Dose Kalk with ATO?

Blazer88 · 11/18/2006, 06:03 PM

I asked this question in the general discussion section and people mentioned this has been brought up in this forum. I am wondering what would be a good method to dose Kalk with my 15 gallon auto top off container. It has a lid on it but it is NOT air tight. It was my original thought to put in a PH or two and have it mix up the water a few times a day but someone mentioned that is not a good idea. I was trying to avoid getting a Kalk reactor due to lack of space, hopefully this can work. Here is the original thread as well. Thanks in advance for any help.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=975667

Mike O'Brien · 11/18/2006, 06:09 PM

It's about that simple, just have the pump draw the liquid an inch or so up from the bottom of the reservoir. After the initial mixing you can just leave it without losing potency. Just keep the reservoir still so the crust on top of the limewater doesn't get disturbed.

Blazer88 · 11/18/2006, 06:18 PM

I just read through "The Degradation of Limewater in Air" which really helped. It seems that I was given bad information when I was told it will negatively react with the air since my container is not air tight.

My questions are:
-Does the container need to have an extra mixing pump? I saw that reactors do so I made the assumption this type of setup would.

-If an internal pump isn't needed, do I just mix the Kalk solution before I put it into my container?

-If a pump is needed, do I just add the RO (say five gallons) and add how many ever tablespoons of Kalk and let the pump mix it up?

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

Mike O'Brien · 11/18/2006, 06:21 PM

you don't need a pump, just mix it once and leave it. I prefer to drip constantly rather than every now and then with the ATO.

Blazer88 · 11/18/2006, 06:39 PM

I don't really have any method to drip it. The level in my tank stays constant with my ATO so a little water is added throughout the day. So I just mix up, say 15 gallons, at one and leave it in the ATO until it's empty? Seems easy enough if that's the case. Any ballpark figure of how much Kalk to use per gallon of RO? It takes about two weeks to go through 15 gallons of RO; I only have a few pieces of SPS and LPS that would consume the calcium.

Billybeau1 · 11/18/2006, 06:43 PM

You'll want to make sure your ATO does not dump too much in at one time. Raising pH that fast is not good. You could start with say 1 tsp per gallon and see how it goes. Once mixed initially, it does not need to be remixed as the impurities settle to the bottom and stay out of your tank.

Mike O'Brien · 11/18/2006, 06:58 PM

I use an aqualifter pump and a John Guest ball valve. Less than $20 for the whole setup and I've been using it for over 4 year's.

jag1979 · 11/18/2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Any ballpark figure of how much Kalk to use per gallon of RO?

normally b/n 1 and 2 teaspoons per gallon. Monitor your PH and make sure its not swinging too much. Start w/ 1 teaspoon per gallon and test calcium, alk, and ph...then go from there.

jag1979 · 11/18/2006, 09:03 PM

what kind of ato do you have? Is it a slow drip via a paristalic pump or is it from a normal powerhead?

Blazer88 · 11/19/2006, 11:19 AM

It's from a MJ400 hooked to dual float switches in my sump. It maintains a constant level in my sump so it adds a little bit of water frequently. I don't think that would swing my PH by much each time it adds water. I dose my KH buffer this way and it seems ok. The test kits I have are complete crap so I'm going to order some Salifert tests before I start with the Kalk to monitor the results. I have a PinPoint PH meter which my wife calibrated at her lab, so I'm good there. I'll get some Kalk once my water with the buffer is out and I'll see how it goes. Thanks for the replies everyone.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 11/20/2006, 10:20 AM

The pH rises at each addition depends on the amount added. The pH rise in the tank or sump will be about 0.6 pH units or so if you add 1.25 volume percent of the tank or sump volume.

Adding 0.25% at once should be fine.

Blazer88 · 11/20/2006, 03:23 PM

I went and got some Kalk today and am making 15 gallons right now. I'm going to add one tablespoon per gallon and will monitor the results. Currenty I am at; Calcium-340, PH-8.0, and 11 KH. I'll keep an eye on the PH to see how much it goes up when the ATO kicks on. Thanks for the help everyone, I appreciate it!

Randy Holmes-Farley · 11/20/2006, 03:51 PM

FWIW, a tablespoon won't all dissolve, so expect to have some substantial solids on the bottom. 2 teaspoons per gallon of fresh water is about saturation.

Blazer88 · 11/20/2006, 03:54 PM

I should keep the powerhead an inch or so from the bottom, correct?

jag1979 · 11/20/2006, 04:31 PM

thats what I am doing...you meant 1 teaspoon instead of tablespoon, right?

Blazer88 · 11/20/2006, 04:41 PM

Doh, that would have been a problem! I didn't read the directions correctly, I made 15 gallons of water with 15 tablespoons. Since 3 teaspoons equal one tablespoon, I'm going to pull out 10 gallons of the water I mixed up and replace it with RO, that should work.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 11/20/2006, 07:31 PM

Excess undissolved solids will just sit on the bottom and not hurt anything, once you allow it to settle out.

11/18/2006, 06:03 PM	#1
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	Dose Kalk with ATO? I asked this question in the general discussion section and people mentioned this has been brought up in this forum. I am wondering what would be a good method to dose Kalk with my 15 gallon auto top off container. It has a lid on it but it is NOT air tight. It was my original thought to put in a PH or two and have it mix up the water a few times a day but someone mentioned that is not a good idea. I was trying to avoid getting a Kalk reactor due to lack of space, hopefully this can work. Here is the original thread as well. Thanks in advance for any help. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=975667

11/18/2006, 09:03 PM	#9
jag1979 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 982	what kind of ato do you have? Is it a slow drip via a paristalic pump or is it from a normal powerhead? __________________ clowns, bi-color pseudo, coral beauty, yellow tang GBTA, crocea clam xenia, various polyps/zoa's, candy cane, tree leather, frogspawn, torch, various mushrooms, green/red plate, birdsnest Current Tank Info: 180 AGA, tunze 6100, 6025 and 6060, 3 x 250 mh's, 3 x 80 t5's, ASM G4+

11/20/2006, 10:20 AM	#11
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	The pH rises at each addition depends on the amount added. The pH rise in the tank or sump will be about 0.6 pH units or so if you add 1.25 volume percent of the tank or sump volume. Adding 0.25% at once should be fine. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

11/20/2006, 03:51 PM	#13
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	FWIW, a tablespoon won't all dissolve, so expect to have some substantial solids on the bottom. 2 teaspoons per gallon of fresh water is about saturation. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

11/20/2006, 04:31 PM	#15
jag1979 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 982	thats what I am doing...you meant 1 teaspoon instead of tablespoon, right? __________________ clowns, bi-color pseudo, coral beauty, yellow tang GBTA, crocea clam xenia, various polyps/zoa's, candy cane, tree leather, frogspawn, torch, various mushrooms, green/red plate, birdsnest Current Tank Info: 180 AGA, tunze 6100, 6025 and 6060, 3 x 250 mh's, 3 x 80 t5's, ASM G4+

11/18/2006, 06:09 PM	#2
Mike O'Brien Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,356	It's about that simple, just have the pump draw the liquid an inch or so up from the bottom of the reservoir. After the initial mixing you can just leave it without losing potency. Just keep the reservoir still so the crust on top of the limewater doesn't get disturbed.

11/18/2006, 06:18 PM	#3
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	I just read through "The Degradation of Limewater in Air" which really helped. It seems that I was given bad information when I was told it will negatively react with the air since my container is not air tight. My questions are: -Does the container need to have an extra mixing pump? I saw that reactors do so I made the assumption this type of setup would. -If an internal pump isn't needed, do I just mix the Kalk solution before I put it into my container? -If a pump is needed, do I just add the RO (say five gallons) and add how many ever tablespoons of Kalk and let the pump mix it up? Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

11/18/2006, 06:21 PM	#4
Mike O'Brien Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,356	you don't need a pump, just mix it once and leave it. I prefer to drip constantly rather than every now and then with the ATO.

11/18/2006, 06:39 PM	#5
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	I don't really have any method to drip it. The level in my tank stays constant with my ATO so a little water is added throughout the day. So I just mix up, say 15 gallons, at one and leave it in the ATO until it's empty? Seems easy enough if that's the case. Any ballpark figure of how much Kalk to use per gallon of RO? It takes about two weeks to go through 15 gallons of RO; I only have a few pieces of SPS and LPS that would consume the calcium.

11/18/2006, 06:43 PM	#6
Billybeau1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dyer, Indiana Posts: 12,010	You'll want to make sure your ATO does not dump too much in at one time. Raising pH that fast is not good. You could start with say 1 tsp per gallon and see how it goes. Once mixed initially, it does not need to be remixed as the impurities settle to the bottom and stay out of your tank.

11/18/2006, 06:58 PM	#7
Mike O'Brien Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,356	I use an aqualifter pump and a John Guest ball valve. Less than $20 for the whole setup and I've been using it for over 4 year's.

11/19/2006, 11:19 AM	#10
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	It's from a MJ400 hooked to dual float switches in my sump. It maintains a constant level in my sump so it adds a little bit of water frequently. I don't think that would swing my PH by much each time it adds water. I dose my KH buffer this way and it seems ok. The test kits I have are complete crap so I'm going to order some Salifert tests before I start with the Kalk to monitor the results. I have a PinPoint PH meter which my wife calibrated at her lab, so I'm good there. I'll get some Kalk once my water with the buffer is out and I'll see how it goes. Thanks for the replies everyone.

11/20/2006, 03:23 PM	#12
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	I went and got some Kalk today and am making 15 gallons right now. I'm going to add one tablespoon per gallon and will monitor the results. Currenty I am at; Calcium-340, PH-8.0, and 11 KH. I'll keep an eye on the PH to see how much it goes up when the ATO kicks on. Thanks for the help everyone, I appreciate it!

11/20/2006, 03:54 PM	#14
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	I should keep the powerhead an inch or so from the bottom, correct?

11/20/2006, 04:41 PM	#16
Blazer88 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,415	Doh, that would have been a problem! I didn't read the directions correctly, I made 15 gallons of water with 15 tablespoons. Since 3 teaspoons equal one tablespoon, I'm going to pull out 10 gallons of the water I mixed up and replace it with RO, that should work.

11/20/2006, 07:31 PM	#17
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Excess undissolved solids will just sit on the bottom and not hurt anything, once you allow it to settle out. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef