sand or bare bottom?

monsaas · 11/19/2006, 03:58 PM

I have heard different opions on have live sand on the bottom of tanks and not to have it at all (bare bottom) I am in the process of setting up a 24g AP with 30lbs of LR but i am undecided to have sand or not to have it. What is your choice and why? I heard sand can become bad as time goes by. I also heard no sand will also be a problem in the future. I seen both ways be very successful so its up in the air for me.
Give me your thoughts
Thanks

Andrew · 11/19/2006, 04:00 PM

I went BB so I could increase my flow and it's alot easier to clean and maintain.

CPT. MURPHY · 11/19/2006, 04:19 PM

I have a SSB in my tank strictly because I like the natural look.

CPT.

TekCat · 11/19/2006, 04:42 PM

Check out An Introduction to Substrate Choices thread.

...from my personal experience (not extensive by any means):
I've had DSB. But didn't stock it properly with life, so it went bad on me. This was my fault. What I've learned is that for small tank it is very hard to maintain sand bed fauna required for functioning and healthy DSB.
I didn't like bare bottom because of the looks, and the fact that you need to have vigorous water flow so detrius is not settling down. With that high water flow you're pretty much going to do SPS only tank, because soft corals, and some LPS dont like that much water flow. Otherwise you'd be siphoning settled detrius from bare bottom daily.
So, the compromise for me was SSB 1.5" - 2" of sand. It looked to me prettier, and it could support sand fauna to eat detrius and other junk naturally.

hth

jpitch · 11/19/2006, 05:25 PM

I went DSB back in January with my first reef setup. There was a big following that said if you went 4"+ it would help with denitrification. Additionally, I have a Melanurus Wrasse and Diamond Watchmen Goby so the sand bed was needed. However, I just received my November aquarium magazine and they flat out discredited the DSB philosphy. They weren't even on the fence about it, claiming the benefits were non-existant. I'm not sure what I'm going to do...

weaselslucks · 11/19/2006, 05:38 PM

my sand bed is by no means deep but its not shallow either.I personaly dont like bare bottom tanks because its not natural even my clowns like to move sand around not to mention the bugs and spagetti worms. I could just stare at my sand bed and be entertained.micro stars and snails and ofcourse my 40 dollar pistol shrimp. i thinks everyone would be happier to dig and play in the sand

Swanwillow · 11/19/2006, 05:59 PM

mines.. well, theres sand, just cause I couldn't get it all out

my tube anemone is in a tube that hold sand, and I like it that way...

now I gotta increasde the flow.

dfleary · 11/19/2006, 06:40 PM

I've just set up my tank, it's cycled and I've started doing water changes. I like the look of the sandbed (about 1.5") overall, but if I see nitrates rising for no reason, I'm going to suspect the sand bed sooner than later. (I won't hesitate to reduce it to .5" overall if necessary.)

Dan9 · 11/19/2006, 06:46 PM

Personally, I like the look of a sandbed. I always like the natural look and would never have bare bottom for that reason alone.

Dr.FuManchu · 11/20/2006, 10:17 AM

I have a Limstone slab as my bottom. Much easier to keep clean and it doesnt become a Nitrate/Detritus trap. Water stays perfect and clear. Corals are all doing awesome. The limestone is becoming live.

saltman123 · 11/20/2006, 11:19 AM

PUT SAND!

Your tank will look much more natural and like a real reef. The critters also love it.

dbrann11 · 11/20/2006, 11:33 AM

I read the same article as jpitch... i was all ready to go DSB with a hypoxic water zone and that article basically said don't or you'll regret it eventually. Might be 6 months or it might be 6 years but there will be problems. Apparently phosphate build up is the real concern. Now I'm up in the air again. either 1-2" of aragonite of 1-2" of more coarse crushed coral, which is what the article reccomended.

TekCat · 11/20/2006, 12:04 PM

there is a consensus that crushed coral is bad for you, actually it is bad for the tank, because detrius gets trapped easily in coarse substrate and rots there. Use plain ole aragonite sand and bee happy

As far as DSB goes you could setup remote DSB that could be plugged/unplugged every couple of years.

dbrann11 · 11/20/2006, 12:23 PM

And that is my concern with the article. I even use sand in my FW stuff, though crushed coral with my africans, might go to aragonite. Anyway, they are recommending larger particle substrate as 'better' than sand. The concensus is to the contrary, so how valid is the article over all? has anyone experienced a DSB related tank crash or algal outbreak?

TekCat · 11/20/2006, 01:20 PM

Yes, I've had a DSB algal outbreak. The problem was that DSB need to have big and healthy sand infauna to process detrius naturally (because you can't physically disturb the sand bed). In my case I didnt have enough sand detrivores and other exotic creatures in needed numbers so junk was accumulating in my DSB. Endresult I tore the tank down, and now I am shallow sand bed happy camper. In the future I might experiment with RDSB where there are no need for sand bed fauna.

techigirl78 · 11/20/2006, 01:40 PM

I like having SSB mainly because I like sand loving creatures such as pistol shrimps/gobies, wrasses, jawfish, etc. If I didn't want to keep those critters, I'd probably go bare bottom.

derricksoldit · 11/20/2006, 03:13 PM

I enjoy a 1.5 - 2 inch sand bed. I purchased a Sand Sifting Gobie which keeps the sand bed clean.

dippin61 · 11/20/2006, 05:20 PM

ill never go back to sand again.. EVER

i enjoy having complete control over my system.

hulley · 11/20/2006, 05:57 PM

I went BB after my tank crashed last december! I cooked my rocks, got rid of the 4" sand bed and started over completly and have never been happier! Since march, I've not had one bit of hair algae, diatoms or any other nasty crap in my tank! I actually enjoy this hobby much more now! I would try BB for awhile, you can always add sand later if you dont like. Its much harder to remove sand if you want to try that route!

Dr.FuManchu · 11/21/2006, 01:43 PM

BB or some kind of false bottom. Sand= PITA

blackheart · 11/21/2006, 02:33 PM

you can always do a remote sand bed in the refugium if you would like the best of both worlds

Shagsbeard · 11/21/2006, 03:55 PM

I'm probably going to go with live rock rubble on my next tank... pretty much the idea of a bare bottom, but with smaller chunks of live rock littering the bottom.

11/19/2006, 03:58 PM	#1
monsaas Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 81	sand or bare bottom? I have heard different opions on have live sand on the bottom of tanks and not to have it at all (bare bottom) I am in the process of setting up a 24g AP with 30lbs of LR but i am undecided to have sand or not to have it. What is your choice and why? I heard sand can become bad as time goes by. I also heard no sand will also be a problem in the future. I seen both ways be very successful so its up in the air for me. Give me your thoughts Thanks

11/19/2006, 05:59 PM	#7
Swanwillow goby girl Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bemidji MN Posts: 2,025	mines.. well, theres sand, just cause I couldn't get it all out my tube anemone is in a tube that hold sand, and I like it that way... now I gotta increasde the flow. __________________ my advice:walk away. do nothing. til tomorrow. if its still alive, it will hopefully be fine. If you do not see it, do not try to find it. it may be hiding. just LEAVE it alone Current Tank Info: starting over! 125 gallon. Soon to be home to Blackfoot clowns, A. nigripes

11/19/2006, 06:40 PM	#8
dfleary Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: NC Posts: 205	I've just set up my tank, it's cycled and I've started doing water changes. I like the look of the sandbed (about 1.5") overall, but if I see nitrates rising for no reason, I'm going to suspect the sand bed sooner than later. (I won't hesitate to reduce it to .5" overall if necessary.) __________________ D. Leary, Smithfield, NC Current Tank Info: 120 Gal. Marine

11/19/2006, 06:46 PM	#9
Dan9 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Williamsville, NY Posts: 392	Personally, I like the look of a sandbed. I always like the natural look and would never have bare bottom for that reason alone. __________________ Dan

11/20/2006, 11:19 AM	#11
saltman123 Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: CT Posts: 1,048	PUT SAND! Your tank will look much more natural and like a real reef. The critters also love it. __________________ 12 Gallon Aquapod. 4 Gallon Pico-Coming Soon Current Tank Info: 12 Gallon Aquapod

11/19/2006, 04:00 PM	#2
Andrew Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 13,640	I went BB so I could increase my flow and it's alot easier to clean and maintain.

11/19/2006, 04:19 PM	#3
CPT. MURPHY Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 1,148	I have a SSB in my tank strictly because I like the natural look. CPT.

11/19/2006, 04:42 PM	#4
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	Check out An Introduction to Substrate Choices thread. ...from my personal experience (not extensive by any means): I've had DSB. But didn't stock it properly with life, so it went bad on me. This was my fault. What I've learned is that for small tank it is very hard to maintain sand bed fauna required for functioning and healthy DSB. I didn't like bare bottom because of the looks, and the fact that you need to have vigorous water flow so detrius is not settling down. With that high water flow you're pretty much going to do SPS only tank, because soft corals, and some LPS dont like that much water flow. Otherwise you'd be siphoning settled detrius from bare bottom daily. So, the compromise for me was SSB 1.5" - 2" of sand. It looked to me prettier, and it could support sand fauna to eat detrius and other junk naturally. hth

11/19/2006, 05:25 PM	#5
jpitch Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Middle Island, NY Posts: 908	I went DSB back in January with my first reef setup. There was a big following that said if you went 4"+ it would help with denitrification. Additionally, I have a Melanurus Wrasse and Diamond Watchmen Goby so the sand bed was needed. However, I just received my November aquarium magazine and they flat out discredited the DSB philosphy. They weren't even on the fence about it, claiming the benefits were non-existant. I'm not sure what I'm going to do...

11/19/2006, 05:38 PM	#6
weaselslucks Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Oxford,Ct Posts: 1,393	my sand bed is by no means deep but its not shallow either.I personaly dont like bare bottom tanks because its not natural even my clowns like to move sand around not to mention the bugs and spagetti worms. I could just stare at my sand bed and be entertained.micro stars and snails and ofcourse my 40 dollar pistol shrimp. i thinks everyone would be happier to dig and play in the sand

11/20/2006, 10:17 AM	#10
Dr.FuManchu Moved On Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 257	I have a Limstone slab as my bottom. Much easier to keep clean and it doesnt become a Nitrate/Detritus trap. Water stays perfect and clear. Corals are all doing awesome. The limestone is becoming live.

11/20/2006, 11:33 AM	#12
dbrann11 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brooklyn, CT Posts: 102	I read the same article as jpitch... i was all ready to go DSB with a hypoxic water zone and that article basically said don't or you'll regret it eventually. Might be 6 months or it might be 6 years but there will be problems. Apparently phosphate build up is the real concern. Now I'm up in the air again. either 1-2" of aragonite of 1-2" of more coarse crushed coral, which is what the article reccomended.

11/20/2006, 12:04 PM	#13
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	there is a consensus that crushed coral is bad for you, actually it is bad for the tank, because detrius gets trapped easily in coarse substrate and rots there. Use plain ole aragonite sand and bee happy As far as DSB goes you could setup remote DSB that could be plugged/unplugged every couple of years.

11/20/2006, 12:23 PM	#14
dbrann11 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brooklyn, CT Posts: 102	And that is my concern with the article. I even use sand in my FW stuff, though crushed coral with my africans, might go to aragonite. Anyway, they are recommending larger particle substrate as 'better' than sand. The concensus is to the contrary, so how valid is the article over all? has anyone experienced a DSB related tank crash or algal outbreak?

11/20/2006, 01:20 PM	#15
TekCat Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: MN Posts: 3,130	Yes, I've had a DSB algal outbreak. The problem was that DSB need to have big and healthy sand infauna to process detrius naturally (because you can't physically disturb the sand bed). In my case I didnt have enough sand detrivores and other exotic creatures in needed numbers so junk was accumulating in my DSB. Endresult I tore the tank down, and now I am shallow sand bed happy camper. In the future I might experiment with RDSB where there are no need for sand bed fauna.

11/20/2006, 01:40 PM	#16
techigirl78 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,739	I like having SSB mainly because I like sand loving creatures such as pistol shrimps/gobies, wrasses, jawfish, etc. If I didn't want to keep those critters, I'd probably go bare bottom.

11/20/2006, 03:13 PM	#17
derricksoldit Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie Florida Posts: 51	I enjoy a 1.5 - 2 inch sand bed. I purchased a Sand Sifting Gobie which keeps the sand bed clean. __________________ I love cats, I just cant finish a whole one! Current Tank Info: 75 Gallon all glass, T5 lights overdriven with Icecap 660, 30 gallon sump, AETECH Reef devil delux skimmer.

11/20/2006, 05:20 PM	#18
dippin61 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,897	ill never go back to sand again.. EVER i enjoy having complete control over my system. __________________ Reefers Law: It can take about 48 hours to brown, and 48 weeks to color back up! Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon BB Low Iron Glass, Dual 110w VHO Actinics, 250w PFO MH 20k XM

11/20/2006, 05:57 PM	#19
hulley Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: In front of my computor. Posts: 592	I went BB after my tank crashed last december! I cooked my rocks, got rid of the 4" sand bed and started over completly and have never been happier! Since march, I've not had one bit of hair algae, diatoms or any other nasty crap in my tank! I actually enjoy this hobby much more now! I would try BB for awhile, you can always add sand later if you dont like. Its much harder to remove sand if you want to try that route!

11/21/2006, 01:43 PM	#20
Dr.FuManchu Moved On Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 257	BB or some kind of false bottom. Sand= PITA

11/21/2006, 02:33 PM	#21
blackheart Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Daytona Beach Posts: 892	you can always do a remote sand bed in the refugium if you would like the best of both worlds __________________ I have been cycling my tank for a month now with 75lbs of live rock when do I add the salt???? click the red house to see pics of my old tank....the better pics are at the bottom :D Current Tank Info: Back to the drawing board!!

11/21/2006, 03:55 PM	#22
Shagsbeard Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 2,143	I'm probably going to go with live rock rubble on my next tank... pretty much the idea of a bare bottom, but with smaller chunks of live rock littering the bottom.