only thing I added recently was stability since I added 1 fish. __________________ I would never do such a thing unless you would already have been going to do that!

11/20/2006, 01:20 PM	#24
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Softened water is OK for the RO. Maybe better for it since it may extend the life of the RO membrane (by making precipitation of calcium and magnesium carbonate on it less likely), although it may make the DI work a little bit harder to reject the potassium or sodium than the calcium or magnesium that it replaced. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

11/20/2006, 05:04 PM	#25
Boomer Bomb Technician (EOD) Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 11,842	This still does not make sense Randy . The water softener has an output of 30 ppm Calcium. He mixes up the salt in that WS water and the calcium is through the roof. How can he have 30 ppm and it jumps to 650, 750, 900 etc.. just by adding salt to it. Unless it is a bad batch of IO with very high calcium or all test are from a testing error. One test says 750 and the other says 2250........ others 900 , 950, LFS test 650 The Instant Ocean kit measure it as Ca ++, the way we want it to measure Calcium Test Range: 0-500mg/L Calcium (Ca2+) The AP kit is the same as Ca++ and not CaCO3 __________________ If you See Me Running You Better Catch-Up Seawater Chemistry, Geology, ID Marine Life, Collecting Science Books, Explosives Technology, Audiophile An explosion can be defined as a loud noise, accompanied by the sudden going away of things, from a place where they use to be.