[help] high phosphate level

pencilcup · 11/17/2006, 11:00 AM

Hi the expert,

I just wonder if bad RO filter could be the cause of high level of phosphate in the tank?

I'm experiencing the dark brown algea on my sand bed recently. I tested my parameters and found out that my phosphate is at > .5. The only change I made to my system within this recent 2 month was I change a set of new RO filters. (I don't have a TDS with me)

Thanks

WDLV · 11/17/2006, 11:11 AM

It's difficult to pinpoint the cause if I were looking at your system, but here's a few things I'd suggest looking into having not seen your system.
I would test your tap water for phosphate, then test the output of the filter for a comparison.
I don't know how old your system is, but I will say that I have had a small cyano bloom in the early months of every tank I've ever set up. It usually went away with little intervention.
In the case of an established tank, I think the most common source is poor skimming and inadequate water changes for the system bioload. In other words dirty water. You might also try syphoning your sand taking care to insure that anything you stir up goes into the syphon (except the sand.) Increasing the water flow and making sure you're not over feeding may also help.

One other thing. Obtain a sample of water from near the sandbed and test that for phosphate. You may find that the readings are higher there.

I control mine with large water changes (30-60% per month) 50+ times the tank's water volume circulated per hour, and a bare bottom. The usual disclaimer being that I believe there are many ways to run a system right. This just happens to be what is currently working for me.

MarkD40 · 11/17/2006, 11:30 AM

Try a phosban reactor. I had a hair algae problem for years that went away 1 month after adding the phosban reactor. For the first time in the 8 years my tank has been up I have zero hair algae and zero cyano. I am moving my turbo's to my refugium because if I don't they will starve to death in my display. Well worth the $50 start up cost.

RichConley · 11/17/2006, 11:37 AM

Test the RO for phosphate, that will tell you if its the problem. I doubt it is.

its most likely just innefective skimming/flow/etc.

WDLV · 11/17/2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkD40
Try a phosban reactor. I had a hair algae problem for years that went away 1 month after adding the phosban reactor. For the first time in the 8 years my tank has been up I have zero hair algae and zero cyano. I am moving my turbo's to my refugium because if I don't they will starve to death in my display. Well worth the $50 start up cost.

Why to you attribute your success to a phosphate reactor if there's still food food for the turbos in your refugium?
I presume that you meant that there was something other than macro growing in there that the turbos could eat.
If that is the case, it kind of erodes the theory of the phosban having removed the algae's nutrient source. Doesn't it??? Could there be something else eating the algae? A tang or something perhaps.
Not trying to be mean, just inquisitive.

Scudd · 11/17/2006, 12:19 PM

I've had good luck running the Phosban reactor. I had a problem with Cyno and some hair aglae, but after running the reactor for a one to two months it cleared up. It might be coincidence, but I dont think so...

MarkD40 · 11/17/2006, 02:47 PM

Wet sleeves,

After putting in the phosban reactor the growth of macro slowed to such an extent that my turbo snails were able to clear it from my tank. I tried everything else, RO/DI, DSB in my 75 gallon sump, increased flow in my display, Improved lighting, refugium with chaetomorphia, many snails, lighter feedings etc, etc, etc. These measures helped but I still had a fair amount of hair and cyano I could not get rid of. My tank was not overgrown, but macro was growing in the nooks and crannies.

It was only after I installed the phosban reactor that the algae disappeared. Macro algae is photosynthetric and can hang on even with relatively low nutrient levels once it gets a foothold. I still get a light coating of algae on my glass that needs to be cleaned off twice per week but that is to be expected. My refugium lights are on 24/7 and had no snails in it to eat macro, so I was growing macro algae that is not hair algae to some extent. Because I never clean the glass in the refugium the algae does build up over time and helps to further aid in nutient export.

I did not mean to suggest that adding a phosban reactor will solve everyones problem, but in my case after doing everything else I could to make life unpleasent for macro I still had some. Phosban did the trick. I will probably need to bring my snails to my LFS when they eat all of the algae in my refugium.

WDLV · 11/17/2006, 02:59 PM

Thanks, I appreciate the response.
BTW, that's a huge sump for a 110 gallon! I should think the Snails will stay busy for a while.

MarkD40 · 11/17/2006, 03:51 PM

My display is 110 gallons. I have a 75 gallon sump with a 6" DSB and 100 lbs of LR suspended above the sand on eggcrate. My sump is in the dark so no algae but lots of tube worms. My refugium is a 20 gallon tank with an eggcrate bottom suspended about 4" off the bottom of the tank with the eggcrate covered with a layer of coral rubble. The area under the eggcrate acts as an undisturbed benthic zone where lots of tube worms and sponges grow and many pods live and breed. You are correct that it won't take long for the Turbos to mow down the algae in my refugium.

WDLV · 11/17/2006, 08:34 PM

MarkD40,
so as not to hijack the thread.... YGPM

Headreefer · 11/17/2006, 09:48 PM

Phosban reactor is the shizzle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look for PURA phosphate remover.......its fine like ROWAPhos, but half the price. Finer than Phosban sized particles seem to remove more PO4 faster and last longer, you just have to adjust the inflow so that the particles barely "boil" or else they'll be released back into the sump or wherever u plumbed it. But water changes do the same thing really. I'm not sure which is more expensive salt or PO4 remover......would be interesting to try. BTW PURA also makes a nitrate remover that works so so in the phosban reactor. But when your talkin about nitrate thats a whole-nother ballgame!!

11/17/2006, 11:00 AM	#1
pencilcup Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 65	[help] high phosphate level Hi the expert, I just wonder if bad RO filter could be the cause of high level of phosphate in the tank? I'm experiencing the dark brown algea on my sand bed recently. I tested my parameters and found out that my phosphate is at > .5. The only change I made to my system within this recent 2 month was I change a set of new RO filters. (I don't have a TDS with me) Thanks

11/17/2006, 11:11 AM	#2
WDLV Skunk Hybrid Freak Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Pasadena, MD. USA Posts: 3,003	It's difficult to pinpoint the cause if I were looking at your system, but here's a few things I'd suggest looking into having not seen your system. I would test your tap water for phosphate, then test the output of the filter for a comparison. I don't know how old your system is, but I will say that I have had a small cyano bloom in the early months of every tank I've ever set up. It usually went away with little intervention. In the case of an established tank, I think the most common source is poor skimming and inadequate water changes for the system bioload. In other words dirty water. You might also try syphoning your sand taking care to insure that anything you stir up goes into the syphon (except the sand.) Increasing the water flow and making sure you're not over feeding may also help. One other thing. Obtain a sample of water from near the sandbed and test that for phosphate. You may find that the readings are higher there. I control mine with large water changes (30-60% per month) 50+ times the tank's water volume circulated per hour, and a bare bottom. The usual disclaimer being that I believe there are many ways to run a system right. This just happens to be what is currently working for me. __________________ - Walter D. LaRoque V "The tanks go or I go." - Ex Wife

11/17/2006, 11:30 AM	#3
MarkD40 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 647	Try a phosban reactor. I had a hair algae problem for years that went away 1 month after adding the phosban reactor. For the first time in the 8 years my tank has been up I have zero hair algae and zero cyano. I am moving my turbo's to my refugium because if I don't they will starve to death in my display. Well worth the $50 start up cost. __________________ My ship came in. Unfortunately it hit a reef. Current Tank Info: 110 gallon reef display tank, fish, LPS, SPS and mushrooms. A 75 gallon sump in basement with protein skimmer, 40watt UV sterilizer, RO/DI, refugium with chaeto, phosban reactor. 40 gallon frag tank.

11/17/2006, 11:37 AM	#4
RichConley Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bostonian in Chicago going to DC Posts: 9,908	Test the RO for phosphate, that will tell you if its the problem. I doubt it is. its most likely just innefective skimming/flow/etc. __________________ NO TANKS!!!

11/17/2006, 02:47 PM	#7
MarkD40 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 647	Wet sleeves, After putting in the phosban reactor the growth of macro slowed to such an extent that my turbo snails were able to clear it from my tank. I tried everything else, RO/DI, DSB in my 75 gallon sump, increased flow in my display, Improved lighting, refugium with chaetomorphia, many snails, lighter feedings etc, etc, etc. These measures helped but I still had a fair amount of hair and cyano I could not get rid of. My tank was not overgrown, but macro was growing in the nooks and crannies. It was only after I installed the phosban reactor that the algae disappeared. Macro algae is photosynthetric and can hang on even with relatively low nutrient levels once it gets a foothold. I still get a light coating of algae on my glass that needs to be cleaned off twice per week but that is to be expected. My refugium lights are on 24/7 and had no snails in it to eat macro, so I was growing macro algae that is not hair algae to some extent. Because I never clean the glass in the refugium the algae does build up over time and helps to further aid in nutient export. I did not mean to suggest that adding a phosban reactor will solve everyones problem, but in my case after doing everything else I could to make life unpleasent for macro I still had some. Phosban did the trick. I will probably need to bring my snails to my LFS when they eat all of the algae in my refugium. __________________ My ship came in. Unfortunately it hit a reef. Current Tank Info: 110 gallon reef display tank, fish, LPS, SPS and mushrooms. A 75 gallon sump in basement with protein skimmer, 40watt UV sterilizer, RO/DI, refugium with chaeto, phosban reactor. 40 gallon frag tank.

11/17/2006, 12:19 PM	#6
Scudd Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Largo, Florida Posts: 504	I've had good luck running the Phosban reactor. I had a problem with Cyno and some hair aglae, but after running the reactor for a one to two months it cleared up. It might be coincidence, but I dont think so...

11/17/2006, 02:59 PM	#8
WDLV Skunk Hybrid Freak Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Pasadena, MD. USA Posts: 3,003	Thanks, I appreciate the response. BTW, that's a huge sump for a 110 gallon! I should think the Snails will stay busy for a while. __________________ - Walter D. LaRoque V "The tanks go or I go." - Ex Wife

11/17/2006, 03:51 PM	#9
MarkD40 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 647	My display is 110 gallons. I have a 75 gallon sump with a 6" DSB and 100 lbs of LR suspended above the sand on eggcrate. My sump is in the dark so no algae but lots of tube worms. My refugium is a 20 gallon tank with an eggcrate bottom suspended about 4" off the bottom of the tank with the eggcrate covered with a layer of coral rubble. The area under the eggcrate acts as an undisturbed benthic zone where lots of tube worms and sponges grow and many pods live and breed. You are correct that it won't take long for the Turbos to mow down the algae in my refugium. __________________ My ship came in. Unfortunately it hit a reef. Current Tank Info: 110 gallon reef display tank, fish, LPS, SPS and mushrooms. A 75 gallon sump in basement with protein skimmer, 40watt UV sterilizer, RO/DI, refugium with chaeto, phosban reactor. 40 gallon frag tank.

11/17/2006, 08:34 PM	#10
WDLV Skunk Hybrid Freak Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Pasadena, MD. USA Posts: 3,003	MarkD40, so as not to hijack the thread.... YGPM __________________ - Walter D. LaRoque V "The tanks go or I go." - Ex Wife

11/17/2006, 09:48 PM	#11
Headreefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 5	Phosban reactor is the shizzle!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look for PURA phosphate remover.......its fine like ROWAPhos, but half the price. Finer than Phosban sized particles seem to remove more PO4 faster and last longer, you just have to adjust the inflow so that the particles barely "boil" or else they'll be released back into the sump or wherever u plumbed it. But water changes do the same thing really. I'm not sure which is more expensive salt or PO4 remover......would be interesting to try. BTW PURA also makes a nitrate remover that works so so in the phosban reactor. But when your talkin about nitrate thats a whole-nother ballgame!!